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Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

Rhineshark

kuro68k wrote: »

The British government is going to take it right to the cliff edge and hope that someone else compromises. Of course they have their excuses already lined up if no-one does, only real question is who they will blame.

1. The EU
2. Remainers
3. Ireland
4. Corbyn

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Strazdas

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

From tomorrow's Irish Times

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/brexit-backstop-deal-set-to-cover-all-of-uk-1.3686240

Problem here is what "London" wants may not be what the hard Brexiteers want.

Peregrinus

Strazdas wrote: »

Yes, two different editorial teams. The Irish editors don't just copy and paste articles coming through from the UK. They will amend them as they see fit.

Yes, but "amend" doesn't mean "make stuff up". The Dublin and London editions of the paper published separately-edited versions of same story, but anything that appeared in either version is something emanating from the journalists who wrote the original story.

Kermit.de.frog

From tomorrow's Irish Times

The final deal on Britain’s withdrawal from the European Union is set to include a backstop that will apply to the entire United Kingdom, but will have additional measures for Northern Ireland to ensure there is no hard border.

The Irish Times understands a common view is emerging in Dublin, London and Brussels on the contentious issue.

A Northern Ireland-specific backstop – a guarantee to avoid a hard border even if future trade talks fail – would effectively give way to one that would apply across the entirety of Britain for customs only.

However, the withdrawal agreement would also contain additional measures that would apply on the Irish Border. These are understood to include some extra customs rules as well as rules to ensure the North’s regulations remain in alignment with EU standards.

A senior government source said such “add-ons” do not “change the fact that Northern Ireland remains in the customs territory of the UK”.

“You have one backstop – the main element of which is a UK-wide customs union – to be extended with additional measures for Northern Ireland,” the source added.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/brexit-backstop-deal-set-to-cover-all-of-uk-1.3686240

fly_agaric

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

Well the Irish version left out the Whitehall official saying that Ireland were f**ked, so there's a degree of pandering to national audiences and not providing the full account in case it upsets the apple cart

That anonymous quote ("the small print is that Ireland is f-ed") is in article on the inside of the one I bought today ("How May conjured up a deal" - p.13) but not in the bit they have on the front page. Did they have it on front page for the UK one??

Capt'n Midnight

Just a reminder
https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/1104/1008533-brexit/

The UK has given written commitments last December and March that the withdrawal agreement will give a legal guarantee of no return to a hard border in Ireland in any circumstance, the Department of Foreign Affairs has said.

A spokesperson said this is the backstop, following reports in The Sunday Times that an all-UK customs deal will be written into the legally binding agreement governing Britain's withdrawal from the EU to avoid the need for an Irish backstop.

Tell me how

BonnieSituation wrote:

Or Tony Connelly

I just finished his book on Brexit. Every paragraph is a simple concise example of the difficulties and implications around Brexit.

He gave an insightful view into the arrogance of David Davis. When he was appointed as UK negotiator, he asked an official on the Irish side to set up a chat with 'Kenny'. He was quickly rapped on the knuckles for A not using the appropriate channels with May being Enda's appropriate contact given roles held and B, not using the appropriate title for the leader of the government.

BonnieSituation

Seth Brundle wrote: »

We should ignore all announcements unless they're announced by the EU!

Or Tony Connelly

Seth Brundle

Enzokk wrote: »

First we read a deal is done, then Raab pipes up and throws a spanner in the works.

We should ignore all announcements unless they're announced by the EU!

flatty

Tell me how wrote: »

The parallels between ardent brexiteers and Trump team members have never been clearer than they are in this video.

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1059106987345133568

And Theresa May also refused to give an interview to Jon Snow during this years Tory Party.

Might be the place to go for a realistic UK media viewpoint.

That says as much about the BBC as it does about anything else. They should be squirming looking at that. Someone should forward that to Andrew Marr, though he is so arrogant I doubt he'd understand.

Enzokk

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Last Tuesday night over dinner.

