King Mob wrote: » So those firefighters are liars? Or are they in on it? Or...?
Cheerful Spring wrote: » They were genuinely concerned on the day the building was going to collapse.
Timberrrrrrrr wrote: » Maybe it wasnt steel so. They "claimed" to have seen molten steel, unless they are experts on molten metals then their claim is baseless. Have you ever seen a really bad accident? Or been involved in an armed robbery situation? I have and let me tell you, minutes after both events people were all giving statments as to what happened, very few of those statements matched up simply because if the trauma involved for them.
Cheerful Spring wrote: » Explosive or nano-thermite did this? .
Cheerful Spring wrote: » There no possible way in hell an office fire of 400c could have caused the steel in WTC7 to melt.
Dohnjoe wrote: » Wow, just wow. Maybe you should look at facts and science, instead of pseudo-science and an ever-morphing denialism Perhaps go to an engineering or architectural forum instead of a conspiracy theory forum Perhaps check with skeptics, you know, people who regularly debunk spurious theories like Holocaust denial, flat earth, climate change denial, Sandy Hook theories, anti-vaxxers, etc.
Dohnjoe wrote: » A kind reminder you're in the same category as energy weapons, Alex Jones, holograms, etc here. After 17 years you have no witnesses, no insiders, no suspects, no motive, no credible evidence, nothing.
Dohnjoe wrote: » A high-rise building being demolished in a secret controlled demolition in a massive giant secret coverup, in the middle of New York, under the scrutiny of the world's media, foreign intelligence agencies, the works.. yeah
Given the nature of the collapse, any investigation adhering to the scientific method should have seriously considered the controlled demolition hypothesis, if not started with it. Instead, NIST (as well as the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), which conducted a preliminary study prior to the NIST investigation) began with the predetermined conclusion that the collapse was caused by fires
Cheerful Spring wrote: » There a problem claiming it not molten steel and Iron. FEMA in 2002 reported finding a liquid made primarily of Iron and Sulphur!
We have positive proof in this Iron was melted. There no possible way in hell an office fire of 400c could have caused the steel in WTC7 to melt.
You only left with two options to consider. Explosive or nano-thermite did this? Or something in the rubble caused the steel to reach the stage of melting. I don't see what materials left in the rubble can melt steel?
Molten steel was reported by architects and engineers and construction crews also there during the cleanup. NIST denying anyone even said the word molten steel is not believable when you got video evidence of them claiming molten steel was spotted days and weeks and months after 9/11.
Dohnjoe wrote: » This thread is about alternative theories with credible supporting evidence
weisses wrote: » Just stop with the hyperbole ... Dont try to label me as a possible holocaust denier just because I have an issue with people who have a selective approach to science, investigations and evidence
Timberrrrrrrr wrote: » Cool, show us the report where this mystery liquid was examined and the results of the examination. Again, results of the tests that were carried out please. Well lets see thise results 1st that orove it's steel. Are these experts in molten metals? What examinations did they do? What tests did they do on samples?
King Mob wrote: » I've explained this to you in other threads many times.
King Mob wrote: » This thread is not about the official explanation.
King Mob wrote: » However, my point is that you guys are massive hypocrites.
King Mob wrote: » So you say that you have examples of skyscrapers being demolished by thermite (not nanothermite or thermate ).
Cheerful Spring wrote: » Official US government paper in 2002. This is pre NIST investigation of the twin towers collapse and WTC7 collapse.https://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_apc.pdf They clearly state a liquid made of Iron and Sulphur was found.
Suggestions for Future Research The severe corrosion and subsequent erosion of Samples 1 and 2 are a very unusual event. No clear explanation for the source of the sulfur has been identified. The rate of corrosion is also unknown. It is possible that this is the result of long-term heating in the ground following the collapse of the buildings. It is also possible that the phenomenon started prior to collapse and accelerated the weakening of the steel structure. A detailed study into the mechanisms of this phenomenon is needed to determine what risk, if any, is presented to existing steel structures exposed to severe and long-burning fires.
King Mob wrote: » Cheerful spring is a holocaust denier, just fyi. See the holocaust thread.
Timberrrrrrrr wrote: » From that link.
A detailed study into the mechanisms of this phenomenon is needed to determine what risk, if any, is presented to existing steel structures exposed to severe and long-burning fires.
weisses wrote: » Was a detailed study conducted by NIST ?
weisses wrote: » Just stop with the hyperbole ... Dont try to label me as a possible holocaust denier just because I have an issue with people who have a selective approach to science, investigations and evidence ...
Are you unable to read ?
A high rise building affected by partially burned out office fires all of a sudden collapses in a near symmetrical fashion reaching free fall acceleration, where every single expert claims it looks like controlled demolition .... but hey, that is normal right ?
Then there is NIST conducting a bogus investigation resulting in a valid discussion
weisses wrote: » Nope ... stop lying
weisses wrote: » My question to you wasn't either ... stop dodging
weisses wrote: » Am I a Hypocrite ?
weisses wrote: » Can you point out to the exact post cheerful claimed thermite was used to demolish skyscrapers prior to 9/11
weisses wrote: » He was quoting me
weisses wrote: » Is having solid supporting evidence necessary in the ct forum ? ...
