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The End for Youghal?

Isambard

and other lines

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/midleton-youghal-line-may-formally-shut/2572831/

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Markcheese

Have parts of the line been "acquired " by squatters? It's 30 plus years since a train went down the line, but even if small areas have been acquired they could be compulsory purchased back, which for small areas wouldnt be huge money (relatively)...
I hadn't realised there was a proposal to put a cycle lane next to the dunkettle to Midleton rail line.. (there's a reasonable amount of space between the old n25 and railway, dunkettle to carrigtohil..)

hans aus dtschl

Markcheese wrote: »

Have parts of the line been "acquired " by squatters? It's 30 plus years since a train went down the line, but even if small areas have been acquired they could be compulsory purchased back, which for small areas wouldnt be huge money (relatively)...
I hadn't realised there was a proposal to put a cycle lane next to the dunkettle to Midleton rail line.. (there's a reasonable amount of space between the old n25 and railway, dunkettle to carrigtohil..)

Yes unfortunately at Ballyquirk there's buildings and a private driveway crosses the railway also closer to Youghal town.
The plans for the greenway show the problems these specific encroachments cause, as the greenway sees a diversion at Ballyquirk via a CPO and a right of way given at the property closer to Youghal.

They're CPO'ing for greenway so I assume they're not very confident of regaining the Ballyquirk section, whatever the purpose.

But anyway my point was that for all of those who think that a greenway will prevent future rail because of the need for CPO: there's already need for CPO right now.

And if people think the greenway and railway can't coexist East-West side-by-side, then the entire East Cork area planning system will need review, and some of the CoCo's budget allocations will be cut accordingly.

hans aus dtschl

Markcheese wrote: »

I hadn't realised there was a proposal to put a cycle lane next to the dunkettle to Midleton rail line.. (there's a reasonable amount of space between the old n25 and railway, dunkettle to carrigtohil..)

Sorry I meant to reply to this too. They're calling this one "IU-1" or Inter-Urban route 1, referenced explicitly from page 182 onwards in the Cork Cycle Network Plan of Jan 2017.

https://www.corkcoco.ie/sites/default/files/2018-02/Final%20Published%20CMA%20Cycle%20Network%20Plan%20Jan%202017.pdf

I think it's an extremely wooly document, but all of the later plans approved by ABP are being approved in part because they refer to it extensively. Such as
"it'll be OK to put N new houses in X location, because modal shift will be achieved thanks to the Cork Cycle Network Plan"
or
"our development is feeding into the cycle network outlined in the Cork Cycle Network Plan"
etc

Lord Glentoran

Markcheese wrote: »

Youghal to Midleton rail should beat traffic on the n25,
Doubt if it'd youghal to Cork would beat traffic outside of rush hour... And even during rush hour if you've to get a bus at Kent station to get anywhere than city centre forget it...

I'd suggest redesigning and rebuilding the Cork City Railway to deal with this, but I imagine some folks would have a conniption at that. So I won't.

Markcheese

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

I'd suggest redesigning and rebuilding the Cork City Railway to deal with this, but I imagine some folks would have a conniption at that. So I won't.

And rightly so.... Kent Station isn't that far from the city centre, its just that most people are going places other than the city centre... So if you were gonna suggest a new train station at the heart of a wonderful new public transport network, and the whereabouts of a wonderful money tree to pay for it, then whoopee...
Dunkettle is probably the biggest transport hub in and around the city, and while it does have a train line it has no station.

hans aus dtschl

I'm hopeful that the train station will feel "closer" to the city centre with the building taking place on the south-west side - it will depend on how they connect those new buildings to the station itself.

In many European cities the station is also a shopping complex, which makes sense for all sorts of reasons: I'd like to see that in Cork.

Isambard

Markcheese wrote: »

And rightly so.... Kent Station isn't that far from the city centre, its just that most people are going places other than the city centre... So if you were gonna suggest a new train station at the heart of a wonderful new public transport network, and the whereabouts of a wonderful money tree to pay for it, then whoopee...
Dunkettle is probably the biggest transport hub in and around the city, and while it does have a train line it has no station.

