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Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

TheFitz13

Dublin Airport has planning permission to build a new parallel runway to the north of the existing main runway. The Regulator has determined that this new runway can only be funded by airport users when annual passenger volumes through Dublin Airport reach 23.5 million. Annualised passenger numbers in 2012 will be in the region of 19 million and current forecasts indicate that the 23.5 million target for bringing a new runway into operation, will be reached in or about 2019. What do you all think?

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ozzy jr

Was there ever any talk of building a rail tunnel when the Port tunnel was being dug? They could have sent the Luas from Airport, down the motorway, into tunnel and link up with Luas at the Point.

Noxegon

Dublin Port Tunnel was built in 2006. The Luas extension to The Point only happened in 2009.

It'd make more sense to send Luas above ground anyway.

Locker10a

ozzy jr wrote: »

goingnowhere wrote: »

Problem is Dublin, gates and taxi times.

Was on a recent Air France flight to CDG. The pilot was giving out over the intercom about how Dublin has only 1 runway. We were in a queue for quite a while.

Air traffic management at Dublin and Ireland is woefully backward

Donegal Storm

L1011 wrote: »

The DAA rep did a decent job on radio yesterday pointing out that a terminal is just a check in area and baggage system, neither of which are the capacity issues currently. DAA want piers first, Lord Churchtown is just confused as usual

Not the biggest issue today but if the projected increase in traffic to between 50 and 60 million happens then check in and security will be a huge issue. T2 security has always been a breeze but this summer I had regular queues upwards of 15 minutes. If traffic is to increase another 75-100% with no equivalent increase in check in/security area then it'll eventually grind to a halt.

lufties wrote: »

What extra traffic do the expect in dublin? EI can't see past north America, and I'd argue other carriers are not banging the door down for DUB. That leaves FR, who are expanding rapidly. Therefore an LCC terminal is the most logical.

There's been an unprecedented increase in both traffic and new/returning airlines in the past 5 years and showing no signs of slowing down, there's already approx 15 extra routes due for next Summer and if the long mooted EI/FR partnership happens it should fuel a further large growth spurt. Eventually you'd think we'll hit a point of saturation but if the hub strategy pays off then sky's very much the limit

Locker10a

Donegal Storm wrote: »

L1011 wrote: »

The DAA rep did a decent job on radio yesterday pointing out that a terminal is just a check in area and baggage system, neither of which are the capacity issues currently. DAA want piers first, Lord Churchtown is just confused as usual

Not the biggest issue today but if the projected increase in traffic to between 50 and 60 million happens then check in and security will be a huge issue. T2 security has always been a breeze but this summer I had regular queues upwards of 15 minutes. If traffic is to increase another 75-100% with no equivalent increase in check in/security area then it'll eventually grind to a halt.

lufties wrote: »

What extra traffic do the expect in dublin? EI can't see past north America, and I'd argue other carriers are not banging the door down for DUB. That leaves FR, who are expanding rapidly. Therefore an LCC terminal is the most logical.

There's been an unprecedented increase in both traffic and new/returning airlines in the past 5 years and showing no signs of slowing down, there's already approx 15 extra routes due for next Summer and if the long mooted EI/FR partnership happens it should fuel a further large growth spurt. Eventually you'd think we'll hit a point of saturation but if the hub strategy pays off then sky's very much the limit

If they deployed a security system like in Gatwick south terminal they could increase security capacity a lot, hopefully this will be done in the future

L1011

Anything to speed up the taking of trays would be nice - the scanners operate at a fraction of capacity due to the ridiculous faffing and interrogation of passengers who clearly know what they're doing.

Have used plenty of auto-intake completely unmanned at that stage systems, they usually end up going too quick for the metal detector portal to take everyone through!

lufties

Donegal Storm wrote: »

Not the biggest issue today but if the projected increase in traffic to between 50 and 60 million happens then check in and security will be a huge issue. T2 security has always been a breeze but this summer I had regular queues upwards of 15 minutes. If traffic is to increase another 75-100% with no equivalent increase in check in/security area then it'll eventually grind to a halt.

