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Recommend electric folding scooter for end of commute (Mod Note Post #1)

goz83

Mod Note: I've discussed with site admins, due to the current legal situation recommendations cannot be made for use of electric scooters on public roads in Ireland, but can be made for use on private property. However, we will allow discussion of e-scooters for purchase for use on private property, and other jurisdictions such as France/Germany where they are legal for use. This restriction will be lifted as soon as the legal situation changes, which will hopefully be soon.

I was thinking of getting one of those xiaomi m365 folding scooters to cover the last 5 kilometres of the journey as I come into the city and traffic gets mad. I am looking for peoples experiences with them.

I understand they are in a bit of a legal grey area, but you need to push this scooter to get going, so technically it doesn’t operate on mechanical power alone which is what the rsa site mentions as the definition of an mpv.

I’ll be travelling about 15km each way from urban to city. Due to a back injury, I can’t spend an hour stuck in traffic twice per day. I can’t tolerate public transport and it would be much more expensive (over €100 per month, compared to about €5 per month in my Leaf and m365).

So, my plan would be to drive about 10km and park the car before hitting the city centre. Parking would be free as I would be well outside the cc. I would then scoot the rest of the way to my destination and do the reverse on my return journey. I wouldn’t be stuck in traffic for too long and the range of the scooter should easily cover the return journey without destination charging. The scooter will cost around €400 to buy and claims 30km per charge...I am expecting 15.

What do you think?

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judavigo

quarryman wrote: »

I’m confused. So they are saying it needs to be taxed and insured? And yet they don’t indicate where you can get it insured?

That's right. So I suppose when we saw the first real cases of people being finned they will say that they are selling the scooters to be used in private areas, not in the streets.

I was hoping that they had something clear if they are taking the risk of selling these but they will also play in the grey area

grogi

quarryman wrote: »

I’m confused. So they are saying it needs to be taxed and insured? And yet they don’t indicate where you can get it insured?

Inability to make it legal does not mean it is not illegal.

Shefwedfan

quarryman wrote: »

I’m confused. So they are saying it needs to be taxed and insured? And yet they don’t indicate where you can get it insured?

They haven't a fecking clue....but instead of guess and saying no....they guess and say yes....nobody can pull them up for saying to buy insurance, someone can pull them up for saying not to buy insurance

quarryman

judavigo wrote: »

I contacted Three asking for an "official" position and they replied:

"Hi there ðŸ‘‹ The Road Safety Authority (RSA) considers that an electric scooter may be a mechanically propelled vehicle which if in a public place is subject to all of the regulatory controls applying to other vehicles which include that it be roadworthy, registered, taxed and insured. A user of an electric scooter must hold an appropriate driving licence and a crash helmet. It is illegal for a person under the age of 16 to use a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place. You are advised to consult the following for further information regarding electric scooters"
Also....
"The scooter will need to be insured. We don't offer insurance for mechanically propelled used vehicles but you can get this from a 3rd party."

I’m confused. So they are saying it needs to be taxed and insured? And yet they don’t indicate where you can get it insured?

judavigo

I contacted Three asking for an "official" position and they replied:

"Hi there 👋 The Road Safety Authority (RSA) considers that an electric scooter may be a mechanically propelled vehicle which if in a public place is subject to all of the regulatory controls applying to other vehicles which include that it be roadworthy, registered, taxed and insured. A user of an electric scooter must hold an appropriate driving licence and a crash helmet. It is illegal for a person under the age of 16 to use a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place. You are advised to consult the following for further information regarding electric scooters"
Also....
"The scooter will need to be insured. We don't offer insurance for mechanically propelled used vehicles but you can get this from a 3rd party."

Shefwedfan

quarryman wrote: »

Why is the subject of legality still being discussed? Did it not end after the first 3 pages?

Expect every 3-4 weeks someone else will ask a question and the same old conversation will start....it will be the same answers...it is grey area, nobody really know...someone will spend far too much time on google trying to prove they are right....after another page of posts it will die off and we can discuss the actually scooter.....then 3-4 weeks later same thing

griffdaddy

marcosmb25 wrote: »

Hello guys, I also have this scooter(xiaomi mi365).

Unfortunately due to a glass on the bike lane, I have a flat wheel to repair.

I took it to Freeman Repair Service close to Fitzwilliam in Dublin, but the guy wasnt able to change the tub.

Any idea where to take it for reparation? I have a new tube and the tools to fix it, but not to inflate the wheel or the skill to do it

You should try

Bee cycles

Dublin 8, 380 S Circular Rd, Dublin 8, D08 E0X7
086 889 5487 https://g.co/kgs/dnKeUp

Apparently the guy is a bit of a bike whisperer and can fix anything. I've never dealt with him though so can't comment. Sorry about the weird link, I'm on mobile. Alternatively you can try some slime stuff that seals the puncture. I put some in mine preemptively yesterday. Hoping I didn't damage the valves in the tyre though

beauf

quarryman wrote: »

Why is the subject of legality still being discussed? Did it not end after the first 3 pages?...

