kuro68k wrote: » The British government is going to take it right to the cliff edge and hope that someone else compromises. Of course they have their excuses already lined up if no-one does, only real question is who they will blame.
Rhineshark wrote: » It would be very difficult to get RoI into the Commonwealth around a UI. NI decides to have a ref and say it passes. RoI has its referendum and say it passes. RoI (and NI?) then need a referendum regarding the Commonwealth which may be mostly symbolic but includes loyalty to the monarch of Britain and that is going to be difficult for many Irish people to swallow. What happens if *that* one fails (especially if it as seen as a sop to the DUP who have not exactly made themselves popular down here lately)? Does that then impact the choice NI made? Do we need to have a referendum on a theoretical before a border poll? "If there was a border poll for a United Ireland that passes in both NI and RoI, do you agree with this change to the Constitution to allow Ireland to join the Commonwealth?" I dunno. I think it would be a can of worms tbh.
An Ciarraioch wrote: » Can anyone here read German - apparently, a deal could be agreed within days, and Britain would only stay in the CU for an extra 12 months?https://mobil.derstandard.at/2000090881310/Brexit-Deal-in-den-naechsten-Tagen?amplified=true&__twitter_impression=true
Deleted User wrote: » I have read various comments in the UK that suggest that parliament would not allow a no deal Brexit. Has anyone elaborated how that would happen? Anything other than a no deal crash out requires agreement with the EU - how does parliament force negotiations with the EU after or outside of the current ones?
jm08 wrote: » I would hope that the thrust of any unification would be more accepting other's traditions rather than just changing everything and annoying everyone. Something such as making the 12th July a national holiday with an Orange Parade in Dublin (and elsewhere if they want to). The big thing for unionists is the monarchy (notice Arleen's favourite brooch is of the crown). They love the queen, so we are going to have to find a way to include her (or her successors) - possibly through joining the Commonwealth.
J Mysterio wrote: » Here you go: Helsinki - The EU-27 negotiations with the British Government appear to be nearing a positive conclusion. Already "in the next few days" there could be an agreement between EU negotiator Michel Barnier and his counterpart in London, it said on Thursday from circles of the European Commission on the sidelines of the election congress of the European Christian Democrats in Helsinki. According to information from the STANDARD, the agreement on the UK withdrawal from the EU on 29 March will be available next Monday, which must then be unanimously confirmed by the heads of state and government. Immediately thereafter, Prime Minister Theresa May could inform her cabinet on Tuesday about how she intends to resolve outstanding issues such as the border regime in Ireland. This problem should be solved by gaining time. Thus, the EU offers to the British that not only Northern Ireland, but the entire United Kingdom will remain in the Customs Union for at least one year longer. Ireland border should remain open Thus, a "hard line" on the Irish island would be avoided. Already a year ago, it was agreed that Britain would retain its obligations as an EU member after leaving the country for a transitional period of 21 months until the end of 2020 - also as a significant net contributor to the EU budget. Physical checks could be carried out in England. Between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland in the south as an EU member state, an open border would remain as before. In the long term, the border problem should be solved by a comprehensive free trade agreement between the EU and the UK, following the model of the EU treaty with Canada (Ceta). If the deal works out early next week, the Permanent President of the European Council, Donald Tusk, would convene a special EU summit on 25 November, on the weekend, to avoid financial market turmoil. According to STANDARD information, plans to hold it in Brussels on 17 November have since been shelved because the time is too short and Barnier is closing the deal, as mandated by the heads of government at the last summit in October should. (Thomas Mayer from Helsinki, 8.11.2018)
Rhineshark wrote: » the Commonwealth which may be mostly symbolic but includes loyalty to the monarch of Britain and that is going to be difficult for many Irish people to swallow.
MrMusician18 wrote: » Although shy on detail, as presented that would be hard for the Irish government to stomach as there is no Backstop.
blanch152 wrote: » It is impossible to judge May until a deal is or isn't done. She has kept all of the balls in the air until now, without there being a collapse of the talks, a rift in her party, losing a parliamentary majority or precipitating a general election. All being said, that is some achievement. Some on this thread have said a strong leader should have done this or that. Strong leaders create divisions. If a strong leader had taken strong decisions, they wouldn't be leader now. May has managed to get the UK to the endgame, others would not have been able to do that. For all that, her ultimate success or failure depends on whether she can deliver a deal that holds the UK together and ensures it can continue to exist and grow without suffering political convulsions. A near-impossible task, but one she actually is quite close to pulling off. She has looked weak, she has looked indecisive, she has flown kites, but all the time they have inched forward. If she falls short, and a hard Brexit remains a real possibility, the argument that they should have had a political convulsion before now wins out. However, any deal that results in an orderly Brexit, with limited damage to the UK or the EU, is a vindication of May.
jm08 wrote: » Rhineshark wrote: » It would be very difficult to get RoI into the Commonwealth around a UI. NI decides to have a ref and say it passes. RoI has its referendum and say it passes. RoI (and NI?) then need a referendum regarding the Commonwealth which may be mostly symbolic but includes loyalty to the monarch of Britain and that is going to be difficult for many Irish people to swallow. What happens if *that* one fails (especially if it as seen as a sop to the DUP who have not exactly made themselves popular down here lately)? Does that then impact the choice NI made? Do we need to have a referendum on a theoretical before a border poll? "If there was a border poll for a United Ireland that passes in both NI and RoI, do you agree with this change to the Constitution to allow Ireland to join the Commonwealth?" I dunno. I think it would be a can of worms tbh. There are plenty of republics that are Members of the Commonwealth (such as India). The Royal family have more significance in some countries where the Queen is still their head of State over others like Pakistan and South Africa. Would it require a referendum anyway. Didn't Ireland recently join the French equivalent of the Commonwealth and that didn't require a referendum.
