kuro68k wrote: » The British government is going to take it right to the cliff edge and hope that someone else compromises. Of course they have their excuses already lined up if no-one does, only real question is who they will blame.
In a warning of battles ahead the former Brexit minister Steve Baker, a member of the European Research Group of Eurosceptic Conservatives, said: “If we are going to regulate our own economy, if we are going to have our own independent trade policy, if we are going to be a normal independent country — which is what I understood the referendum result to have decided — then we need to be out of the customs union . . . in a timely way.”
Peregrinus wrote: » Well, that depends on the headline. "EU bans coffee machines!" or "EU to FORCE cold coffee on British public!!" would be outright lies, for example.
Spook_ie wrote: » Yes the grain of truth is that the EU are setting standards, that doesn't mean the papers headline grabbers were outright lies, you may not agree with their tactics on selling papers but for people to call things outright lies, well, just isn't true.
Peregrinus wrote: » The grain of truth is "the EU regulates product standards". That's it. That's literally it. There is no reason at all to think that it follows that product standards are more onerous, more burdensome, more expensive, more bureaucratic, more restrictive than they would be if some other authority regulated product standards. You may find a particular product standard inconvenient or unhelpful to you, but even if so it's not inconvenient or unhelpful because it emanated from the EU. It's inconvenient or unhelpful because, e.g., you haven't worked out how to reset the timer on your coffee machine, or because you didn't buy a coffee machine with the features that you wanted, but in neither case can the blame for this be laid at the door of the EU.
Rhineshark wrote: » I have to agree with listermint on that. The links between the coffee maker argument and reality is that both mention coffee makers. Besides, it is easier to keep a hot thing hot than it is to make it hot due to basic physics. There's no reason why keeping some coffee in it at ecomode all day wouldn't also result in acceptable tar. Having said that, I'm pretty good with cutting down on wasteful energy consumption.
From 1 January 2015, the delay time after which different coffee machine technologies should go into standby and off modes are: For domestic drip filter coffee machines storing the coffee in an insulated jug, a maximum time of five minutes after completion of the last brewing cycle; For domestic drip filter coffee machines storing the coffee in a non-insulated jug, a maximum time of 40 minutes after completion of the last brewing cycle; For other domestic coffee machines such as espresso makers, a maximum time of 30 minutes after completion of the last brewing cycle.
listermint wrote: » Your definition of grain of truth is waffle. You cant conflate those headlines or even article content from the fairly boring standards the EU was setting. I urge you to come up with a sensationalist headline whose purpose is to sell papers by conflation a British standard . Let's say the humble 3 pin plug . "British standards agency to force every household to bore larger holes in their Walls. In bid to make us use additional pins" Now can you see the fairly obvious stupidity or is this a grain of truth. Selling papers the tabloidy way. Gutter press
Spook_ie wrote: » As I said most/all of them are sensationalized stories but with a grain of truth behind them. The example of the coffee machines does mean the EU effectively putting a limit on how long you keep your coffee hot for unless you fork out for a machine with a retro function ( manufacturing cost likely passed on to user ) or by remembering to reset the timer. When i was a caffeine addict my filter maker was on 24 hours a day and even when the coffee in the jug was like treacle at least it was hot treacle.
Spook_ie wrote: » But sometimes I want what I want, not what some EU diktat says that I want. As to crime against coffee, you haven't had a caffeine buzz until you drink filter coffee that has evaporated to 20-40% of its original water content
Peregrinus wrote: » Yes, but it saved you money, since your electricity consumption was lower. Plus, it helped to avoid crimes against coffee, which are among the greatest evils of our age.
Peregrinus wrote: » But all products standards come at at a cost to the consumer (as well, obviously, as conferring some benefit or advantage on the consumer); that's not a feature that's unique to, or characteristic of, EU product standards. There's no reason to think that EU product standards are more burdensome in this respect than, um, native British product standards would be. The wattage limitation on vacuum cleaners, for example, is something for which HMG pressed; presumably if products standards were a domestic competence they would have introduced something similar anyway.
Spook_ie wrote: » yeah but some/most do have a grain of truth behind the sensationalist paper selling headline. e.ghttps://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/hot-coffee/ At a cost to the consumer obviously, anyone buy vacuum cleaners before the limitation on wattage kicked in?