Kent isn't in a bad position but it would be wonderful with a light railway link to the City Centre and on to UCC,CUH,CIT and then Ballincollig for instance.

Cork Trucker

Any update from the county council on this?

hans aus dtschl

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Any update from the county council on this?

Submissions were open until 30-Oct-18.
I've seen nothing official since then and am regularly on the Part 8 section of the CoCoCo website.

Cork Trucker

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Submissions were open until 30-Oct-18.
I've seen nothing official since then and am regularly on the Part 8 section of the CoCoCo website.

Will be interesting to see how it goes. Unconfirmed reports say that some of those who were behind the Deise greenway would rather see the train line restored over the greenway,

hans aus dtschl

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Will be interesting to see how it goes. Unconfirmed reports say that some of those who were behind the Deise greenway would rather see the train line restored over the greenway,

Only anecdotal, but anyone I met on the line (Kilmeadan, Dungarvan, Kilmac) is thrilled with that greenway. Have yet to meet someone against.

I can see why people would like to have a train line - it's a great way to travel. Don't think IE have any interest in this line in the short-medium term though.

Del.Monte

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Only anecdotal, but anyone I met on the line (Kilmeadan, Dungarvan, Kilmac) is thrilled with that greenway. Have yet to meet someone against.

I can see why people would like to have a train line - it's a great way to travel. Don't think IE have any interest in this line in the short-medium term though.

IE management and staff aren't interested in anything except the big pay-off.

hans aus dtschl

Del.Monte wrote: »

IE management and staff aren't interested in anything except the big pay-off.

I think they're interested in Monard and Waterrock tbf. I'd say if a big SDZ went into Mogeely there could be some interest alright. But it'd want to be very big, like Monard big.

Just looking at the numbers, it's 8km and no road crossings, probably something like €60million, if the Midleton rail line is to go by, and they'd need something like 20k people or more to consider it. Would be great, but doubt it'll happen in the next 20 years.

If the NRA approves an upgrade of the N25 to Castlemartyr to dual carriageway people should probably have those figures in mind. Again, nothing on the horizon there though.

Markcheese

Del.Monte wrote: »

IE management and staff aren't interested in anything except the big pay-off.

Well they're definitely not interested in getting politically lumbered with another Ennis to Athenry, and I can't say I blame them...

end of the road

Markcheese wrote: »

Well they're definitely not interested in getting politically lumbered with another Ennis to Athenry, and I can't say I blame them...

given the passenger railway isn't a commercial venture, what they are interested in or not isn't relevant. they are the operator and infrastructure manager, and they get paid to run the lines by government. what opens or not isn't their concern. at least not anymore

Markcheese

end of the road wrote: »

given the passenger railway isn't a commercial venture, what they are interested in or not isn't relevant. they are the operator and infrastructure manager, and they get paid to run the lines by government. what opens or not isn't their concern. at least not anymore

Well they've said they're not interested in it.. And they're leasing it to Cork coco.. Which shows they're not interested in it (except in getting it off their books)
And while your right IR isn't a commercial venture, it does have commercial interests, it has to worry about running lines and stations, allocating rolling stock, balancing books and the government aren't exactly throwing open the purse to them..

end of the road

Markcheese wrote: »

Well they've said they're not interested in it.. And they're leasing it to Cork coco.. Which shows they're not interested in it (except in getting it off their books)

the fact they aren't interested is irrelevant. if government/NTA ever decide it will open, it will open. whether irish rail are interested or not won't matter a jot, they will be operating it whether they want it or not. and i'd doubt it actually goes off their books dispite them leasing it to the council. i'd be surprised if there isn't some responsibility still remaining with them given they haven't gone for an abandonment order.

