Brian Hayes to leave politics

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Yawn..

We've been here before you and I.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/water_services/water_supply.html

https://www.housing.gov.ie/water/water-services/rural-water-programme/group-water-schemes-and-rural-water-issues

Implying it's a "lie" is pretty uncivil, considering you're well aware of the fact for reasons stated above.

Do you even remember what you wrote?

'People who have their own private wells avail of (are eligible) for annual state subsistence for the running and upkeep of same - - -'

That was - and is - a lie.

I should know.

[If water charges were introduced the annual subsidy to group schemes would obviously be withdrawn]

johnnyskeleton

Mod note:

Lets not get into Irish Water. Unless its specifically to do with Hayes' involvement/views, I dont think it is on topic.

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Sigh.....

This is fairly basic stuff, and I'm not sure if you're on a wind up at this point.

Do you think even think you know what you're referring to? Do you think this hasn't been discussed umpteen times before now?

Sigh all you want there pal. It doesn't change facts.

Nobody disputed that group schemes get subsidies.

The question was whether and individual, not part of a group scheme gets subsidies?

If you don't understand or appreciate the difference between (2) and (3) that I described above then there is not much point trying to continue.

Feel free to provide a link where an individual, not part of a group scheme, who has their own private water supply get an annual subsidy.

Again, I repeat not part of a group scheme.

And in case you didn't appreciate the distinction, I'll repeat it again - not part of a group scheme.

That means that a rule that is specifically for people who are part of a group scheme is not relevant. I'm not asking about those people. We know they get money. Nobody is arguing otherwise.

I'm not even arguing whether they do or not. It appeared from your posts that this was something that you've discussed and proven many times in the past. So it astonishes me why you'd produce "proof" that isn't proof to back up your statements

Again, to repeat. your link shows that people on group schemes can get those annual payments. It says nothing about those not on group schemes other than the 10-year grant I quoted originally.

Your 140 link is for 2B. Not 3. I think you think it is for 3 and you are arguing that people in 3 get 140. But there is nothing in your links to say they get annual subsidies. That might be the source of your confusion when arguing with people who say they don't get or qualify for annual subsidies.

Sigh.....

This is fairly basic stuff, and I'm not sure if you're on a wind up at this point.

An annual subsidy per house is available to group schemes for the operational cost of providing domestic water:

Do you think even think you know what you're referring to? Do you think this hasn't been discussed umpteen times before now?

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

It's actually quite clear if you read what's written down D.

It's up to 70e if you're connected to Irish Water supply system in some way, and (I assume) happen to have a sceptic tank, or are connected to Irish Water waste system, but not their drinking water. So that's an in or out scenario.

The other subsistence grant states that it is so, private source, and examples given.

No. that 140 is for a Group Scheme where the initial source of water is from a private source.

There are three main scenarios
1) Connected to Irish water network
2) Connected to a group scheme
3) Have your own well/source. On your own.

(2) has two subgroups.
(A) Water originates from Irish water. Perhaps the local group scheme owns the infrastructure or something. They might have put it in into an area that the council neglected and later on connected it somehow. But the council/IW never took control or responsibility for maintenance.

(B) The group take the water from a private well/source and do everything from filtering/cleaning to pumping.

Your 140 link is for 2B. Not 3. I think you think it is for 3 and you are arguing that people in 3 get 140. But there is nothing in your links to say they get annual subsidies. That might be the source of your confusion when arguing with people who say they don't get or qualify for annual subsidies.

Read the bit I quoted which talks about the 10-year grant begin available to those "not connected to either a public or a group scheme" .

Anyway, I won't post any more on the topic here. Was just asking a question and had to follow up.

votecounts

A tosser and a waste of space, won't be missed, the complete fine Gael politician.
I bet he wears a poppy as he always came across as a west brit.

Donald Trump wrote: »

I'm not trying to argue or contradict you. Was a genuine question. But the link that you said also seems to apply to those on a group scheme. I read it that the group can get an annual grant for each house etc. in the group.

First bullet point seems to be those where the water somehow comes from an Irish Water supply and the second one where a group get together and take water from a private well or a lake etc. Maybe that's being pedantic, but I would imagine there are houses that are not part of group schemes

A group scheme would make sense on an economy scale so I could see why the government would want to encourage people to pool together.

