Bolsonaro next president of Brazil.

vetinari wrote: »

It's becoming a disturbing pattern.
Far right leaders managing to brand themselves as populists that are fighting for the common man.
It's utter rubbish. What's worse is that the media invariably go easy on these candidates.
They don't call it what it is, a candidate of the rich masquerading as a candidate for the people.

Trump, Farage, Bolsonaro, they're all the same type of chancer.

Trump was a billionaire.
Farage was a commodities trader.
Bolsonaro doesn't appear to be as monied as the other two chancers.
This snippet from wikipedia shows that he shares the same values.
"While working in Congress, Jair Bolsonaro hired his wife, Michelle, as a secretary and over the next two years she received unusual promotions and her salary more than tripled. He was forced to fire her after the Supreme Federal Court ruled that nepotism is illegal in the public administration."

Isn't the only other person that could've won the election a leftist that was disallowed from running because he's currently in prison for money laundering?

vetinari

It's becoming a disturbing pattern.
Far right leaders managing to brand themselves as populists that are fighting for the common man.
It's utter rubbish. What's worse is that the media invariably go easy on these candidates.
They don't call it what it is, a candidate of the rich masquerading as a candidate for the people.

Trump, Farage, Bolsonaro, they're all the same type of chancer.

Trump was a billionaire.
Farage was a commodities trader.
Bolsonaro doesn't appear to be as monied as the other two chancers.
This snippet from wikipedia shows that he shares the same values.
"While working in Congress, Jair Bolsonaro hired his wife, Michelle, as a secretary and over the next two years she received unusual promotions and her salary more than tripled. He was forced to fire her after the Supreme Federal Court ruled that nepotism is illegal in the public administration."

Eric Cartman

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Screw it, I'll bite. What put Allende and his government on a par of the likes of Escobar & Co.?

I have mentioned neither Allende or Escobar,

This is a thread about Bolsonaro and there was a mild comparison to Pinochet, both of those figures are / were (respectively) less damaging to their nation than Chavez was to Venezuela.

PopePalpatine

Eric Cartman wrote: »

"Pinochet did what had to be done" what a hero.
I disagree with his stance on women and gays , but his stance on criminals and communists is spot on, a mixed bag, but certainly less destructive and less dangerous than other south american leaders like Chavez

Screw it, I'll bite. What put Allende and his government on a par of the likes of Escobar & Co.?

Eric Cartman

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Election returns show that Bolsonaro won in 97% of the richest districts in Brazil - Haddad won in 98% of the poorest districts.

This is class warfare by the far-right.

Its class warfare on both sides , we see it in every country, even here people like paul murphy blame the rich and companies and a boogeyman '1%' for all the problems, once you get anywhere +/- 5 clicks of dead center its all about blaming the other side for all your ills.

Winning anything because all the poorest voted for you is without fail always a result of offering free things you cant afford.

Eric Cartman

"Pinochet did what had to be done" what a hero.
I disagree with his stance on women and gays , but his stance on criminals and communists is spot on, a mixed bag, but certainly less destructive and less dangerous than other south american leaders like Chavez

ancapailldorcha

Mod: We have plenty of Political Correctness threads on this site. I'd prefer this thread to be specifically focused on Brazil. Post deleted.

Good loser

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Election returns show that Bolsonaro won in 97% of the richest districts in Brazil - Haddad won in 98% of the poorest districts.

This is class warfare by the far-right.

The fact that the 'Workers Party' was corrupt from top to bottom didn't help.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Bolsonaro's power base is among the military and the rural ranchers.

How much of the vote did they make up?

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

This on top of the murder of Aloisio Sampaio - leader of a landless peasant movement - and others two weeks ago.

On top of the attempted murder of the current leader a few weeks before that, seems like a fairly poisonous climate all round.

Dohnjoe

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

There is a revoltion coming by ordinary people and workers and it won't be pretty.

No "revolution" is coming. Populists are just getting better at using unfettered social media and (dis)information via the internet to tap into people's emotions rather than their common sense

Same ****, different angle. It works.

Election returns show that Bolsonaro won in 97% of the richest districts in Brazil - Haddad won in 98% of the poorest districts.