People don't do their homework apparently. Didn't really matter considering the lack of enforcement of more common vehicles.

Has anyone changed Tyres tubes and fixed punctures on them yet. Is it easy to do.

quarryman

Why is the subject of legality still being discussed? Did it not end after the first 3 pages?

Back on the topic of actual scooters:

If anyone is looking for a solid wheel replacement for their M365 I have pair of these new from Amazon that are surplus to requirements.

RHJ

Sorry don't want to drag this thread off topic but if someone is thinking of strapping a jet engine to their bike then this site will be useful for you.

https://maddoxjets.com

prinzeugen

beauf wrote: »

I assume it doesn't fall under any class of vehicle. So it can't be taxed or insured for road use. Like the scooters they aren't illegal. They just aren't legal on the road or the path. Is that what you mean?

Still like to see the statute you're referring too.

There is no statute regarding direct jet powered cycles. Thats the point. The definition of MPV does not mention jets or turbines and by definition a direct jet is not mechanical propulsion. (A jet turbine linked to a gearbox WOULD be a MPV).

There is nothing in law to say that you can't take a jet powered cycle on the road. Its just a cycle as far as the law is concerned.

They could do you for noise pollution though!

Edit - RTA 1961 "
“pedal bicycle” means a bicycle which is intended or adapted for propulsion solely by the physical exertions of a person or persons seated thereon; "

So a cycle stops being a cycle when you remove the physical element.

beauf

I assume it doesn't fall under any class of vehicle. So it can't be taxed or insured for road use. Like the scooters they aren't illegal. They just aren't legal on the road or the path. Is that what you mean?

Still like to see the statute you're referring too.

prinzeugen

beauf wrote: »

Can you link or quote the statute that makes that legal. What do you mean by legal.

What I should have said is its not illegal. The laws only cover "mechanical propulsion" .

A jet is a reaction engine not a mechanical one and there is no mechanical transmission from the engine to the wheels.

beauf

prinzeugen wrote: »

...Interestingly, you can strap a model jet engine on the back of a push bike and it would be legal in theory as there is no direct drive to the wheels.

Can you link or quote the statute that makes that legal. What do you mean by legal.

prinzeugen

This came up years ago and a mate thats in the Traffic Corps said that "if the motor or engine is capable of propelling the vehicle at any point without physical effort by the user at the same time it is a MPV".

Interestingly, you can strap a model jet engine on the back of a push bike and it would be legal in theory as there is no direct drive to the wheels.

ted1

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why do I need to argue when I am right?

Other people agree with me:

https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/news/chinas-xiaomi-enters-irish-market-with-three-scooter-and-phones-sales-tieup-37479634.html
The launch represents a stepping up of electric scooter sales in Ireland, despite legal and regulatory challenges. Under Irish law, many electric scooters are regarded in a similar category as motorbikes, meaning that they must be taxed and insured, with a driver's licence required.
However, Xiaomi's Mi Electric Scooter requires a manual push start like an electric bicycle. Ebikes are not required to be taxed and insured, nor do they require a driver's licence

The engine in electric bikes only works while peddling. If you stop peddling the engine by law cuts out.

ted1

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What is the legal status of electric/battery powered scooters?
The use of these types of scooters has become very popular in recent years, especially with children. The legal position is that if one of these scooters can be powered by mechanical or electrical power alone, and does not require pedalling or scooting for propulsion, then the scooter is considered to be a mechanically propelled vehicle (MPV) in terms of road traffic legislation, irrespective of engine capacity. If such scooters are to be used in any public place, they require insurance and road tax as with any other MPV. The driver would also require a driving licence and is obliged to wear a crash helmet. If the user of such a scooter cannot fulfil these legal requirements, then the scooter should only be used on private property.

Reading this statement it is clear the M365 does not meet this requirement. It will not start without you having to push off....so it does require scooting for propulsion.....

Nonsense it has to assist not keep going

Johnboy1951

I suspect that when such devices become more popular the Garda will have a serious job ignoring them, and they will receive instructions on what they should do, rather than relying, as seems to be the case presently, on what some colleague says is their interpretation of the law.

A few complaints from other road users is all it will take I reckon .....

beauf

It was all discussed in the first 3 pages of this thread.

The conclusion then is the same as now. Don't be an idiot and likely a blind eye will be turned. Unless you get a cop having a bad day or are unlucky and cause someone an injury.

Just a pity they don't clarify it. But then it took them years to sort out mandatory use of cycle lane. So I wouldn't hold your breath.

Be nice if we had some long term report of people experiences who have been using scooters. There's some on the web but I've not seen anything from Ireland other then the short comments on this thread. In other places they have become a viable transport alternative for people. Bit like the boosted boards and similar.

Shefwedfan

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Are you arguing that it would be legal for him to drive on the road?
If he cannot get a licence, road tax, insurance and a cert of roadworthiness then he cannot be legal regardless.

I am not arguing anything....

