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M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

JupiterKid

Following on from the suggestion of a poster, this thread has been set up to discuss the need for widening the M7.

The section of the M7 IMO in immediate need (really a backlog need) for widening is the section from the Maudlins Interchange at Naas to the M9 interchange - basically the original 1983 Naas Bypass and half of the 1993 Newbridge Bypass. Is this likely to proceed in the near future?

Would the central median be wide enough for widening to D3M here? I'm pretty sure it is wide enough on the Newbridge bypass section but I'm not so sure in the case of the Naas Bypass.

Also, what bridges will need to be demolished and rebuilt? Or would it be more practical to drop the hard shoulder through the existing bridges?

What about the proposal a few years back to build a new junction at on the Naas Bypass at Osberstown? Will it still go ahead?

In the longer term, does anyone see a need to widen the M7 to the N7/M8 junction?

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marno21

murphaph wrote: »

It also suggests the bypass will go under the railway...is that correct?

It is indeed. The railway was closed easter weekend this year to facilitate the installation of an underpass for the road, there should be posts on it here if you go back.

Rulmeq

murphaph wrote: »

It also suggests the bypass will go under the railway...is that correct?

You're in for a treat so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFeBxzsPDQM

road_high

Rulmeq wrote: »

You're in for a treat so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFeBxzsPDQM

Just shows when the will and resources are employed, major engineering and infrastructural projects can be completed very quickly and efficiently.
Sadly it’s a rarity and usually we must endure months/years of disruption

Emme

road_high wrote: »

Just shows when the will and resources are employed, major engineering and infrastructural projects can be completed very quickly and efficiently.
Sadly it’s a rarity and usually we must endure months/years of disruption

It proves that the M7 upgrade is being dragged out for as long as possible to provide jobs for the boys and maximum frustration and delays for motorists, not to mention accidents. Disgraceful. The team that are working on the project should have been booted off long ago and the job given to a crew willing to work 24/7 and get the road finished in a reasonable period of time.

Kevwoody

Emme wrote: »

It proves that the M7 upgrade is being dragged out for as long as possible to provide jobs for the boys and maximum frustration and delays for motorists, not to mention accidents. Disgraceful. The team that are working on the project should have been booted off long ago and the job given to a crew willing to work 24/7 and get the road finished in a reasonable period of time.

Perhaps the dozens of expert's on here could form their own company, with all the wealth of knowledge everyone seems to have, a small company like Siac wouldn't stand a chance.

Kevwoody

Emme wrote: »

It proves that the M7 upgrade is being dragged out for as long as possible to provide jobs for the boys and maximum frustration and delays for motorists, not to mention accidents. Disgraceful. The team that are working on the project should have been booted off long ago and the job given to a crew willing to work 24/7 and get the road finished in a reasonable period of time.

Perhaps the dozens of expert's on here could form their own company, with all the wealth of knowledge everyone seems to have, a small company like Siac wouldn't stand a chance.

GhostyMcGhost

Deedsie wrote: »

We have employment standards in Ireland...

Not to be smart but my employer has standards too. They expect me to be on time every day

I understand what you mean about shifts etc but why did they expand the road to J11 when it was clear as day it was already chaos when it was only roadworks to J10

It’s even gotten to the point where residents of kill are pissed off and protesting that we’re using their village as a rat run

It’s one big pile of stereotypically bad planning

GhostyMcGhost

Deedsie wrote: »

We have employment standards in Ireland...

Kermit.de.frog

Anyone able to get any snaps of this project?

Hard for us to follow - those that don't use the route - where things are.

Mantis Toboggan

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Anyone able to get any snaps of this project?

Hard for us to follow - those that don't use the route - where things are.

Check out Google maps satellite view.

WhatsGoingOn2

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Check out Google maps satellite view.

? I presume you know that isn't a live feed...

Mantis Toboggan

WhatsGoingOn2 wrote: »

? I presume you know that isn't a live feed...

Yeah, image is 2 months old but gives a good idea of what's going on.

jmkennedyie

May have been posted here already but official September update has two or three pics too: http://www.m7upgrade.com/project-updates.

Re Sallins bypass side nothing particularly noteworthy for public to photograph except new hill/embankments to north of canal. Rest of bypass site is out of view. Ramp between rail and canal still wasn't started at least this time last week.
In last few weeks clearance/realignment preparation on the Osberstown road is underway in advance of new over-bridge construction.

On mainline the new outer lanes are being built up now especially between J9 and J10. In places seems to have reached existing road level.