This is class warfare by the far-right.

hill16bhoy wrote: »

At the risk of link dumping, this is the sort of thing Bolsonaro has unleashed on Brazil. But I suppose, on the plus side, at least he's "upsetting the cosy PC liberal do gooder consensus" or whatever vacuous troll soundbyte you're having yourself.

It's really amazing how the anti-immigrant "white genocide" theorists seem to fall totally silent when indigenous communities in the Americas, Australia or wherever are the ones being persecuted and/or discriminated against.

https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1056902877413806080

This on top of the murder of Aloisio Sampaio - leader of a landless peasant movement - and others two weeks ago.

Akrasia

This is a guy who wants a civil war so he has an excuse to round up and imprison or exile his political opponents. He's gonna go in hard and any reaction against him will be used as pretext for martial law.

Its not going to go well for the poor and poorly connected

pixelburp

RandomName2 wrote: »

Eh, the one thing a strongman wannabe dictator is good for is reducing crime (and non-state sanctioned violence).

Da Silva would have won hands-down if he hadn't been convicted.

Thing about authoritarian strongmen, is they're not exactly well known for being rigorous adherents of due process and the rule of law; it is kind of their thing to shoot first, so to speak. And as enticing an idea as punishing criminals with prejudice might be, abandoning the norms usually results in innocents being killed or thrown behind bars. I expect those in the favelas to be watching their backs - nor the murder numbers to lower.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Do you know much about where Bolsonaro‘s vote comes from? Dismissing his voters as racist or sexist or blah blah blah isn’t generally helpful.

Looks like quite a lot of different classes voted for him.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/10/26/its-not-just-the-right-thats-voting-for-bolsonaro-its-everyone-far-right-brazil-corruption-center-left-anger-pt-black-gay-racism-homophobia/

Shouting at voters doesn’t help, if there’s a genuine fear of crime and it’s not being solved eventually someone will come along and solve it.

Bolsonaro's power base is among the military and the rural ranchers.

Das Reich wrote: »

Hope the country now will drop the figure of 60.000 homicides every year.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/28/jair-bolsonaro-wins-brazil-presidential-election

Bolsonaro criticised the previous Brazilian dictatorship - for not killing enough people and not being vicious enough.

RandomName2

oscarBravo wrote: »

I admire your optimism, but has electing a far-right strongman wannabe dictator ever led to better outcomes for a country?

Eh, the one thing a strongman wannabe dictator is good for is reducing crime (and non-state sanctioned violence).

Da Silva would have won hands-down if he hadn't been convicted.

What's the article like?

It seems the BBC is willing to take the concept of false balance to extraordinary levels.

A couple of weeks of ago it was climate change denial on Newsnight, now this.

Fascism, "refreshing" the parts others can't reach. FFS.

Still "marketplace of ideas", or something something.

Disgraceful.

jameshealy19

oscarBravo wrote: »

Das Reich wrote: »

Hope the country now will drop the figure of 60.000 homicides every year.

I admire your optimism, but has electing a far-right strongman wannabe dictator ever led to better outcomes for a country?

Singapore did very well

I wonder how the stabbing last month influenced voters..

Franz Von Peppercorn

hill16bhoy wrote: »

At the risk of link dumping, this is the sort of thing Bolsonaro has unleashed on Brazil. But I suppose, on the plus side, at least he's "upsetting the cosy PC liberal do gooder consensus" or whatever vacuous troll soundbyte you're having yourself.

It's really amazing how the anti-immigrant "white genocide" theorists seem to fall totally silent when indigenous communities in the Americas, Australia or wherever are the ones being persecuted and/or discriminated against.

https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1056902877413806080

You’re accusing people of falling silent about something that’s just been posted. By you. Probably for the first time.

Conversely as someone who knows something about South America I know this kind of stuff goes on all the time. It’s appalling. However did RTE or the BBC ever cover this kind of stuff before? About the same as Yemen. Nothing.

A few years ago when black lives mattered in the US there were similar incidents in the favelas in Brazil , to utter silence. Same as the incredibly one sided reporting on Honduras. I note in passing that Monbiot was a tepid defender of US imperialism in Syria.

At the risk of link dumping, this is the sort of thing Bolsonaro has unleashed on Brazil. But I suppose, on the plus side, at least he's "upsetting the cosy PC liberal do gooder consensus" or whatever vacuous troll soundbyte you're having yourself.