Sam Russell wrote: » A United Ireland ... would be negotiated ahead of any referendum and all the details made quite clear.
jm08 wrote: » an Orange Parade in Dublin (and elsewhere if they want to).
so we are going to have to find a way to include her (or her successors) - possibly through joining the Commonwealth.
Brexit Under one draft timetable discussed in Whitehall today: - Cabinet likely Monday - Tue am Raab meet Barnier - Tue pm publication of full Withdrawal - Agreement and outline political declaration - Tue pm confirm likely EC council - Wed am PM statement to Commons
trellheim wrote: » Brexit Under one draft timetable discussed in Whitehall today: - Cabinet likely Monday - Tue am Raab meet Barnier - Tue pm publication of full Withdrawal - Agreement and outline political declaration - Tue pm confirm likely EC council - Wed am PM statement to Commons Smoke , perhaps a ballhop, from the tunnelhttps://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1060545358173036546 Commons is currently in recess till 12th November
An Ciarraioch wrote: » Strangely, in his tweet immediately before that he said there was no breakthrough on the Border
lawred2 wrote: » Leroy42 wrote: » dropping, changing or lessening some of our more tainted symbols of nationalism - the flag and the anthem.. I don't view either as tainted and would be 100% against changing or dropping either. Should add in relation to UI I wouldn't be in favour of it at this time for social, security Leroy42 wrote: » badtoro wrote: » I don't view either as tainted and would be 100% against changing or dropping either. Should add in relation to UI I wouldn't be in favour of it at this time for social, security & economic reasons. Just to be clear, you quoted a line as if I posted it when it wasn't me that said it. Sorry, on tablet, not the first time I've managed to do that.
Leroy42 wrote: » dropping, changing or lessening some of our more tainted symbols of nationalism - the flag and the anthem..
Leroy42 wrote: » badtoro wrote: » I don't view either as tainted and would be 100% against changing or dropping either. Should add in relation to UI I wouldn't be in favour of it at this time for social, security & economic reasons. Just to be clear, you quoted a line as if I posted it when it wasn't me that said it.
badtoro wrote: » I don't view either as tainted and would be 100% against changing or dropping either. Should add in relation to UI I wouldn't be in favour of it at this time for social, security & economic reasons.
An Ciarraioch wrote: » Yes, you just send in your application to the next Commonwealth Summit, and the various governments then decide whether to approve/reject it, but virtually unknown for the latter to happen, unless you get expelled, like Zimbabwe.
jm08 wrote: » Some compromises are going to have to be made and that one is kind of a harmless one.
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » This is the type of crap that goes unchallenged on twitter. And this is Andrew Neill, BBC presenter!https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1060576423390466049 He is intentionally making it seem like Varadkar is issuing unhinged diktats.
lawred2 wrote: » A lot of tail wagging the dog replies that tweet.. Seems like some British people still think Ireland is a part of the United Kingdom.
Junkyard Tom wrote: » This is a bad idea. The Parades Commission would have to go all-Ireland. 'Love Ulster' types would have to be quarantined and prevented from bring their hate-fest to the rest of the country.
I wouldn't blame people in the 26 counties for voting against a UI if they had to rejoin that useless anachronistic imperial club or have the so-called royals as some sort of head of state.
The best way to achieve a UI smoothly is for just about everything to stay the same, with Stormont as a devolved-from-Dublin regional parliament, keep the PSNI, keep the parades commission, let them have a British monarch as a sort of regional head-of-state.
Gradually harmonise the important economic stuff like taxes, currency, corporation tax, and so on, and eventually Stormont would become pointless.
lawred2 wrote: » A lot of tail wagging the dog replies to that tweet.. Seems like some British people still think Ireland is a part of the United Kingdom.
jm08 wrote: » No the Parades Commission wouldn't have to go all-Ireland. The orange parade in Donegal every year seems to be hassle free. While these parades maybe threantening in NI, they wouldn't be in most the ROI like Dublin, Cork, Galway etc. Anyway,since there would be so many parades going on in NI, the marchers would be spread very thin in the ROI. .
Gerry T wrote: » Sorry to drag this back a couple of pages but this is just so wrong. T.May is a really poor PM, she has a single focus and that's staying in power. She says anything that will keep her in a job and shows zero support for her team. A true leader does just that, leads. They show people that they have a vision, a path forward and the energy and will to make it happen. They put the cause ahead of their personal gain. They put people around them that will likewise support and drive the team in a single focused direction. But she puts people in positions and then goes to war with them, even with Rabb she makes him leader of brexit negations and soon after strips him of the power and put's herself in. She calls elections and looses majority control. She sells out the UK and hands control to the DUP, she agrees to backstops and goes back on her word. She's slimey, untrustworthy. She'll throw you under a bus and will go where the wind blows. An absolute rubbish leader, probably the worst the UK has ever had and that's saying something We're so luck to have Leo and Simon representing us, they may make the odd mistake but overall their doing us proud....in my opinion.
Bambi wrote: » Seth Brundle wrote: » Michel Barnier attacks those who want to undermine the EU...https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/there-is-now-a-farage-in-every-country-barnier-says-1.3690762 A little introspection might be in order, They'd want to address the conditions they created that resulted in Farages popping up like mushrooms everywhere
Seth Brundle wrote: » Michel Barnier attacks those who want to undermine the EU...https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/there-is-now-a-farage-in-every-country-barnier-says-1.3690762
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