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Child Item

Changing yellow street lights to white

eviltimeban

Have to say I'm not a fan. There was always something unique about the light cast by a yellow street lamp, a mellow glow that defined night time.

Now the old yellow lamps are being replaced by bright white LED lamps, which are certainly good at their job of illuminating the streets, but cast a very stark light. That magical glow is gone.

Is this happening in your area?

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Tell me how

eviltimeban wrote:

Is this happening in your area?

Yes. More energy efficient. Also, less light pollution.

You stop noticing the difference after a while.

CosmicSmash

Problem solved.:pac:

eviltimeban

Tell me how wrote: »

Yes. More energy efficient. Also, less light pollution.

You stop noticing the difference after a while.

I get the energy efficiency, but don't think I agree with the light pollution. I'm sure I'll get used to them, it's just a shame that yellow glow is going to disappear.

Tell me how

eviltimeban wrote:

I get the energy efficiency, but don't think I agree with the light pollution. I'm sure I'll get used to them, it's just a shame that yellow glow is going to disappear.

The part in bold "is" the pollution.

wexie

eviltimeban wrote: »

Now the old yellow lamps are being replaced by bright white LED lamps, which are certainly good at their job of illuminating the streets, but cast a very stark light. That magical glow is gone.

Isn't that what they are for? Might as well put up fairy lights otherwise?

eviltimeban wrote: »

Is this happening in your area?

Nope, nearest streetlights are miles away. Darkness is what defines night time.

[Deleted User]

Thoroughly dislike them, even though they're more efficient and objectively better.

They ruin the atmosphere, and in my opinion, that is actually worth something.

Effects

eviltimeban wrote: »

I get the energy efficiency, but don't think I agree with the light pollution. I'm sure I'll get used to them, it's just a shame that yellow glow is going to disappear.

People probably said the same thing when gas street lights stopped being used.

Effects

Deleted User wrote: »

Thoroughly dislike them, even though they're more efficient and objectively better.

They ruin the atmosphere, and in my opinion, that is actually worth something.

I much prefer white light myself. And this was the case before they were LEDs. The street lights they used abroad had a nice white colour temperature/colour cast.

Badly Drunk Boy

Tell me how wrote: »

Yes. More energy efficient. Also, less light pollution.

You stop noticing the difference after a while.

They changed the light outside my house a few months ago and I reckon it increased the light pollution, downwards anyway. At night, from inside my hallway, it looks like it's bright/daylight outside or as if it has been snowing, it's that bright.

And I still haven't stopped noticing the difference...

Padraig Mor

eviltimeban wrote: »

I get the energy efficiency, but don't think I agree with the light pollution. I'm sure I'll get used to them, it's just a shame that yellow glow is going to disappear.

Yeah, the few that are in my area seem much brighter than the older ones, even allowing for the differences in colour temp. They also stick out like a sore thumb when sited alongside older lights.

Suckit

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

They changed the light outside my house a few months ago and I reckon it increased the light pollution, downwards anyway. At night, from inside my hallway, it looks like it's bright/daylight outside or as if it has been snowing, it's that bright.

And I still haven't stopped noticing the difference...

I saw them in a nearby estate. It honestly looks like they don't know what they are doing, just got cheap bright LEDs and stick them up.

There must have been a reason in the earlier decades that softer colours were used. The ones near me are orange mostly, with some yellow. None are white.

I can only imagine that those new bright white gank ones will have a negative effect on wildlife.

eviltimeban

I see there was a post on this last year:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057731453

[Deleted User]

Nice shot of the difference. Just came across it on Reddit.

Franz Von Peppercorn

I miss the old neon lights.

eviltimeban

There's a few in my estate (including one right over my back garden), and the difference side by side makes for really weird lighting.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

They ruin the atmosphere, and in my opinion, that is actually worth something.

They are much less harmful to the environment than traditional sodium lights.

They might make the place look different but the idea is that the contribute to reducing the harm done to the environment.

Suckit wrote: »

I can only imagine that those new bright white gank ones will have a negative effect on wildlife.

No more than conventional lighting in terms of circadian rhythms it seems but given the reduced material and energy consumption, it would seem wildlife will be better off in the long run.

Some views on LED lighting in the US

For the last several decades, most street lighting in the United States has used high-pressure sodium (HPS) technology, which emits orange-yellowish light. HPS street lighting is being replaced by street lighting technologies that emit “white” light – primarily LED, due to its higher efficiency and longer life. All white-light technologies – including LED – emit more short-wavelength light than HPS. In addition to lasting longer and being more efficient – which by the way provide substantial energy and cost savings – LED street lighting also offers other potential benefits. For example, unlike other types of street lighting, LED systems can be adjusted to provide only the level of illumination needed at any given time, and can also offer a high degree of control over the direction in which light is emitted. This makes it much easier to reduce glare, light trespass (the spillover of light into areas where it’s not wanted), and uplight (which contributes to the phenomenon of “sky glow” that reduces visibility of stars in the night sky).

eviltimeban

The field of light cast is certainly far narrower. I'm not sure if that's necessarily a good thing, more shadows for bad guys to hide in?