There's been an unprecedented increase in both traffic and new/returning airlines in the past 5 years and showing no signs of slowing down, there's already approx 15 extra routes due for next Summer and if the long mooted EI/FR partnership happens it should fuel a further large growth spurt. Eventually you'd think we'll hit a point of saturation but if the hub strategy pays off then sky's very much the limit

Yeah, it fecks me off that its all Dublin centric though. Shannon has a big capacity but its all but forgotten about. Yes I know Shannon is a kip of a place, but if it was connected well to DUB, we might see some development.

Idbatterim

How can you have a hub if there is absolutely no critical mass? Shannon cork etc , sure Norwegian can’t even make a go of the routes without competition!

MJohnston

There's an interesting conundrum for any airport designer/planner at the minute - security queues are currently largely held up by the process of getting people to unpack their carry on bags. But the new 3D CT scanners being trialled in the US would let you keep everything in your bag, even liquids, unless addition screening was needed.

So it could very well be the case that in a few years, we're all getting through security a fair bit quicker, and any plans for extra capacity would be a waste.

Conflats

MJohnston wrote:

There's an interesting conundrum for any airport designer/planner at the minute - security queues are currently largely held up by the process of getting people to unpack their carry on bags. But the new 3D CT scanners being trialled in the US would let you keep everything in your bag, even liquids, unless addition screening was needed.

The scanners in Amsterdam Schiphol allow you to leave everything in the bag including liquids. Security is a breeze.

Biggest thing I find with security is people acting all surprised after being asked to take out liquids and take off jewellery.

By and large security isn't bad it's the arrival is a bigger issue, immigration is a joke, the queues can be 20 minutes at times. Then you have the electronic gates which aren't any quicker rather just less manpower needed

[Deleted User]

Possibly would help if they had the lead up area with trays and the exit areas were longer. So that more people were prepared before they got to walk through and that it was easier for people to collect and go on the far side.

They may as well have the people standing queuing actively doing something to help the flow rather than standing and just queuing. I’m ready before I even get my boarding pass checked. But 95% of people haven’t even started.

A trial should be done to have the prep area before the belt for the X-ray machine. So that more people could be ready to walk up to the belt and ready to walk through. Have space for 20-30 people to prep and staff to make sure they are ready before moving forward to place their trays.

On the far side there isn’t enough space for what people inevitably do which is to start putting everything back where it came from on the down ramp for the trays. So the trays start backing up and I can’t get mine to walk to the very rear tables and sort myself out clear of the area. I’ve noticed lately in many airports that the tray ramp is full of empty trays and I have to deposit 5-6 trays in the collection area to get the flow going again. This down ramp should be behind glass to force the flow of people to the rear clear of the pat down area and the collection area should be 2-3 times longer than it is.

Dublin really hasn’t made the security area large enough. Meaning it all feels very cramped and crushed when busy. People then start to feed off each other’s building impatience. Unfortunately for the DAA any extra space is dead in terms of income.

BigMoose

Agree re idiots not helping in security. I've noticed more and more recently the number of folk who insist on repacking slowly at the by now full ramp and then sod off leaving the empty tray on the ramp... Some airports strongly encourage you to clear off with tray to the provided tables but many dont. Wouldn't say the DUB layout is worse than many others, just perhaps has a bigger ratio of idiots? Although that's not restricted to Dub...

Noxegon

The one that gets me is the people who insist on standing right at the machine end of the ramp to collect their bag and reassemble. Why is walking to the far end so difficult?

MJohnston

Noxegon wrote: »

The one that gets me is the people who insist on standing right at the machine end of the ramp to collect their bag and reassemble. Why is walking to the far end so difficult?

People who do that, even though they know that you were ahead of them on the conveyor, so their stuff will come out after yours. :mad:

Cloudio9

Locker10a wrote: »

If they deployed a security system like in Gatwick south terminal they could increase security capacity a lot, hopefully this will be done in the future

Its amazing. Did it for an early morning flight in July which you’d expect to be a nightmare. Best security experience I’ve had anywhere.

Idbatterim

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Its amazing. Did it for an early morning flight in July which you’d expect to be a nightmare. Best security experience I’ve had anywhere.

what system do they operate in Gatwick?

trellheim

Exactly the same as we do in terms of type of infrastructure. The difference is they staff fully to deal with the capacity required. We never staff all our belts even at peak times. This is the same both in T1 and T2.

