nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Consent classes for Irish rugby team

professore

I have nothing much to say on this except that if the prospect of having your reputation and career destroyed and a possible jail sentence don't put you off then some consent classes certainly won't.

A case of shutting the door after the horse has bolted. I'm not sure of the value of consent classes - I see them similar to "drink responsibly" or "don't murder anyone" classes.

[url] https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/other-rugby/irfu-tackles-fallout-from-belfast-rape-trial-37491941.html[/url]

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

FunLover18

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

FunLover18 wrote: »

They were found NOT GUILTY, meaning that the jury did not believe that the evidence presented by the prosecution was enough to rule out any possible doubt that they were guilty.

That is not what a Not Guilty verdict means.

Perhaps you can word it better but It doesn't mean that they are innocent which is what the poster I quoted seems to believe.

ohnonotgmail

FunLover18 wrote: »

They were found NOT GUILTY, meaning that the jury did not believe that the evidence presented by the prosecution was enough to rule out any possible doubt that they were guilty.

That is not what a Not Guilty verdict means.

jimgoose

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

And at what point will the classes for women on "it's probably not a good idea to get absolutely locked and sleep with a couple of people who will take the piss the next day".

I'd guess, never in this world. Yet by God are they needed!

I would guess around the same time as the unisex "Don't be a five-star ocean-going lantherin' buck-eejit with the full complement of lifeboats" module.

FunLover18

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Last time I checked, the lads involved were found innocent of all charges laid against them, thus negating the need for any "action" to be taken beyond deciding who pays who's legal costs.

I find it hard to believe that these verdicts could have been overturned on appeal without my having heard about it in a major news headline

They were found NOT GUILTY, meaning that the jury did not believe that the evidence presented by the prosecution was enough to rule out any possible doubt that they were guilty.

LirW

Assetbacked wrote: »

It's a good example to set, agreed. But the reality of the situation is that there are women who make it a career to tie down a famous rugby player and will throw themselves at them. This creates an entitlement attitude with the guys as their negative attitude to women is somewhat unpunished as girls don't care. Unfortunately, this is not a black-and-white yes/no consent issue because people know exactly what they are doing when proceeding with a rape and a simple yes/no consent class is not enough - attitudes and behaviours on both sides should be changed if people think it is harmful for guys to look down on girls and girls to throw themselves at guys.

Show me the hoards of women please that make a career out of that please :rolleyes:

What do you mean by "go throwing themselves at guys"? So if a woman gets raped or assaulted she shouldn't be surprised because she openly flirted with a guy or made out with him?

Anyway it's a brilliant idea because it sets a good example. I've a very Rugby-enthusiastic son who asked me about why Paddy Jackson isn't playing anymore. So these things do not go unnoticed by the young lads that look up to them.
A lot of athletes come from a line of athletes or managers, enjoy very good private education and some indeed are out of touch how the real world works and that a girl can do other things than just being a pretty WAG. There's a world difference in attitude between athletes that got scouted from a local club and one that had his name put down in Blackrock at birth and is destined to live up to their family's name.

Nothing bad came out of measures like that ever.

I'm just surprised that they don't talk about these things and situations in PR classes that they all probably have.

PlaneSpeeking

jimgoose wrote: »

The "lads" - a.k.a. "well-reared, educated grown men who should and do know better" - are demonstrated to have an terrible attitude to young women, and treated them abysmally.

And at what point will the classes for women on "it's probably not a good idea to get absolutely locked and sleep with a couple of people who will take the piss the next day".

I'd guess, never in this world. Yet by God are they needed!

jimgoose

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Last time I checked, the lads involved were found innocent of all charges laid against them, thus negating the need for any "action" to be taken beyond deciding who pays who's legal costs.

I find it hard to believe that these verdicts could have been overturned on appeal without my having heard about it in a major news headline

The "lads" - a.k.a. "well-reared, educated grown men who should and do know better" - are demonstrated to have an terrible attitude to young women, and treated them abysmally.

hatrickpatrick

Last time I checked, the lads involved were found innocent of all charges laid against them, thus negating the need for any "action" to be taken beyond deciding who pays who's legal costs.