At least the sodium lights cast a yellow light more evenly.

Suckit

Tell me how wrote: »

They are much less harmful to the environment than traditional sodium lights.

They might make the place look different but the idea is that the contribute to reducing the harm done to the environment.

No more than conventional lighting in terms of circadian rhythms it seems but given the reduced material and energy consumption, it would seem wildlife will be better off in the long run.

Some views on LED lighting in the US

I'm not debating the values of LED on energy bills etc.

I meant that they could be LED but with a yellow hue, or a soft/warm glow, rather than the white bright light that they are putting up in housing estates.

I don't like it at all.

cruizer101

Have to say I don't like them and agree with eviltime the light they cast seems to be more concentrated leading to darker spots/shadows where its hard to see. To me that seems more dangerous as you don't know what is in shadow.

Tell me how

Suckit wrote: »

I'm not debating the values of LED on energy bills etc.

I meant that they could be LED but with a yellow hue, or a soft/warm glow, rather than the white bright light that they are putting up in housing estates.

I don't like it at all.

Looks like some changes are being made in places

(CNN)In response to recent guidance by the American Medical Association against the use of powerful LED lights, cities such as Phoenix; Lake Worth, Florida; and 25 towns in Connecticut are now opting for street lamps with lower color temperatures, meaning less blue light emission.

The association's policy statement, released in June, suggested that LED lights with color temperatures higher than 3000 Kelvin had adverse effects on health, including eye damage and disrupted sleep patterns. The warning was aimed at large cities, where the standard color temperature for LED street lights is 5000K to 6000K.

Maybe what we are seeing now is the identification of teething problems which will be ironed out hopefully.

CelticRambler

I remember when the old white lights were phased out in favour of yellow. The view of the city at night, coming back from visiting my grandad in the country, was never the same afterwards, and I never got used to it. As recently as last week, down in Waterford-Wexford, I thought the homogenous orange puddles of light around each town ruined the feel of the place. The sooner we go back to the old ways, the better!

Tell me how

CelticRambler wrote: »

I remember when the old white lights were phased out in favour of yellow. The view of the city at night, coming back from visiting my grandad in the country, was never the same afterwards, and I never got used to it. As recently as last week, down in Waterford-Wexford, I thought the homogenous orange puddles of light around each town ruined the feel of the place. The sooner we go back to the old ways, the better!

Yeah, the wheel is always turning.
This is a video relating to the removal of old gas lamps from London with a somewhat regretful tone.

eviltimeban

Tell me how wrote: »

Maybe what we are seeing now is the identification of teething problems which will be ironed out hopefully.

If that's the case, our councils will probably be years behind.

I do agree they could easily place a tinted cover over the bulbs, but that'd probably cost more money.

Suckit

Tell me how wrote: »

Looks like some changes are being made in places

Maybe what we are seeing now is the identification of teething problems which will be ironed out hopefully.

That was written 2 years ago. How that wasn't known about here before they started putting them up..

They can still be bright without being white.
https://www.superbrightleds.com/blog/warm-white-led-streetlights-theyre-better-environment/4378/

goose2005

i miss the ould gas lamps. and before that starlight and moonlight, which was even whiter than LEDs

Harry Palmr

The leccy bill for sodium street lights is massive - 25w per 250 lumen LED 4w per 250 lumen. Bulb 25k hours average v 40k hours average

Tell me how

Suckit wrote: »

That was written 2 years ago. How that wasn't known about here before they started putting them up..
They can still be bright without being white.

https://www.superbrightleds.com/blog/warm-white-led-streetlights-theyre-better-environment/4378/

Maybe because the process was right for 10,000 cool light fittings who were now lo longer needed somewhere for some strange reason. :rolleyes:

Joking aside, Things move slowly and without yielding in the world of public utilities and procurement. The kelvin value of the lights was probably written on an initial feasibility study 10 years ago and made it all the way through assessment, selection and implementation.

AttentionBebe

The yellow and orange lights are ugly as sin. I can't understand how anyone prefers them.

Harry Palmr

AttentionBebe wrote: »

The yellow and orange lights are ugly as sin. I can't understand how anyone prefers them.

You're probably too young to have seen this but the French used to have yellow headlight lenses as the law. It was a weird hang over from WW2 when local cars needed to be distinguished from the German vehicles.

RiderOnTheStorm

Yup. The wheel is always turning. I remember when all street lights were white, and then they changed them to yellow. IIRC it was something to do with giving a more natural light as the white was very harsh.

Why can't there be yellow LEDs?