This reminds me of thread on motors forum, I asked about putting a tank of diesel up....at the end someone had convinced himself that I would require planning for a jungle gym in my garden :eek::eek::eek:

Sorry correction

Both you and Beauf seem to think you know what you are talking about.....carry on

But might be idea to open a new thread, I dont think people need to see 5-6 pages of this

beauf

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why do I need to argue when I am right?

Other people agree with me:

https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/news/chinas-xiaomi-enters-irish-market-with-three-scooter-and-phones-sales-tieup-37479634.html
The launch represents a stepping up of electric scooter sales in Ireland, despite legal and regulatory challenges. Under Irish law, many electric scooters are regarded in a similar category as motorbikes, meaning that they must be taxed and insured, with a driver's licence required.
However, Xiaomi's Mi Electric Scooter requires a manual push start like an electric bicycle. Ebikes are not required to be taxed and insured, nor do they require a driver's licence

Correction, you're agreeing with the indo, and you don't even know if what they wrote is correct.

They called it a push start. Which isn't scooting.
Though scooting doesn't mean what you're implying. You could say I'm scooting down to the shops in the car.
You don't push start an electric bicycle. Those bicycles with petrol motors do actually need a push start. They are not legal.
Electric bicycle is a not a useful description, as there are different classes of bicycles. Some legal and some not legal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle.

I hope they do put some rules in to make eScooters legal. They are have eScooter Sharing schemes in some US cities like BleeperBikes do here.
Probably a bigger issue is the poor surface and interface between roads and paths here. Some are too bad for bicycles. Never mind a tiny scooter wheel.
Great device. Very hard to securely lock them though.

Johnboy1951

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What is a beak?

As above, based on your information my 3 year old now requires a license, insurance and tax

His car doesn't even push start, you just floor it and go......

Are you arguing that it would be legal for him to drive on the road?
If he cannot get a licence, road tax, insurance and a cert of roadworthiness then he cannot be legal regardless.

Shefwedfan

beauf wrote: »

That you won't argue your point, means you don't believe in it either.

Why do I need to argue when I am right?

Other people agree with me:

https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/news/chinas-xiaomi-enters-irish-market-with-three-scooter-and-phones-sales-tieup-37479634.html
The launch represents a stepping up of electric scooter sales in Ireland, despite legal and regulatory challenges. Under Irish law, many electric scooters are regarded in a similar category as motorbikes, meaning that they must be taxed and insured, with a driver's licence required.
However, Xiaomi's Mi Electric Scooter requires a manual push start like an electric bicycle. Ebikes are not required to be taxed and insured, nor do they require a driver's licence

beauf

Shefwedfan wrote: »

...
His car doesn't even push start, you just floor it and go......

You should test your theory, use it to get to work some day.

beauf

Shefwedfan wrote: »

and does not require pedalling or scooting for propulsion

Just to highlight the part again

The M365 does require scooting for propulsion

I do expect 3-4 pages of people now arguing over this so off you go...I have better thing to do with my life .

That you won't argue your point, means you don't believe in it either.

Shefwedfan

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

You could try arguing that with the beak, but I doubt it would be accepted.
It CAN be driven without use of pedal or push, just not started like that.

How about disabling the electric start on your car and see how you would fare?

What is a beak?

As above, based on your information my 3 year old now requires a license, insurance and tax

His car doesn't even push start, you just floor it and go......

Johnboy1951

Shefwedfan wrote: »

and does not require pedalling or scooting for propulsion

Just to highlight the part again

The M365 does require scooting for propulsion

I do expect 3-4 pages of people now arguing over this so off you go...I have better thing to do with my life .

You could try arguing that with the beak, but I doubt it would be accepted.
It CAN be driven without use of pedal or push, just not started like that.

How about disabling the electric start on your car and see how you would fare?

Shefwedfan

beauf wrote: »

Pushing off isn't scooting.

Otherwise you could just push start a car.

and does not require pedalling or scooting for propulsion

Just to highlight the part again

The M365 does require scooting for propulsion

I do expect 3-4 pages of people now arguing over this so off you go...I have better thing to do with my life

beauf

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What is the legal status of electric/battery powered scooters?
The use of these types of scooters has become very popular in recent years, especially with children. The legal position is that if one of these scooters can be powered by mechanical or electrical power alone, and does not require pedalling or scooting for propulsion, then the scooter is considered to be a mechanically propelled vehicle (MPV) in terms of road traffic legislation, irrespective of engine capacity. If such scooters are to be used in any public place, they require insurance and road tax as with any other MPV. The driver would also require a driving licence and is obliged to wear a crash helmet. If the user of such a scooter cannot fulfil these legal requirements, then the scooter should only be used on private property.

Reading this statement it is clear the M365 does not meet this requirement. It will not start without you having to push off....so it does require scooting for propulsion.....

Pushing off isn't scooting.

Otherwise you could just push start a car.

Shefwedfan

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It does have an accelerator though...

so does this, I haven't seen the Garda pull over my 3 year old yet:P

Has a gear box as well....2 forward/1 reverse...not sure if that counts.....

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