kuro68k wrote: » The British government is going to take it right to the cliff edge and hope that someone else compromises. Of course they have their excuses already lined up if no-one does, only real question is who they will blame.
Water John wrote: » Johnson's resignation letter is savage. Always be wary of the quiet ones, this may ignite something.
bilston wrote: » Laura Kunessberg suggesting several of May's cabinet share similar concerns to Jo Johnson. Could Johnson be the first of many?
Anthracite wrote: » If the wheels come off at this stage, it has to be a crash-out Brexit (failing some sort of deux ex machina intervention by >somebody>< in the HoC).
Strazdas wrote: » Not necessarily. Even if Parliament votes down the deal, it might decide to then take control of the Brexit process (by saying that May and the Tories are simply not up to the job and are incapable of taking the UK out of the EU) and it's anyone's guess what could happen in that scenario.
bilston wrote: » sink wrote: » This is a very interesting article to illuminate the DUP's game plan.https://unionistvoice.com/politics/exclusive-the-dups-blueprint-for-bringing-down-the-prime-minister-and-saving-the-union/ It's a big gamble. There is no guarantee that the ERG wing would win the leadership competition. The Tory party members vote only on the two candidates with the most support from the parliamentary party and the ERG is a small minority. There is a chance none of them will make it on to the ballot because they have little support from the rest of their colleagues. I noticed an earlier tweet by Bryson (the author of the piece above), basically along the lines of Loyalists will not accept an Irish Sea Border, frankly it sounded like a not particularly subtle threat.
sink wrote: » This is a very interesting article to illuminate the DUP's game plan.https://unionistvoice.com/politics/exclusive-the-dups-blueprint-for-bringing-down-the-prime-minister-and-saving-the-union/ It's a big gamble. There is no guarantee that the ERG wing would win the leadership competition. The Tory party members vote only on the two candidates with the most support from the parliamentary party and the ERG is a small minority. There is a chance none of them will make it on to the ballot because they have little support from the rest of their colleagues.
Atlantic Dawn wrote: » I'm not sure whether I'd prefer another election in the UK or another Brexit vote, purely for the craic element another election would probably be best.
prawnsambo wrote: » If the DUP plan is to get rid of May, then it's likely that they are doing that in cahoots with others in the government. Too easy to be left with their arses hanging out the window otherwise. And facing a more united Tory party as a result.
charlie14 wrote: » How that could possibly happen other than a rump of the Tory party resigning from the party and supporting a Labour government I cannot see how. Even if they did, after seeing the DUP in action, would Labour leave themselves as hostages to fortune by relying on that rump on anything other that the present mess ?
Strazdas wrote: » charlie14 wrote: » How that could possibly happen other than a rump of the Tory party resigning from the party and supporting a Labour government I cannot see how. Even if they did, after seeing the DUP in action, would Labour leave themselves as hostages to fortune by relying on that rump on anything other that the present mess ? Britain facing a No Deal would be a national emergency, on the scale of the Suez Crisis or worse. God knows what would happen but I don't think everyone would just shrug their shoulders and allow No Deal to happen. How could that even be a solution anyway? After five or six weeks of No Deal being in force, it would still be a national emergency and the UK would have to find some way back out of it.
Strazdas wrote: » Britain facing a No Deal would be a national emergency, on the scale of the Suez Crisis or worse. God knows what would happen but I don't think everyone would just shrug their shoulders and allow No Deal to happen. How could that even be a solution anyway? After five or six weeks of No Deal being in force, it would still be a national emergency and the UK would have to find some way back out of it.
bilston wrote: » Unless they get Labour onside (or at least as many Labour MPs as possible) I don't think there is really any deal the UK govt can get through the Commons. There are two solutions...a second referendum...or a general election. Given a general election may solve nothing (there is little evidence of anything other than another hung parliament with the Tories as the biggest party), a second referendum is the only thing to resolve this. I also think that a lot of Remainers like myself would be more accepting of a second vote for Brexit and that if there is another vote to leave the govt will have an easier time getting a deal agreed.
theguzman wrote: » A second vote would be anti-democratic, the British people voted for Brexit and that is exactly what they should get, a hard Brexit, it is obvious they want out and if faced with such an arrogant move of trying to get them to change their minds I could see the pendulum swinging further right and an even stronger vote for Brexit second time around. The liberals really can't accept they lost in this instance.
charlie14 wrote: » Firstly my sincere sympathies for yourself and all who voted remain with what that leave vote has caused , and while like yourself I believe the only thing to resolve this at this stage is a second referendum. But with you saying the Tories would be the largest part if it was a GE, after the mess Brexit has become I would worry that the result would be no different unless Labour get their finger out unlike last time out get off the fence and unequivocally as a party support remaining within the EU.
theguzman wrote: » bilston wrote: » Unless they get Labour onside (or at least as many Labour MPs as possible) I don't think there is really any deal the UK govt can get through the Commons. There are two solutions...a second referendum...or a general election. Given a general election may solve nothing (there is little evidence of anything other than another hung parliament with the Tories as the biggest party), a second referendum is the only thing to resolve this. I also think that a lot of Remainers like myself would be more accepting of a second vote for Brexit and that if there is another vote to leave the govt will have an easier time getting a deal agreed. A second vote would be anti-democratic, the British people voted for Brexit and that is exactly what they should get, a hard Brexit, it is obvious they want out and if faced with such an arrogant move of trying to get them to change their minds I could see the pendulum swinging further right and an even stronger vote for Brexit second time around. The liberals really can't accept they lost in this instance.
L1011 wrote: » BBC News desperately trying to report really rather mediocre growth figures (probably fudged at that) as fantastic news there.
bilston wrote: » It looks like that would require a change in the leadership of the Labour Party. The thing is the leader of the Conservatives is a Remainer at heart and the leader of the Labour Party is a Brexiteer...it's an odd thing...
Inquitus wrote: » What a load of nonsense, Democracy is about the changing flows of the electorate over time, and if over time their view has changed, they have the right to express it.
brickster69 wrote: » Inquitus wrote: » What a load of nonsense, Democracy is about the changing flows of the electorate over time, and if over time their view has changed, they have the right to express it. Rubbish, where do you stop a democratic vote? A country votes for a party in an election to serve 4 years and then two years through the term the public can request to vote again because their views have changed ? Brexit has now become much more than the UK leaving the EU now. It is the people instructing the politicians to carry out their democratic wishes. It is fundamental to democracy. Regardless of views, i would be pretty sure that the way this Government has handled this matter has broken whatever trust people had in politicians for a long long time. Quite shameful to be honest.
brickster69 wrote: » Regardless of views, i would be pretty sure that the way this Government has handled this matter has broken whatever trust people had in politicians for a long long time. Quite shameful to be honest.