A new road is progressing centre of here too: https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2072339,-6.7124407,754m/data=!3m1!1e3. It will be required to divert traffic while J10 is being relocated

You can see ultimate layout here http://www.theaa.ie/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/M7-Scheme-Layout-Layout2-1.jpg

Emme

Deedsie wrote: »

They have families too and expecting them to work 12 hour days etc is unfair. A second & third crew would make it a very expensive road build.

Nobody would expect road crew to work silly hours despite the fact that the roadworks mean many people leave home before 6am and don't get back until after 7pm. That's a 13 hour day.

A second and third crew would have made the road build expensive BUT WHAT DO WE PAY ROAD TAXES FOR????

SoupyNorman

Emme wrote: »

Nobody would expect road crew to work silly hours despite the fact that the roadworks mean many people leave home before 6am and don't get back until after 7pm. That's a 13 hour day.

A second and third crew would have made the road build expensive BUT WHAT DO WE PAY ROAD TAXES FOR????

Firstly, look how fast you can travel from Dub – Cork, Dub – Galway, Dub – Waterford etc….Your taxes paid for the excellent motorway network that’s in place. Of course there is room for a lot more improvement but there is an entire generation who never had to do the 4 hour drive to Cork, 3 and a half hour drive to Galway on secondary roads.

With regards the N7 upgrade, everything has a budget…if we were to throw more manpower onto the project then another project somewhere else does not get done or gets delayed.

Im a little dismayed at the way this thread has gone, I feel like you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

Kamili

Emme wrote: »

A second and third crew would have made the road build expensive BUT WHAT DO WE PAY ROAD TAXES FOR????

Nobody pays road tax in this country BTW, not one cent. It simply does not exist.

I too am a little dismayed at how this thread has gone, but its not surprising seeing as how everything goes the same way on here.

Look, at least they are doing something about it and when its done its done and it will hopefully improve the flow of traffic on the road.

A massive part of the issue is that we are now at worse levels of traffic than have ever been seen before in the state, and with a poor public transport system in place its only set to get worse.

Couple that with the lack or low enforcement of bad driving, late lane changing, brake checking etc is causing backlogs. I don't think we can soley sling the shoulders of the workers with the delays caused by drivers on mobile phones or going too fast and hitting barriers, which I am sure stops work until its cleared.

KOR101

A question on this argument about the work schedule.

Is it normal on projects of this size to carry out a formal economic assessment of costs and benefits of different schedules? Or is more a case of 'norms' being applied.

Sam Russell

Look at how long Newland Cross flyover took, and the appalling traffic jams caused by the works associated with that job, which was a lot smaller than the current works on the M7.

I drove through the works last evening (going north) and it was bumper to bumper, with the traffic travelling at about 60 kph.

[Deleted User]

There is an economic cost of congestion. It can be (and frequently is) estimated as losses to the general economy, and an estimate can be made as to how many millions of hours are lost to private individuals (social loss).

A cost-benefit analysis can be made for different completion lengths of the same project, to try balance cost-to-government against cost-to-businesses and cost-to-private individuals.

A cost-benefit analysis for different completion lengths is common across the world, whether on a public infrastructural project, private infrastructural project, or even a within-business project.

Posters aren't being unreasonable in their frustration, given the glacial pace of works and no published CBAs to help us understand why the works seemingly only ever have a small portion of the project being worked on at any one time.

Mantis Toboggan

I wouldn't blame SIAC for only doing the bare minimum as there's no real incentive for getting the works completed sooner. It's the government who should be taking the blame, this job should have been made a priority being the second busiest Road in the country. Look at the schools situation, they were able to get the workers in over the bank holiday weekend and last weekend to ensure the schools would be open today.

beertons

I drove the length of the works yesterday, didn't realise how far along the road they had gone. I think they're doing great.

serfboard

Kamili wrote: »

A massive part of the issue is that we are now at worse levels of traffic than have ever been seen before in the state, and with a poor public transport system in place its only set to get worse.

That's the problem - with Celtic Tiger 2.0, we're back to Celtic Tiger 1.0 numbers at work (over 2 million) and our infrastructure is creaking.

And one of the parts of our infrastructure that was over-planned back in its day and is not creaking is Dublin Airport, and the Moron For Transport wants to build a third terminal ... :rolleyes:

serfboard

Sam Russell wrote: »

Look at how long Newland Cross flyover took, and the appalling traffic jams caused by the works associated with that job, which was a lot smaller than the current works on the M7.

Newlands Cross is instructive. The day after that junction opened, the numbers going through it jumped by 20,000 vehicles :eek:

That took it to 90K. Now we're up to 106K AADT, with 120,000 vehicles going through it some days ...

benny79

This will never happen but I say it anyway.. To solve all the traffic congestion we need a proper underground, the likes of the Tube in London. That services all of Dublin and out to commuter towns (coming above ground if needs be) This should of being done instead of the Luas imo.. As traffic will continually get worse and a underground tube system is proven to work in many countries all over the world!