Timberrrrrrrr wrote: » He quoted FEMA as some sort of gotcha moment, the FEMA report says damage was due to fire. Does he accept the FEMA report that fire caused the damage or is he going to (yet again) cherry pick certain sentences to suit his narrative? I know which option i would lay my money on
Dohnjoe wrote: » No need for the dramatics. At no point did I label you a holocaust denier (so don't twist my words thanks)
Dohnjoe wrote: » Again no need for this, thanks
Dohnjoe wrote: » Personal incredulity.
WTC 7 underwent free fall. When pressed about that matter during a technical briefing, Dr. Sunder dismissed it by saying, “[A] free-fall time would be an object that has no structural components below it.” But in the case of WTC 7, he claimed, “there was structural resistance that was provided.” Only after being challenged by high school physics teacher David Chandler and by physics professor Steven Jones (one of the authors of this article), who had measured the fall on video, did NIST acknowledge a 2.25-second period of free fall in its final report. Yet NIST’s computer model shows no such period of free fall, nor did NIST attempt to explain how WTC 7 could have had “no structural components below it” for eight stories. Instead, NIST’s final report provides an elaborate scenario involving an unprecedented failure mechanism: the thermal expansion of floor beams pushing an adjoining girder off its seat. The alleged walk-off of this girder then supposedly caused an eight-floor cascade of floor failures, which, combined with the failure of two other girder connections—also due to thermal expansion—left a key column unsupported over nine stories, causing it to buckle. This single column failure allegedly precipitated the collapse of the entire interior structure, leaving the exterior unsupported as a hollow shell. The exterior columns then allegedly buckled over a two-second period and the entire exterior fell simultaneously as a unit [3]. NIST was able to arrive at this scenario only by omitting or misrepresenting critical structural features in its computer modelling.[4] Correcting just one of these errors renders NIST’s collapse initiation indisputably impossible. Yet even with errors that were favorable to its predetermined conclusion, NIST’s computer model (see Fig. 3) fails to replicate the observed collapse, instead showing large deformations to the exterior that are not observed in the videos and showing no period of free fall. Also, the model terminates, without explanation, less than two seconds into the seven-second collapse. Unfortunately, NIST’s computer modelling cannot be independently verified because NIST has refused to release a large portion of its modelling data on the basis that doing so “might jeopardize public safety.”
Dohnjoe wrote: » Which is what this thread is about. There are other threads to attack the NIST in. People are being incredible patient with posters here considering the subject matter and large amount of faulty logic, deflections, dishonesty, and general denialism Again, you are representing an extreme view here (don't pretend otherwise) you are trying to suggest there was a controlled demolition, some people suggest there were hologram planes, some suggest energy weapons, but you refuse to support that notion with valid witnesses, suspects, motives, anything Therefore you aren't even on the same level as people suggesting those "whacky" theories
weisses wrote: » Steven Jones a former full professor of physics at Brigham Young University. Robert Korol a professor emeritus of civil engineering at McMaster University in Ontario, Canada, as well as a fellow of the Canadian Society for Civil Engineering and the Engineering Institute of Canada. Anthony Szamboti a mechanical design engineer with over 25 years of structural design experience in the aerospace and communications industries
Dr. Judy Wood earned a Ph.D. Degree from Virginia Tech and is a former professor of mechanical engineering. She has research expertise in experimental stress analysis, structural mechanics, deformation analysis, materials characterization and materials engineering science. Her research has involved testing materials, including complex-material systems, in the area of photomechanics, or the use of optical and image-analysis methods to determine physical properties of materials and measure how materials respond to forces placed on them. Her area of expertise involves interferometry in forensic science. She taught graduate and undergraduate engineering classes and has authored or co-authored over 60 peer-reviewed papers and journal publications in her areas of expertise.
King Mob wrote: » http://www.drjudywood.com/wp/dr-judy-wood-biography/
weisses wrote: » What extreme view am I representing ?
Cheerful Spring wrote: » Still waiting on you producing her 60 peer-reviewed papers. The people Weiss listed have credible backgrounds you can google search them and find they worked at these educational places. Dr Judy theory is backed only by herself. She has no credibility. I would not be surprised if she is got involved in the 9/11 conspiracy movement to debunk the real evidence. She goes out of her way to claim controlled demolition could not have happened, very strange.
King Mob wrote: » I haven't lied. I have explained the real explanation several times and it has been repeated to you above.
King Mob wrote: » But your question has been answered.
King Mob wrote: » Yup, cause you reject the fire explanation, but won't reject the thermite or explosive explanations when your logic is applied to them.
King Mob wrote: » Sure, the second you show the exact post I claimed he did.
King Mob wrote: » Cause I never claimed he did either. I know he didn't as he knows there's no such example. Yet he keeps harping on about how "there's no example of a fire taking down a building".
Cheerful Spring wrote: » FEMA report is the gotcha moment it exposes the NIST lies that came later.The fireS could not have caused the steel to melt in WTC7 we know that to be true in 2018 in 2002 they did know that.
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