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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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MrDerp

no.8 wrote: »

Excellent post Snotboogie.

However one striking issue I noticed (as a blow-in from another county), is the absolute lack of public transportation infrastructure foreseen for the region. Having lived in several cities in a number of countries, I have to say the Cork city area is poorly served in terms of local transport. Essentially, we've gone backwards. A silver lining would be the improved utilisation of the commuter railway line from Kent to Midleton/Cobh with the addition of at least Tivoli train station (together with the gateway bridge). Transport to the airport needs to be improved as well with more frequent buses.

Other than that, it's looking up for Cork.

Thankfully, and rather accidentally, the useable brownfield sites in Cork are close to both the train station and the bus station. Monard, Tivoli and Dunkettle will be very attractive places to live for renters and homeowners alike if 10000 jobs are added/moved to the quay areas. It’s great to see the likes of Clearstream moving from the airport business park.

namloc1980

marno21 wrote: »

The NTA are finalising a Cork Transport Strategy (I believe a draft will be published for public consutlation shortly), similar to Dublin's one which is available here: https://www.nationaltransport.ie/planning-policy/greater-dublin-areatransport-strategy-2016-2035/

This will be a long term multi year strategy for developing public transport, as there is currently none in Cork.

Wasn't this supposed to be published as part of the Tivoli and South Docks plans sometime during the summer? Not a peep about any of these plans since other than possibly "coming soon". Future planning in this country is such a slow and frustrating process.

Pitcairn

Student Accommodation:
Gainstar Limited Partnership's Coca-Cola site (484 beds) on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened?

Great post. Looks like Gainstar has put in new planning to modify the permission they already have.
http://planning.corkcity.ie/AppFileRefDetails/1838086/0

ofcork

Any info on a housing development planned for out past ballyvolane?

marno21

Crows Nest to have contractor appointed in December

https://twitter.com/CISireland/status/1059421846972567553

[Deleted User]

That's one stunningly ugly design

MrDerp

Deleted User wrote: »

That's one stunningly ugly design

I actually love it. I know I should hate but I can’t. I think it’s because it’s at least different. I think quirky architecture can make a city more interesting and that’ll be in guide books in 10 years.

It’s not as funky as the dancing house in Prague ...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_House
... but it brings it to my mind in some way.

I think that this is far enough outside the city centre and its heritage that we can afford to be playful for student accommodation.

thomil

Deleted User wrote: »

That's one stunningly ugly design

Fits right in with the entire area, which has all the architectural grace of a box of Lego bricks spread across the floor.

To be honest though, I kinda like the design. It has at least some quirks, and is not just a set of smooth facades. Looking forward to see those go up.

opus

MrDerp wrote: »

I actually love it. I know I should hate but I can’t. I think it’s because it’s at least different. I think quirky architecture can make a city more interesting and that’ll be in guide books in 10 years.

I like it as well, a big improvement on the existing ugly student accommodation that's been built near-by. Victoria Mills is the worst in my opinion, looks like it was built out of toilet bricks.

who_me

I kinda like it too, to be honest; it's a bit different and quirky. I would like to see it from another angle (from the North side, particularly), as it goes 'back' a lot further than I thought. It looks quite slim 'n' svelte from this angle, but it's much wider East-West.

I think this was a SHD application, can you view old applications on their site?

[Deleted User]

The computer renders of these designs always look better than the reality though.

TheChizler

who_me wrote: »

I kinda like it too, to be honest; it's a bit different and quirky. I would like to see it from another angle (from the North side, particularly), as it goes 'back' a lot further than I thought. It looks quite slim 'n' svelte from this angle, but it's much wider East-West.

I think this was a SHD application, can you view old applications on their site?

More renders here, can't find anything on the ABP site past 2015 or before current applications.

http://www.mcculloughmulvin.com/projects/crows-nest-student-accommodation-ucc

[Deleted User]

TheChizler wrote: »

More renders here, can't find anything on the ABP site past 2015 or before current applications.

http://www.mcculloughmulvin.com/projects/crows-nest-student-accommodation-ucc

It's brick work and not crappy panels?
Hate it a bit less now

TheChizler

Deleted User wrote: »

It's brick work and not crappy panels?
Hate it a bit less now

Reminds me of the new bit at Nano Nagle Place/Architecture School.

Apogee

Evening Echo wrote:

"Work will begin this spring on a new 600-bed student apartment complex on the former Coca-Cola bottling plant on the Carrigrohane Straight Road after the development was acquired by a UK development company.

Future Generation, based in London, has acquired the former cola factory, to create a flagship 600-bed accommodation scheme.

Work on the scheme is expected to start in Spring 2019 completing in time for the 2021 academic year."

https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Former-Cork-Coca-Cola-plant-is-acquired-by-UK-student-apartment-developer-062afe81-d738-43bf-bace-865e44bd89d1-ds

Pablo Escobar

Are An Taisce for real?
https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Planning-objection-delays-Prism-skyscraper-0cedba8c-b725-43a4-ac64-9ff1b9452f77-ds

SleetAndSnow

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

Are An Taisce for real?
https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Planning-objection-delays-Prism-skyscraper-0cedba8c-b725-43a4-ac64-9ff1b9452f77-ds

Honestly i think we should go back to Georgian 3 story red brick buildings.. keep the 'image' of the city

(Obviously sarcasm)

Really though this is a disgrace. ''It will destroy the Georgian era bank building'' ah go away, I saw an ancient church in New York surrounded by sky scrapers and it looked amazing, really made it stand out. The city needs to differentiate itself so they can go away back up to Dublin and have fun there.