It's actually quite clear if you read what's written down D.

It's up to 70e if you're connected to Irish Water supply system in some way, and (I assume) happen to have a sceptic tank, or are connected to Irish Water waste system, but not their drinking water. So that's an in or out scenario.

The other subsistence grant states that it is

for • up to 140 euro for each house supplied from a private source (well, lake, borehole etc.)

so, private source, and examples given.

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

You're not looking in the correct place.

What you've linked to is the costs involved in establishing a well (installing it).

I was referring to the annual recurring costs involved in operating and maintaining a well/GWS.

link

Now, admittedly I'm not on either (GWS or a well) but I find it astonishing that people who are, and are entitled to state subsistence to run and maintain one aren't aware of it, neverminf availing of it.

I'm not trying to argue or contradict you. Was a genuine question. But the link that you said also seems to apply to those on a group scheme. I read it that the group can get an annual grant for each house etc. in the group.

First bullet point seems to be those where the water somehow comes from an Irish Water supply and the second one where a group get together and take water from a private well or a lake etc. Maybe that's being pedantic, but I would imagine there are houses that are not part of group schemes

A group scheme would make sense on an economy scale so I could see why the government would want to encourage people to pool together.

Donald Trump wrote: »

Hi, had a look at the link you posted. Doesn't say that. Says

The bits you quoted yourself are for group schemes which are different again

You're not looking in the correct place.

What you've linked to is the costs involved in establishing a well (installing it).

I was referring to the annual recurring costs involved in operating and maintaining a well/GWS.

link

Rural Water Programme
Under the department's Rural Water Programme, the Exchequer funds improvements to group water scheme and group sewerage scheme infrastructure so schemes can provide a water supply that meets water quality requirements. Some of the day-to-day costs of group water schemes are also subsidised. Administered by local authorities, the programme also helps to provide new group sewerage schemes and improve private individual water supplies where no alternative supply is available.

An annual subsidy per house is available to group schemes for the operational cost of providing domestic water:

• up to 70 euro for each house supplied from a public (Irish Water) source

• up to 140 euro for each house supplied from a private source (well, lake, borehole etc.)

Now, admittedly I'm not on either (GWS or a well) but I find it astonishing that people who are, and are entitled to state subsistence to run and maintain one aren't aware of it, neverminf availing of it.

James Brown

I suppose if Noonan gets a nice job with Cerberus we'll be asked, 'what of it'? A Shinner uses too much toner and theres uproar

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

People who have their own private wells avail of (are eligible) for annual state subsistence for the running and upkeep of same, I wish people would have the honesty to put this info up with the woe is me posts about operating one.

Hi, had a look at the link you posted. Doesn't say that. Says

Under this scheme, if your house is more than 7 years old and not connected to either a public or a group scheme, you may be eligible for a grant (subject to some conditions). The grant is worth up to €2,031.58 (or 75% of the cost of the work, whichever is the lesser) and must be used to provide a new water supply or to upgrade an existing one. Only one grant per house will be allowed in any 10-year period. In order to qualify for the grant, the proposed work must cost more than €635. A local authority inspection will be carried out before any work starts.

The bits you quoted yourself are for group schemes which are different again

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/water_services/water_supply.html

Good loser wrote: »

No, because it's a lie.

Yawn..

We've been here before you and I.

You have to pay for your water if you belong to a private group water scheme. However, local authorities do provide subsidies for each house in a group scheme – see Rates below. Local authorities have the remit to test the water supply and ensure it is safe to drink but they are not responsible for maintaining group scheme pipes and filtration systems.

Approximately 6% of the population get their drinking water from group water schemes (community-run schemes). Of these, about 70% get their water from private group schemes, which have a privately-sourced water supply. The remaining schemes get their water from an Irish Water connection. Members of group schemes pay water charges but have some of their water services costs subsidised by the government. A very small number of households receive sewerage services through group sewerage schemes, which are also community-run and receive government subsidies.

https://www.housing.gov.ie/water/water-services/rural-water-programme/group-water-schemes-and-rural-water-issues

Implying it's a "lie" is pretty uncivil, considering you're well aware of the fact for reasons stated above.

Walter E GO

Good loser wrote: »

You mean like the ESB do with the electricity?

I would put that down as a credit.