I have never understood this as less time in the screening means more shopping revenue so more money down the road for DAA they can charge in rental.

Chris_5339762

No, Gatwick have far better designed preparation areas in the queue. You have seven different people standing getting their case ready and their stuff out and they can go into the metal detectors in any order. There are another seven queueing behind them.

Ok, so you still only have one xray scanner which negates this a little... but it still has a much higher throughput that Dublin. There are also plenty of wide places to pick up your trays and put them so you can get your stuff back in after security. Little steps to put your feet on so you can put your shoes back on etc etc.

If you want a model of airport security, look at Gatwick. They even had a comments board after security for a while for people to write on, all the staff seem friendly there. Its the little things.

trellheim

Yes, I forgot the prep and the footprints to get you prepped. Sorry. However, I cant help but feel that the belt throughput is still the limiting factor.

Jamie2k9

Consultation on €900 million capital projects has started meanwhile IAG have criticized plans for T3 at Dublin.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/walsh-we-dont-need-third-dublin-air-terminal-37464034.html?fbclid=IwAR2fYE4lOhmnhjxQ1kGtPBlgHB6PfAN1wKuT_E27uWN4ipcdEKMgg_YYLI0

[Deleted User]

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Consultation on €900 million capital projects has started meanwhile IAG have criticized plans for T3 at Dublin.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/walsh-we-dont-need-third-dublin-air-terminal-37464034.html?fbclid=IwAR2fYE4lOhmnhjxQ1kGtPBlgHB6PfAN1wKuT_E27uWN4ipcdEKMgg_YYLI0

New taxiways and stands delayed by 6 months as Fingal CoCo won’t allow them be constructed under strategic airport infrastructure so they require full planning. I honestly don’t get why they need it as they don’t affect anyone outside of the airport and surely if there is a minimum requirement for stuff like rain water run off then they could monitor the construction etc to make sure they do. These are needed ASAP but now it’s looking like Q3/4 2019 for commencement and 12-18 months for construction as they will have limited windows to avoid impacting ops.

trellheim

IAG owns Aer Lingus, British Airways and Spanish carriers Iberia and Vueling - all of which operate at Dublin.

spanish airline owner complains lol

Do Vueling fly to dublin ?

Jacovs

trellheim wrote: »

spanish airline owner complains lol

Do Vueling fly to dublin ?

Yes, BCN-DUB

trellheim

they say you learn something every day. Thanks for that !

Jamie2k9

Runway contract awarded to Roadbridge ans FCC Construction.

https://www.dublinairport.com/latest-news/detail/daa-awards-north-runway-construction-contract-to-irish-spanish-consortium

trellheim

Was price made public ?

Nijmegen

Deleted User wrote: »

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Consultation on €900 million capital projects has started meanwhile IAG have criticized plans for T3 at Dublin.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/walsh-we-dont-need-third-dublin-air-terminal-37464034.html?fbclid=IwAR2fYE4lOhmnhjxQ1kGtPBlgHB6PfAN1wKuT_E27uWN4ipcdEKMgg_YYLI0

New taxiways and stands delayed by 6 months as Fingal CoCo won’t allow them be constructed under strategic airport infrastructure so they require full planning. I honestly don’t get why they need it as they don’t affect anyone outside of the airport and surely if there is a minimum requirement for stuff like rain water run off then they could monitor the construction etc to make sure they do. These are needed ASAP but now it’s looking like Q3/4 2019 for commencement and 12-18 months for construction as they will have limited windows to avoid impacting ops.

We know what a joke planning is in this country. We’re either doing it completely cowboy or we’re holding up strategic projects, ala Apple Athenry, until they go away. There’s no happy medium it seems.

trellheim

ok found the presentation - slide 87 of http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9NDEyOTk5fENoaWxkSUQ9LTF8VHlwZT0z&t=1&cb=636767387686116875

Kermit.de.frog

"Underpass", are people expected to walk that distance? lol

Or is it for buses? Dunno.

Locker10a

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

"Underpass", are people expected to walk that distance? lol

Or is it for buses? Dunno.

For busses to go to remote stands