Markcheese wrote: »

And while your right IR isn't a commercial venture, it does have commercial interests, it has to worry about running lines and stations, allocating rolling stock, balancing books and the government aren't exactly throwing open the purse to them..

those aren't "commercial" interests as such, but rather simple operations. freight and charter trains would be the only real commercial interests irish rail have.

marno21

Councillors to vote on Monday on possibly one of the most short sighted plans I've seen. With a bit of luck sense will prevail and the mistakes of the past won't be repeated but I don't have much hope.

whisky_galore

marno21 wrote: »

Councillors to vote on Monday on possibly one of the most short sighted plans I've seen. With a bit of luck sense will prevail and the mistakes of the past won't be repeated but I don't have much hope.

Sense? LoL
Councillors, like some of the greenway supporters, are sheep.
Can't say I'm that surprised at the result.

marno21

Greenway passed council voe

https://twitter.com/JP_Cork/status/1084800555963371520

Cork Trucker

marno21 wrote: »

Greenway passed council voe

https://twitter.com/JP_Cork/status/1084800555963371520

If i knew how to appeal it i would.

Markcheese

Cork Trucker wrote: »

If i knew how to appeal it i would.

Because its been brilliant since the 80s

marno21

Markcheese wrote: »

Because its been brilliant since the 80s

Cork has been following a policy of car based commuting with large scale car dependent residential development in satellite towns since the 80s. In addition to this loads of car dependent development has opened up around the city. In recent years it's been proven that this is not a successful strategy to follow and there is a push on now to density the city and concentrate development in the centre of the city along good quality transit corridors.

Youghal is the only town in Cork that can be rail connected that isn't rail connected (unless you count Blarney's lack of a station). Macroom, Bandon, Fermoy, Watergrasshill, Carrigaline, Kinsale, will never get the opportunity so destroying the last potential corridor is not good forward planning

end of the road

Markcheese wrote: »

Because its been brilliant since the 80s

so? it couldn't have been brilliant seeing as it isn't in a state to take traffic. how it was operated previously, or it's current state, does not proclude it from being reopened and providing a good rail service in the future.

whisky_galore

No one was rooting for the railway, not the NTA, not Irish Rail, not the councillors, politicians but above all the car-centric people of the locality and Youghal itself selling themselves short. It hadn't a prayer.

Isambard

marno21 wrote: »

Cork has been following a policy of car based commuting with large scale car dependent residential development in satellite towns since the 80s. In addition to this loads of car dependent development has opened up around the city. In recent years it's been proven that this is not a successful strategy to follow and there is a push on now to density the city and concentrate development in the centre of the city along good quality transit corridors.

Youghal is the only town in Cork that can be rail connected that isn't rail connected (unless you count Blarney's lack of a station). Macroom, Bandon, Fermoy, Watergrasshill, Carrigaline, Kinsale, will never get the opportunity so destroying the last potential corridor is not good forward planning

Buttevant?

The rational of wanting a line re-opened just because it is there escapes me. There are lots of projects that could be done that would reap greater benefits.

end of the road

Isambard wrote: »

Buttevant?

The rational of wanting a line re-opened just because it is there escapes me. There are lots of projects that could be done that would reap greater benefits.

because reopening a line like youghal is easy and quick to do compared to some of the other projects, and it would have a good level of usage.

whisky_galore

Isambard wrote: »

Buttevant?

The rational of wanting a line re-opened just because it is there escapes me. There are lots of projects that could be done that would reap greater benefits.

Such as?

Isambard

I've said it before, but how about new stations at Blarney, Rathduff, Buttevant etc and a stopping train service from Cork to Limerick City.

whisky_galore

Isambard wrote: »

I've said it before, but how about new stations at Blarney, Rathduff, Buttevant etc and a stopping train service from Cork to Limerick City.

Irish Rail have to be forced to do this, elements within Irish Rail were apathetic if not hostile to reopening Midleton. But then, public transport was never this country's strongest suit. Politicians and the people that elect them don't seem to understand any concept outside of the private car.