But like everything else common sense doesn't apply to the Governments of this Country to busy lining their own pockets!!

Thatnastyboy

benny79 wrote: »

This will never happen but I say it anyway.. To solve all the traffic congestion we need a proper underground, the likes of the Tube in London. That services all of Dublin and out to commuter towns (coming above ground if needs be) This should of being done instead of the Luas imo.. As traffic will continually get worse and a underground tube system is proven to work in many countries all over the world!

But like everything else common sense doesn't apply to the Governments of this Country to busy lining their own pockets!!

Yep, instead of spending 10s of billions on tunnels the guvermint keeps the cash for themselves. (just never really sure whether it's the cabinet members, senators, senior civil servants or who gets all the dosh but they must love it - the lucky ducks)

The Sallins ringroad will also be some godsend when done, I can see that alleviating a lot of the traffic currently experienced in clane/prosperous etc at the moment - The roads of that part of kildare are currently wedged a big long line of traffic at commuting hours due to the upgrades across the way - going to be a long dark winter.

WhatsGoingOn2

benny79 wrote: »

This will never happen but I say it anyway.. To solve all the traffic congestion we need a proper underground, the likes of the Tube in London. That services all of Dublin and out to commuter towns (coming above ground if needs be) This should of being done instead of the Luas imo.. As traffic will continually get worse and a underground tube system is proven to work in many countries all over the world!

But like everything else common sense doesn't apply to the Governments of this Country to busy lining their own pockets!!

And how long would that take? Between planning, financing, and actually implementing, it would be at least 20 years. At that point autonomous vehicles will be the norm, which will be the single biggest factor in reducing traffic on our roads. People won't own their own cars anymore, they will be able to summon them as required. And since people will not be in control, the traffic issues due to bad driving will be removed.

benny79

WhatsGoingOn2 wrote: »

And how long would that take? Between planning, financing, and actually implementing, it would be at least 20 years. At that point autonomous vehicles will be the norm, which will be the single biggest factor in reducing traffic on our roads. People won't own their own cars anymore, they will be able to summon them as required. And since people will not be in control, the traffic issues due to bad driving will be removed.

Eh you have to start somewhere! What do you think will happen when the upgrade is finished? Traffic will be ok for a while but due to population growth and more people driving it wont last long. We are already way behind on infrastructure.

There's over a thousand homes built at Rathcoole & loads more in Kildare town a lot of them will be feeding onto the naas road commuting. Hence more traffic. Newlands cross is only finished a few years Already overloaded with traffic same with the M50 widening.

SoupyNorman

benny79 wrote: »

Eh you have to start somewhere! What do you think will happen when the upgrade is finished? Traffic will be ok for a while but due to population growth and more people driving it wont last long. We are already way behind on infrastructure...

N7 needs to be 3 lanes up to J12, but I don’t believe just upgrading infrastructure is the way to keep approaching the issue everytime volume increases. Tackling volume is the issue.

Would it be a fair assumption that 80-90% of folks commuting are the only person in their car yet we’re all heading in the same direction for the most part yet carpooling is in no way incentivized of facilitated. I’d say just about every motorway exit has room for a municipal carpark where car poolers can meet and consolidate. I would personally love to have an arrangement going where I could share the driving with someone, saves on fuel for everyone and reduces volume….even, god forbid, put in a carpool lane on the N7 to further incentivize.

Pie in the sky I know, would require a culture change in the commuting population and would have to be funded and backed by the government but over time I think it could greatly reduce volumes.

_Kaiser_

SoupyNorman wrote: »

N7 needs to be 3 lanes up to J12, but I don’t believe just upgrading infrastructure is the way to keep approaching the issue everytime volume increases. Tackling volume is the issue.

Would it be a fair assumption that 80-90% of folks commuting are the only person in their car yet we’re all heading in the same direction for the most part yet carpooling is in no way incentivized of facilitated. I’d say just about every motorway exit has room for a municipal carpark where car poolers can meet and consolidate. I would personally love to have an arrangement going where I could share the driving with someone, saves on fuel for everyone and reduces volume….even, god forbid, put in a carpool lane on the N7 to further incentivize.

Pie in the sky I know, would require a culture change in the commuting population and would have to be funded and backed by the government but over time I think it could greatly reduce volumes.

It might work between friends or colleagues, but most people aren't going to share their car with a random stranger.

OldMrBrennan83

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It might work between friends or colleagues, but most people aren't going to share their car with a random stranger.

I wouldn't even want a colleague in the car with me. Every inch of the road I listen to what I want.