I find it hard to believe that these verdicts could have been overturned on appeal without my having heard about it in a major news headline

Assetbacked

It's a good example to set, agreed. But the reality of the situation is that there are women who make it a career to tie down a famous rugby player and will throw themselves at them. This creates an entitlement attitude with the guys as their negative attitude to women is somewhat unpunished as girls don't care. Unfortunately, this is not a black-and-white yes/no consent issue because people know exactly what they are doing when proceeding with a rape and a simple yes/no consent class is not enough - attitudes and behaviours on both sides should be changed if people think it is harmful for guys to look down on girls and girls to throw themselves at guys.

FunLover18

As previous posters have said, there's no harm in it. In fact, even they are being made to do it, it sets a good example. I think it was mentioned in the thread specifically dedicated to the Jackson trial but the Seconds Captain podcast about consent with Sadlier (who runs similar programmes with schools) did an excellent job of highlighting how out of touch sports people can be in this regard.

Floppybits

wexie wrote: »

Floppybits wrote: »

Folks need to read this article seeing as Party season is coming up.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/niamh-horan-how-to-flirt-in-metoo-christmas-party-season-37489910.html

You mean literally ask a person: "Can I flirt with you?"

"Exactly," she says.

And they say romance isn't dead.....

I don't know if that is a tongue in cheek article or if she is serious. Can you imagine approaching someone and saying "Can I Flirt with you?", I know some of my female friends would look at ya as if ya have 2 heads and either wet themselves laughing or tell ya "F**k off, ya weirdo".

ClanofLams

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Given that sport pretty much exists to keep thickos occupied between wars, I'd say that these classes are well targetted.

What a moronic viewpoint.

jimgoose

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Given that sport pretty much exists to keep thickos occupied between wars, I'd say that these classes are well targetted.

I think that, with the best will in the world, is a somewhat reductionist view of sport, at the very least.

Mrs OBumble

jimgoose wrote: »

I suppose such classes won't do any harm, and in the case of the sort of thicko who actually needs to be told these things, they might even do a little bit of good.:

Given that sport pretty much exists to keep thickos occupied between wars, I'd say that these classes are well targetted.

wexie

Floppybits wrote: »

Folks need to read this article seeing as Party season is coming up.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/niamh-horan-how-to-flirt-in-metoo-christmas-party-season-37489910.html

You mean literally ask a person: "Can I flirt with you?"

"Exactly," she says.

And they say romance isn't dead.....

Floppybits

Folks need to read this article seeing as Party season is coming up.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/niamh-horan-how-to-flirt-in-metoo-christmas-party-season-37489910.html

jimgoose

I suppose such classes won't do any harm, and in the case of the sort of thicko who actually needs to be told these things, they might even do a little bit of good. I refer the gentle reader, however, to the comment of my own good lady when she heard about "Sexual Consent" classes in UCC some time back: "Oh for fuck sake, they have to get planning permission to have sex these days!" :pac::pac::pac:

topper75

^^^
Classic image (Oxygen)!

Is 'telling them' going to fix such people though at this stage? I'm on the waste of time side of the fence on these initiatives.

sbsquarepants

professore wrote: »

I see them similar to "drink responsibly" or "don't murder anyone" classes.

One of the finest examples of real life irony I ever came across was a young woman passed out in a field at Oxygen wrapped in a drink aware banner!

As for the classes - probably won't do much good, but they can't hurt can they? Unfortunately there are some **** bags out there who for whatever reason do need to be told it's wrong to "take advantage" of women.

CinemaGuy45

Collie D wrote: »

Box ticking exercise.

Pretty much like the majority of training courses in the majority of companies.

Covers their asses and gives the HR department a sense of actually doing something

Usually with a stupid video too.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Collie D wrote: »

Box ticking exercise.

Pretty much like the majority of training courses in the majority of companies.

Covers their asses and gives the HR department a sense of actually doing something

Precisely. No different to any business out there.

\thread.

Collie D

Box ticking exercise.

Pretty much like the majority of training courses in the majority of companies.

Covers their asses and gives the HR department a sense of actually doing something