I think we can see the dynamic here that has been described in the politics.eu article on the Irish and British relations taking a few steps back due to Brexit. In that article it was described how Karen Bradley has been bypassed on all issues regarding NI even though she is the Secretary of State for NI. This is because the DUP goes directly to No.10 with any issues it means that Ireland are now dealing with Brokenshire (Deputy PM) instead.

So in this Telegraph article it is described that Raab has made his intention known about the backstop that is apparently not a backstop now, but after that Coveney contacted Brokenshire to get clarification on what the position is or what is going on. Now we have Olly Robbins going to Brussels from Monday to conclude the deal. But the question still remains for some insane reason, what is the deal?

I think if there still isn't clarity from the UK after this week the EU should cut its losses and prepare for no deal. You will not get anything done with a government who is constant debate with itself and seems to change its own mind ever few days. First we read a deal is done, then Raab pipes up and throws a spanner in the works.

Kermit.de.frog

BonnieSituation wrote: »

When was the demand supposedly made?

Last Tuesday night over dinner.

BonnieSituation

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1059203589434982401

Raab demanded to Coveney UK should be allowed quit backstop after 3 months.

What planet are these guys on?

When was the demand supposedly made?

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1059203589434982401

Raab demanded to Coveney UK should be allowed quit backstop after 3 months.

What planet are these guys on?

bilston

Patser wrote: »

About Andrew Maxwell being brought in to politics - I wonder is it pure coincidence that he appeared recently on the History channel series Why does everyone hate the English. Obviously he was on the Irish episode, but had a good bit of banter and no nonsense explanation of the Irish side of history with Al Murray. Could this recent exposure on a UK TV show, somehow have launched him as an expert on Anglo Irish relations in the eyes of the British public?

Define the "British public". If more than a couple of hundred thousand people have watched that particular show I'd be surprised, and if more than 2% of the "British public" have even heard of Andrew Maxwell I'd be even more surprised.

Rhineshark

Strazdas wrote: »

Yes, two different editorial teams. The Irish editors don't just copy and paste articles coming through from the UK. They will amend them as they see fit.

That is rather disturbing though. Shipman wrote presumably the whole article. The Irish version removed the Tory line, which, while I'm not keen on the editing, I can give the benefit of the doubt to reasons being it being misleading to the reader, insulting and also provocative at a delicate point (profanity probably didn't help either). But the UK version removed important and salient information and actually mislead the public, going by the posts above.

Channel 4 taking over from BBC as reliable news source is a strange sign of the times. Banks' behaviour towards the reporter was just bratty. Same sort of sleazy insoucience that made Martin Skhreli so dislikeable and made his downfall so totally unmourned.

charlie14

Tell me how wrote: »

The parallels between ardent brexiteers and Trump team members have never been clearer than they are in this video.

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1059106987345133568

And Theresa May also refused to give an interview to Jon Snow during this years Tory Party.

Might be the place to go for a realistic UK media viewpoint.

The only British TV news I even listen too any more. I have found their coverage and interviews fair and balanced in the main and at least they understand the border issue and the GFA.

Tell me how

The parallels between ardent brexiteers and Trump team members have never been clearer than they are in this video.

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1059106987345133568

And Theresa May also refused to give an interview to Jon Snow during this years Tory Party.

Might be the place to go for a realistic UK media viewpoint.

[Deleted User]

Rhineshark wrote: »

He'd have to say it pretty loudly in Maam Cross to get heard at all, unless it was the weekend market. The tourists in Peacockes might hear though :P

Hey. A great hotel, and dog friendly too!

Tell me how

Patser wrote: »

About Andrew Maxwell being brought in to politics - I wonder is it pure coincidence that he appeared recently on the History channel series Why does everyone hate the English. Obviously he was on the Irish episode, but had a good bit of banter and no nonsense explanation of the Irish side of history with Al Murray. Could this recent exposure on a UK TV show, somehow have launched him as an expert on Anglo Irish relations in the eyes of the British public?

Could easily have been enough.
A producer probably did a Google search with the key words 'Irish' 'UK chat shows' 'Politics' or something similar.

It's surprising the angle some of the Brexiteers take on the Irish subject.
They can't believe how we want to be dictated to by the EU as they perceive it.