It's really amazing how the anti-immigrant "white genocide" theorists seem to fall totally silent when indigenous communities in the Americas, Australia or wherever are the ones being persecuted and/or discriminated against.

https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1056902877413806080

oscarBravo

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

There is a revoltion coming by ordinary people and workers and it won't be pretty.

Revolutions never are, and the ultimate victims of revolutions are always - always - ordinary people and workers. People should be careful what they wish for.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Shouting at voters doesn’t help, if there’s a genuine fear of crime and it’s not being solved eventually someone will come along and solve it.

You're almost right. It would be more accurate to say that someone will come along and promise to solve it. It's easy to get elected as a populist: you just tell the people what they want to hear. It's harder to stay in power, which is why populism goes so readily hand in hand with authoritarianism. Having lied their way into power, they have to violently suppress dissent in order to hold on to it.

I fear for Brazil. Normally authoritarian populists hide their true colours until after they're elected. There's something positively surreal about a country electing someone on the promise, basically, of authoritarianism.

Nody wrote: »

We're talking cash in suitcase kind of obvious corruption going on there and has for decades which is why people vote in someone from the outside.

The greatest trick the devil Bolsonaro ever pulled was painting himself as a political outsider. He's been an elected politician since 1991. It's as if Éamon Ó Cuív were to put himself forward for the presidency on the basis of being a change from politics as usual - if Ó Cuív were a fascist psychopath.

Franz Von Peppercorn

hill16bhoy wrote: »

From a poster whose entire worldview appears to consist of deliberately simplistic Orwellian buzzwords and buzzphrases used by the US right, which are used exclusively to troll and shut down debate, the irony is very strong with this one.

Any samples of this? I generally stay away from any such rhetoric. My posts are generally fairly neutral. Although of course I oppose the modern American left.

There really does seem to be no end to the right-wing blizzard of bull**** either online or in the traditional media.

And there’s me thinking I was an economic leftist. I encourage you to join me. We never do see you in posts about the housing crisis (where I strongly support state housing as a search will reveal). . I’m also anti American imperialism and have argued against their involvement in Yemen, Libya and Syria. I encourage you to join me but your views on American imperialism are unknown. You just throw generalised ad hominems, anybody who doesn’t shout American leftism is a right winger.

Bolsonaro's propaganda wars and large scale use of fake "stories" being perhaps the worst offender yet.

Maybe. I strongly suspect that you’ve recently found out all your information about Brazil in the last few hours from Think Progress of similar. If only they covered Yemen, Libya, or Saudi Arabia or other US allies.

I’ve been to Brazil and have an ex over there. Not that I claim to understand the country but I know more than you and your trite Americanised sound bites.

Das Reich

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You can see the problem right there. Hill16Bhoy is throwing the old buzz words of the Americanised left (racism, evangelicalism etc etc) at a fairly complex society rather than ask why B got so many votes to begin with from all stratum of society.

You are right. In Brazil the nostalgia of the military regime reflect the result of election. All the left did there was shouting things like "racist" to dark people who voted for him, "homofobic" to gays that voted for him and "misogynist" to women who voted for him. At facebook comments, they were the first ones to be racist, "you are black you can't vote for him, you have to vote for who I tell you". And look at what this person wrote before "I generally find that candidates who pain themselves as anti-corruption are far worse than those they claim to rail against.". I also find the peolpe who paint themselves as democratic or antiracist far worse than those they claim to rail against.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You can see the problem right there. Hill16Bhoy is throwing the old buzz words of the Americanised left (racism, evangelicalism etc etc) at a fairly complex society rather than ask why B got so many votes to begin with from all stratum of society.

From a poster whose entire worldview appears to consist of deliberately simplistic Orwellian buzzwords and buzzphrases used by the US right, which are used exclusively to troll and shut down debate, the irony is very strong with this one.

There really does seem to be no end to the right-wing blizzard of bull**** either online or in the traditional media. I mean on this very thread there's a poster whose user name, from looking at their posting history, appears be a very un-ironic reference to the Nazis.

Bolsonaro's propaganda wars and large scale use of fake "stories" being perhaps the worst offender yet.

Franz Von Peppercorn

You can see the problem right there. Hill16Bhoy is throwing the old buzz words of the Americanised left (racism, evangelicalism etc etc) at a fairly complex society rather than ask why B got so many votes to begin with from all stratum of society.