kuro68k wrote: » The British government is going to take it right to the cliff edge and hope that someone else compromises. Of course they have their excuses already lined up if no-one does, only real question is who they will blame.
listermint wrote: » Breaking news is a trash website. Any reports on it should be questioned throughly and other sources found. Terrible website.
PeadarCo wrote: » Why is it surprising? He has never been a fan of the EU. Had he got behind the remain campaign the referendum might have gone the other way. He's has a the hard left background who are notoriously bad at comprising. He just wants to be in power and to hell with the people who vote for him. It's what you would expect from an idelogue. He will just blame the Tory's. In the indo during the week John Bruton made the point that the 6 Labour tests are impossible to meet. They are an excuse to vote against any deal that is arrived at if that's what Corby wants.
Spook_ie wrote: » Which would you prefer out of Irish Examinerhttps://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/artists-and-intellectuals-call-for-a-european-republic-884560.html ZDF Todayhttps://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/heute/european-balcony-project-ausrufung-der-europaeischen-republik-100.html Washington Posthttps://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/artists-intellectuals-call-for-european-republic/2018/11/10/8b131ebc-e4e9-11e8-ba30-a7ded04d8fac_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.da04bf5925eb Irish Timeshttps://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-we-should-be-concerned-about-germany-s-political-situation-1.3692262 La Republicahttps://video.repubblica.it/mondo/european-balcony-project-sui-balconi-delle-citta-si-proclamera-la-repubblica-europea/318953/319582 And many others Pretty sure they can't all be trash, maybe you just think that they're trash because they publish something you don't agree with, but I suppose that's democracy for you.
judeboy101 wrote: » "Referendums are the antithesis of democracy." I'll tell that to all the gay people who can now marry or the women who can now access safe abortions.
PeadarCo wrote: » He will just blame the Tory's. In the indo during the week John Bruton made the point that the 6 Labour tests are impossible to meet. They are an excuse to vote against any deal that is arrived at if that's what Corby wants.
ArmaniJeanss wrote: » Not at all, they are perfectly reasonable and easily achievable conditions, in a certain light. That light being a time when high ranking Brexiteers used phrases like 'they need us more than we need them', 'easiest trade deal in history', 'first port of call will be Berlin, not Brussels', 'queueing up to do deals with us'. Starmer set those 6 tests in that environment, so Brexiteers can hardly complain now that the tests are unfair. Also worth pointing out that those tests stop Corbyn voting for the likely deal, so well played by Starmer all round.
MrMusician18 wrote: » Would you have said the same about the 1983 referendum? It's easy to think referendums are great when the result goes your way.
Spook_ie wrote: » https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/artists-and-intellectuals-call-for-a-european-republic-884560.html Not exactly going to go down well with anyone disagreeing about a United States of Europe, like a lot of Brexiteers.
Enzokk wrote: » Sorry, I must have missed where the EU bureaucrats were calling for a European Republic. Or where the EU Commission or EU Parliament is calling for it. Personally I don't see Hungary willingly giving up the power their leader had fought hard in obtaining and giving it up to the EU. Poland may be a problem as well and then we have Italy as well, so I don't think anyone will take this as something that is serious.
EdgeCase wrote: » There's also a line being pushed in the UK that the Brexit referendum was somehow an exercise in democracy that can never be repeated again under any circumstances, including when the information that people were working with were largely discovered to be a be a pack of lies. Circumstances change, and in this case they've changed *very* quickly due to the way the original referendum was carried out : in a fact-free vacuum.
MrMusician18 wrote: » EdgeCase wrote: » There's also a line being pushed in the UK that the Brexit referendum was somehow an exercise in democracy that can never be repeated again under any circumstances, including when the information that people were working with were largely discovered to be a be a pack of lies. Circumstances change, and in this case they've changed *very* quickly due to the way the original referendum was carried out : in a fact-free vacuum. The truth is the referendum is a poor tool when it comes to optimal decision making. The electorate is making a choice with a mix of factual, fabricated and partial information, so how can it?
[Deleted User] wrote: » Without the GFA we might still have a territorial claim on the north - would the back a members territorial claim against a leaving UK?
10000maniacs wrote: » If you ask 100 voters what was the reasoning behind their vote, you might get 100 different answers depending on the question.This is at best crude and in the case of the Brexit vote dangerous. When you are tweaking one simple item in the constitution, you might get lucky and the will of the people might be satisfied, but even in Irelands last three referenda, a large proportion of voters were not voting on the question asked but on their own built in biases or ignorance. This makes the result of any referendum undemocratic IMO. The tighter the result the more undemocratic it is.
J Mysterio wrote: For me the biggest issue - what annoys me the most - is the lack of a fair, unbiased and professional referendum commission.
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » Well, they created the mess. May could still get a deal through with support of Labour MPs who are very sensitive to any notion of No Deal.
ilovesmybrick wrote: » That is a major issue. We have had many, many contentious referenda, with a lot of bull**** from both sides, but the referendum commission always does a pretty good job of laying out the basic premise and results of each choice. We have a lot of failings in our political system, a hell of a lot, but there is something to be said about the almost reverence we take to handling the constitution properly.
Strazdas wrote: » I think it's very unlikely. Even Conservative Remainers like Dominic Grieve and Jo Johnson and former Tory MP Mathew Parris are pointing out that May's customs union plan is pretty disastrous for the UK. The idea that Labour MPs would attach their names to it and have it on their CV from now on doesn't seem plausible.
Tell me how wrote: » Would they rather put their name to a No Deal scenario? Maybe they would given that they are not negotiating but I wouldn't be sure. Surely they might try to make the best of a bad situation at that point. Time is rapidly running out.
Strazdas wrote: » I take your point but the current crisis / fiasco is 100% a Tory one caused by May's numerous red lines. Any Labour MP would have to think long and hard before getting involved with anything to do with May.
Strazdas wrote: » It doesn't necessarily follow either that the deal being defeated in the HoC would lead to No Deal. It might be the thing that leads instead to the fall of May or a general election or a second referendum or some other dramatic outcome. They might be prepared to go for this and see what happens.
Tell me how wrote: » It seems that many members of the public in the uK are simply of the view that the delay in a deal is the fault of the EU. They don't understand why they don't just leave. If someone tells them that there is a deal but their local Labour mp is going against the will of the people in the 2016 referendum, they won't stop to query why. They will see them as obstructing Brexit. Time is running out. They do not now have time to replace May and/or have a GE before the 29th of March. (maybe they could do the former but given that the purpose of getting rid of her would be to replace the deal which she is negotiating, they would still run out of time) They cannot just say "Sorry lads, we're not wuite ready, give us another 6 months." They either sign up to a deal with a transition period or they go with none.
Strazdas wrote: » Well even Tory Remainers like Dominic Grieve and Jo Johnson are urging MPs not to vote for May's deal, so they must clearly be of the opinion that things are still salvageable, even though it's a high risk strategy.