Edit: Infact heres the church.

I mean yeah im not expecting Cork to become New York but saying it will ruin the look of that building is just crazy talk.

marno21

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

Are An Taisce for real?
https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Planning-objection-delays-Prism-skyscraper-0cedba8c-b725-43a4-ac64-9ff1b9452f77-ds

Pathetic.

Pablo Escobar

Yeah, it will ruin the place if we change this.......
https://goo.gl/maps/XgNWm9Fj2Hn

TheChizler

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

Yeah, it will ruin the place if we change this.......
https://goo.gl/maps/XgNWm9Fj2Hn

And this is the view they're saying will be ruined. I don't see it personally...
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.8957472,-8.4691996,3a,90y,17.03h,103.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_A9gOnt7SSdGft0Qok8obA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

j8wk2feszrnpao

"The appeal will take at least 18 weeks for An Bord Pleanála to decide."
At least 18 weeks? Over 4 months?
Ideally once the submission comes from An Taisce it should immediately be binned (such is their credibility at this stage). Serial objectors is a suitable name for them.

who_me

Regardless of what anyone thinks about the merits of the objection, why on Earth should it take 18 weeks? Do they need to fly in an expert from Mars to take a look at the view?

There's no benefit to anyone (developer, or objector) in having the decision taking that long.

SleetAndSnow

who_me wrote: »

Regardless of what anyone thinks about the merits of the objection, why on Earth should it take 18 weeks? Do they need to fly in an expert from Mars to take a look at the view?

There's no benefit to anyone (developer, or objector) in having the decision taking that long.

Agree with this, is it not a simple read their objection and then just accept or decline? How does that take at least 18 months?

[Deleted User]

Would they ever feck off. What bloody heritage buildings are down there??

snotboogie

who_me wrote: »

Regardless of what anyone thinks about the merits of the objection, why on Earth should it take 18 weeks? Do they need to fly in an expert from Mars to take a look at the view?

There's no benefit to anyone (developer, or objector) in having the decision taking that long.

In fairness there is an absolute fortune of developments in front of ABP at the moment, this will take longer than 18 weeks, I’d say 5-6 months. Time Square seemed to be saying that this had a 4-6 month phase before work and after planning too, so this is probably set back to 2020. Unfortunately this also impacts the 40 storey....

who_me

snotboogie wrote: »

In fairness there is an absolute fortune of developments in front of ABP at the moment, this will take longer than 18 weeks, I’d say 5-6 months. Time Square seemed to be saying that this had a 4-6 month phase before work and after planning too, so this is probably set back to 2020. Unfortunately this also impacts the 40 storey....

I could understand the 40-storey tower taking ages, that's going to be an exceptionally difficult build on an extremely constricted site, preserving the quay walls and nearby buildings, exiting onto one of the busiest routes in the city centre, and probably faced with a great many objections given the building's visbility.

But THIS objection is just "it doesn't look acceptable from this viewpoint". I can't fathom how anyone could be so busy they couldn't walk to that location, take some photos, then have a 10 minute meeting where they discuss if that's acceptable. Can anyone actually be so busy they don't have 30 minutes to spare in the next 18 weeks?

I'm sure that's not how the process works, my question is why isn't that how the process works? Would having a hour long discussion, or a day-long discussion actually improve the process in any way?

snotboogie

who_me wrote: »

I could understand the 40-storey tower taking ages, that's going to be an exceptionally difficult build on an extremely constricted site, preserving the quay walls and nearby buildings, exiting onto one of the busiest routes in the city centre, and probably faced with a great many objections given the building's visbility.

But THIS objection is just "it doesn't look acceptable from this viewpoint". I can't fathom how anyone could be so busy they couldn't walk to that location, take some photos, then have a 10 minute meeting where they discuss if that's acceptable. Can anyone actually be so busy they don't have 30 minutes to spare in the next 18 weeks?

I'm sure that's not how the process works, my question is why isn't that how the process works? Would having a hour long discussion, or a day-long discussion actually improve the process in any way?

I think it’s ridiculous that this is in front of ABP; An Taisce (among others) made their objections, the City Council considered them and the bid, told Times Square to resubmit a new application, which they did and then the City Council reconsidered and gave approval. That is the system working as it should. Appealing to An Bord Pleanala after is abusing the system. Maybe there should be a quick pre approval system because these appeals should be kept for exceptional circumstances, not as a tactic to stop a development by slowing it down.

questionmark?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Would they ever feck off. What bloody heritage buildings are down there??

The lovely views been blocked of the junkies I believe is the real reason!

Rhys Essien

'Cork is going to be the fastest growing city over the next twenty years'..........ffs.

The O'Sullivan brothers will be lucky to get off the ground in the next decade.

D'Agger

18months after an objection submission 'hours before the deadline'

Fúck An Taisce. As snotboogie mentioned, going to An Bord Pleanala here, whilst in their rights, is a large hole in the process in Irish planning. If there's pressure on the system to process these objections, leading to a delay that could actually surpass the build time on a project, then why isn't the system in place being reviewed?