Akrasia wrote: » Was just looking at the link posted earlier in the threadhttps://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/ Its a really great resource for the level of propaganda from the gutter press in the UK going back decades on the European Commission website. The Remain campaigners should really spread this information more widely. Hundreds of articles referenced with irrefutable evidence of the lies that they spread to poison the British public against the EU. Just some random examples of some of the headlines: Brussels to tax every phone line £30, Sep 2000 Euro notes responsible for impotency, Mar 2002 EU aiming to ban thatched roofs, Oct 2004 EU bans lorry drivers’ British breakfast, Sep 2001 British power over VAT rates to be abolished, Mar 2000 EU rules blamed for vulture attacks on farm livestock, Aug 2007 Trafalgar Square and Waterloo station to be renamed, Oct 2003 Unwanted Valentine’s cards to be defined as sexual harassment, EU plans to ban zipper trousers, May 1999 EU to fine British drivers , Jan 2017
There have been some rumblings that the EU is set to ban coffee machines or force cold coffee on the general public. We wish to cut this myth off at the pass and explain why new rules coming into force as of January 2015 will not affect your beloved old coffee machine and why any new machine you buy will save on your electricity bills
The new rule simply means that coffee machines on the market after January 2015 must have an energy efficient option by having an eco mode that puts the hotplate or element into standby after a certain period (see below): thereby saving on people’s electricity bills. The eco mode will be the default mode of the coffee machine but manufacturers are free to create a non time-limited option alongside the eco mode – thereby leaving choice open to the consumer.
Strazdas wrote: » Important to remember too that there was nothing to counterbalance the lies. EU citizens who moved to the UK before the referendum said they were shocked by the complete lack of coverage of the EU in the British media. Virtually no stories at all in the press or the news bulletins apart from the stream of downright lies about the EU in the right wing rags. It would be quite common on the continent for there to be reports from summits or extracts from debates in the European Parliament on particular issues.
Tell me how wrote: » That is becoming ever more obvious. Off topic but Lindsey Graham had a Tweet today about Trumps job performance and suggested democrats would have stopped the earth rotating if Obama had done that. A reply showed how Trump is lagging behind Obama in similar time periods. Doesn't matter, Graham got 28K likes and someone somewhere probably decided "let's stick with the GOP for the mid terms"
charlie14 wrote: » Boris Johnston was probably to blame for most of those when he was a journalist covering the EU. The subsequent lies he and those of his ilk told during the referendum were swallowed whole by many leave voters, so I doubt historical ones being highlighted now would make a lot of difference. Remainers would probably be better off holding them to account by asking questions and demanding answers at every opportunity on their most recent ones
charlie14 wrote: Very true. But it is usually too late to do anything about them at that stage that will changed the problems they caused.
Akrasia wrote: » Historical lies that have all been proven ridiculous by the passage of time.
zapitastas wrote: » In essence that is exactly what a border poll is. Nationalists voting in favour of a UI and unionist the opposite. Will always be a numbers game. The removal of the mechanism to get to a border poll would be the removal of a political solution to a centuries old conflict. That would have severe repurcussions for all concerned
charlie14 wrote: » I wouldn`t have seen it like some coming down to a straight nationalist versus unionist vote based on future numbers winning a border poll for a UI. The NI economy survives on UK direct investment which would be a consideration for more than a few nationalists if it came to a vote. A hard Brexit would more than likely move those as well as some unionists in the middle ground but with a hard Brexit then I would be of the opinion that the mechanism under the GFA would be gone to even get to a border poll
zapitastas wrote: » Wouldn't view that as being rude at all. I would disagree though in the sense that up until the referendum the prospect of a UI seemed quite remote. Although the polls should be taken with a grain of salt bit was clear that there was a large number of soft nationalists that were content with the status quo and with the existing constitutional status. A rough brexit changes that situation dramatically and moves those in the middle ground
ilovesmybrick wrote: » No detail, just a general we're f**ked. Presumably the implication is that the EU has abandoned us and we'll be cast aside in favour of a deal with the UK.
charlie14 wrote: » Not being rude here, but I would be with Tell me how`s post on this.
Tell me how wrote: » The lady guest just called Leo the Irish President........