This is baffling on two fronts. Firstly, it shows their complete disassociation with the link between their countries history and ours. And secondly, even if they acknowledged the first point, to suggest we would be against being part of a community such as the EU as a result of being occupied for so long is like saying that someone who was held hostage for a period would never want to have a relationship once they were released.

The look on the face of the lady in the black and white dress while Maxwell was talking about China was like she thought he was talking about a film from last years Oscars.

P_1

Patser wrote: »

About Andrew Maxwell being brought in to politics - I wonder is it pure coincidence that he appeared recently on the History channel series Why does everyone hate the English. Obviously he was on the Irish episode, but had a good bit of banter and no nonsense explanation of the Irish side of history with Al Murray. Could this recent exposure on a UK TV show, somehow have launched him as an expert on Anglo Irish relations in the eyes of the British public?

Wouldn't surprise me. Hes in the same mould as John Bishop in that regard

Patser

About Andrew Maxwell being brought in to politics - I wonder is it pure coincidence that he appeared recently on the History channel series Why does everyone hate the English. Obviously he was on the Irish episode, but had a good bit of banter and no nonsense explanation of the Irish side of history with Al Murray. Could this recent exposure on a UK TV show, somehow have launched him as an expert on Anglo Irish relations in the eyes of the British public?

Rhineshark

P_1 wrote: »

I wonder if that O'Neill character would have the liathróidí to go to Maam Cross or Clifden and proclaim that they're all peasants

He'd have to say it pretty loudly in Maam Cross to get heard at all, unless it was the weekend market. The tourists in Peacockes might hear though :P

Seth Brundle

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The DUP will have abandoned the Tories by the end of the week if this is true.

...only because the Tories abandoned the DUP beforehand.

Kermit.de.frog

I expect we will see more this evening on a deal in tomorrow's papers.

Judging by reports from journos on Twitter:

The backstop is there
An exit clause for UK is there
If/when GB uses exit clause to diverge the backstop kick in
In the meantime NI stays in SM with some increased but limited checks and some of these done away from the ports

That's how I understand the state of play right now...

The DUP will have abandoned the Tories by the end of the week if this is true.

J Mysterio

P_1 wrote: »

I think it's fair to say he didnt give them a laugh. Rather he called it as it is in a way an academic or politician would b constrained in doing by the very virtue of their profession

I dont think our politicians are very constrained on these issues. They are measured, sure, but they make the salient points.

P_1

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Would this have included those descended from peasants?

I wonder if that O'Neill character would have the liathróidí to go to Maam Cross or Clifden and proclaim that they're all peasants

Seth Brundle

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It's how we all would have handled it.

Would this have included those descended from peasants?

BonnieSituation

J Mysterio wrote: »

Ok so, Politics panel of:

Owen Jones - Guardian columnist
Jane Merrick - Political commentator
Brendan O'Neill - Editor of Spiked Online
Katy Balls - The Spectator.

Brought on to discuss Anglo Irish relations:

James Maxwell - Irish Comedian

It shows the contempt they have for Irish politics, or their lack of seriousness in engaging with it.

Like I said before though, in the greater context, it probably was approproate to have an Irish comedian on, it is all such a joke over there.

It's Andrew Maxwell. But any relatively intelligent Irish person is more than capable of handling a British panel.

Everything he said and the contempt he held O'Neill in was how it should be handled. It's how we all would have handled it.

Kermit.de.frog

J Mysterio wrote: »

Ok so, Politics panel of:

Owen Jones - Guardian columnist
Jane Merrick - Political commentator
Brendan O'Neill - Editor of Spiked Online
Katy Balls - The Spectator.

Brought on to discuss Anglo Irish relations:

James Maxwell - Irish Comedian

.

And not even a funny comedian.

Strazdas

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

I think it was more an editorial decision. Tim Shipman has the credit for both versions of the article, so I think they may have left out the parts of the full article that wouldn't play well in Ireland, and vice versa in the UK edition.

Yes, two different editorial teams. The Irish editors don't just copy and paste articles coming through from the UK. They will amend them as they see fit.