kuro68k wrote: » The British government is going to take it right to the cliff edge and hope that someone else compromises. Of course they have their excuses already lined up if no-one does, only real question is who they will blame.
Tell me how wrote: » Yes. On a weekend marking the memorial ceremonies of the end of WW1 it is very troubling when we look around to who we would have considered strong players on the world stage. The examples of the political sphere in both the UK and America over the last 2 years is worrying when they played such a part in defending our way of life in recent times.
Sam Russell wrote: » I think a trip by ardent Brexiteers to these hundreds of graveyards, all manicured and well kept, with row upon row of white gravestones, each bearing the name of the soldier buried there (where the name is known). If you pass such a graveyard every day, you could not forget those that died so needlessly. How could you? We know how important a non-existent border is fir NI, so that those who look South see no border, and those that look East see no border. How blinkered are the Brexiteers that cannot see these things?
Sam Russell wrote: » Given the day that is in it, it would make sense for all parties to put in the forefront of their minds just what the founding of the EU was all about. In 1945, there was devastation in Europe, with people starving, and roads filled with destitute hoards shuffling along carrying or pushing in prams their world possessions, dragging tiny children. The pictures would draw tears from a stone. Berlin was subject to a blockade such that the 'allies' had to opperate an airlift of huge logistical demands, where aircraft were flying in more frequently that a busy train service with arrivals every 90 seconds. The founders of the EU wanted to provide a deep economic environment within Europe, between previous enemies, such that war would be unthinkable. In that they have basically succeeded. Brexit flies in the face of this. I think because the Brexiteers are not familiar with the graveyards of Northern France, or Flanders. They are not familiar with Ypres where there is a daily commemoration of the war dead, and the Last Post is played every day of the year. I think a trip by ardent Brexiteers to these hundreds of graveyards, all manicured and well kept, with row upon row of white gravestones, each bearing the name of the soldier buried there (where the name is known). If you pass such a graveyard every day, you could not forget those that died so needlessly. How could you? We know how important a non-existent border is fir NI, so that those who look South see no border, and those that look East see no border. How blinkered are the Brexiteers that cannot see these things?
Anthracite wrote: » They would look at those graves as evidence of how great the UK is, be overwhelmed with national pride, and underline their certitude that they must never be anything other than completely independent of others.
RobMc59 wrote: » It's not just the UK remembering the fallen today-all the nations involved are showing their respect for their own today-nothing wrong with that.
ArmaniJeanss wrote: » No they aren't independent (in Akrasias post/suggestion #3367), as the second vote only becomes relevant/counted in the event that the first ballot is rejected. In order to get your first choice counted (whether that's Remain or Crash Out) you have to initially reject your likely second preference of 'accept deal'. Thats the opposite of independent.
Anthracite wrote: » Well there kind of is - don't people in the UK publicly claim that the poppy commemorates everyone?
Capt'n Midnight wrote: » None of those will get over 50% So most of the voters will be dissatisfied Also needs clarification on exactly what May's deal is. There are some calling for another option. 4. Resume negotiations Completely missing the points that Article 50 only allows an extension if everyone agrees, and why would the EU even consider this until the deal with the UK is almost complete. And it not nearly complete as the UK still doesn't look like it can past it's own red lines.
RobMc59 wrote: » Yes-It remembers all the fallen soldiers regardless of nation.
charlie14 wrote: » The examples of the political sphere in both the UK and America have their roots going back more than 2 years imo. UKIP and the Tea Party are examples of where lunatic fringes of political parties can lead by heads being buried in sand so as not to rock the boat giving them oxygen. Give any fire enough oxygen and you run the very real risk that it will devour you.
Professor Moriarty wrote: » The majority of leading Brexiteers are members of a cosseted elite. The poppy on their lapel symbolises other families' sacrifices. Siegfried Sassoon's poem Base Details springs to mind.
Anthracite wrote: » So just thinking of the soldiers from your own nation rather defeats the purpose, I would suggest.
10000maniacs wrote: » Yeah true. Incidentally, the Brothers Johnson are two sides of the same coin. Both equally unconcerned about the big picture but about what can they do to get people talking about them in tomorrows headlines. Their father is the same, He was on Sky News two weeks ago and his advice on the Irish situation was "If the Irish want to shoot each other they will shoot each other whether there is a hard border or not". A toxic and dangerous family IMO.
Tell me how wrote: » I'm not sure in the case of Jo that he was looking for headlines. He spoke about another referendum, not that May had failed and they needed a strong leader i.e. my brother. Question Time on BBC is an interesting insight in to the national psyche in relation to Brexit. The majority seem to think it should happen for 2 reasons; they voted to leave, or they think the democratic vote must be upheld. I know the BBC is accused of being partisan in this matter but I don't see how they could select pro-Brexit people to the audience so frequently unless they do make up this significant portion of the person on the street.
Tell me how wrote: » Agree but you have to allow enough space for the extremists to put their ideas out there so they can be judged objectively. We are potentially on the cusp of our GOP/Brexit turmoil with Peter Casey. Shutting him down entirely as some on the outer left want to do is only ensuring that those on the outer right rally to his cause. Brexit has shown just how open to being manipulated a population can be when the establishment don't acknowledge the risk and deal with it appropriately but openly.
Tell me how wrote: » I'm not sure in the case of Jo that he was looking for headlines. He spoke about another referendum, not that May had failed and they needed a strong leader i.e. my brother.
10000maniacs wrote: » Yeah but you have to ask (well I do anyway) what was the real motivation behind his resignation? The other end of a two pronged attack by the Brothers to remove Theresa May? It's all about power and leadership with the brothers. I mean Boris tossed a coin to choose which side he was on in the referendum. It's just a big game of soldiers with Boris. They don't care about the consequences and have the family funds to weather any storm and be flush and dandy in any scenario.
RobMc59 wrote: » Let's see...Jo resigns as he believes that Brexit is a disaster and urges people to push for a 2nd referendum and still gets criticism-would it really hurt to say-"you know what-good on him-lets hope more MPs do the same".But that would be praise and that is a no-no...
trellheim wrote: » Right I predict the next couple of days will be fairly high-drama stuff. Its fairly stark right now. Unless someone gives in, we are doing the Hard Brexit and a walled-off six counties on March 30 2019 I remind everyone there is still NO DEAL and the UK is currently on course to crash out without one on Brexit day.
Sam Russell wrote: » Given the day that is in it, it would make sense for all parties to put in the forefront of their minds just what the founding of the EU was all about. ... I think a trip by ardent Brexiteers to these hundreds of graveyards, all manicured and well kept, with row upon row of white gravestones, each bearing the name of the soldier buried there (where the name is known). If you pass such a graveyard every day, you could not forget those that died so needlessly. How could you?
Beechwoodspark wrote: » “Walled off six counties”?
Strazdas wrote: » I would say a good 40-45% of the British population are Brexiteers. It's an interesting one. They have been brainwashed into hating the EU by their politicians and media and cannot abandon the ideology, not even when Brexit is falling to pieces in front of their eyes and being exposed as a con job.
CelticRambler wrote: » No, nothing wrong with that. Funny, though, how so many world leaders - even the rain-shy Trump - decided to mark the event together. But not Theresa. Britain doing its own thing on its own island again.
fly_agaric wrote: » Sounds overly dramatic in the short term, but if UK continues down the road the Conservatives seem to be explicitly setting out on (ultra low tax and minimal regulation renegade operating outside the Single Market, customs union etc) it will possibly come down to that. Other option IMO in that scenario is that Ireland will be forced out of EU itself eventually.