That old trope of an argument. Whataboutery at its finest. :rolleyes:

Walter E GO wrote: »

His last act as an MEP was to vote in favour of cutting off peoples water supply. Yeah he's some FG champion alright. He's an out and out right wing Scumbag.

You mean like the ESB do with the electricity?

I would put that down as a credit.

thegills

Didn't Hayes lose his Dail in 2002 due to a **** low number of votes and as a reward FG gave him a free job in the Senate so he would keep his continuous political employment and the pension that goes with it?

Russell Salty Gooseberry wrote: »

Have you a link to that?

No, because it's a lie.

Russell Salty Gooseberry wrote: »

Have you a link to that?

Yeah and it's been posted numerous times before and probably will be again, just not by me tonight.

This seems to be a little nugget that lots of people who were quite supportive of water charges are unaware of.

listermint

PeadarCo wrote: »

Why is that an issue? It something people who have their own private well face. If they don't pay their electricity bill, the electricity will be cut off and power to their pump and therefore water supply. It good he has been brave enough to actually stand up for sustainable development. As the summer showed(and current reservoir levels in the greater Dublin area currently show) water is a limited resource that must be conserved and paid for.

I have my own well.

I pay for my own filters.

I said back in the day when I matched during the water marches that I was jealous of people with their own supply I'd love it I'd love to pay for one.

I then bought a house with one

I still think waters a right and no I don't think we should charge for it . We wasted billions on meters.

Waters not a commodity to sell into private hands I don't care what mental gymnastics neoliberals give for it.

The next wars will be fought over it and I don't want some corporation controlling something that people will die in a matter of days without.

It should be provided out of public finances and we shouldn't have ever wasted that money on individual metering at domestic level.

Sector metering and pipe repair was the obvious choice. But that wouldn't have achieved the ultimate privatise and get it off the public books agenda.

uck51js9zml2yt

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

People who have their own private wells avail of (are eligible) for annual state subsistence for the running and upkeep of same, I wish people would have the honesty to put this info up with the woe is me posts about operating one.
.

Have you a link to that?

PeadarCo wrote: »

Why is that an issue? It something people who have their own private well face. If they don't pay their electricity bill, the electricity will be cut off and power to their pump and therefore water supply. It good he has been brave enough to actually stand up for sustainable development. As the summer showed(and current reservoir levels in the greater Dublin area currently show) water is a limited resource that must be conserved and paid for.

People who have their own private wells avail of (are eligible) for annual state subsistence for the running and upkeep of same, I wish people would have the honesty to put this info up with the woe is me posts about operating one.

To me, Hayes will be remembered as the man who tried to finally end the charade that the 2 x civil war party's were in fact any different to each other by calling for them to merge by way of a grand coalition. And the disastrous election campaign he oversaw which seen his party lose the election that was literally theirs to lose.

That's about it really..

Mundane and useless otherwise, got the feeling he was shunted off to Brussels, out of the way.

PeadarCo

Walter E GO wrote:

Why is that an issue? Hmm let me see.... Water is necessary to sustain life.

And so is heat, shelter and food required for life and they don't come free. Coming into winter electricity is arguably far far more important and yet a person can still be cut off. And you have ignored my point that for anyone without access to mains water their water can and will be cut off if they don't pay their electricity/water bill. Its not an unusual situation in this country and I don't see the complaints. In Ireland it's not an issue because unfortunately unlike most first World countries we don't have water charges. Over the summer we saw the results.

Walter E GO

Why is that an issue? Hmm let me see.... Water is necessary to sustain life.

PeadarCo

Walter E GO wrote:

His last act as an MEP was to vote in favour of cutting off peoples water supply. Yeah he's some FG champion alright. He's an out and out right wing Scumbag.

Why is that an issue? It something people who have their own private well face. If they don't pay their electricity bill, the electricity will be cut off and power to their pump and therefore water supply. It good he has been brave enough to actually stand up for sustainable development. As the summer showed(and current reservoir levels in the greater Dublin area currently show) water is a limited resource that must be conserved and paid for.

tototoe

Sums up the current crop of fg'ers imo. Arrogant, smug, full of his own self importance and a poor excuse for a politician

No loss.

Walter E GO

His last act as an MEP was to vote in favour of cutting off peoples water supply. Yeah he's some FG champion alright. He's an out and out right wing Scumbag.