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Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

TheFitz13

Dublin Airport has planning permission to build a new parallel runway to the north of the existing main runway. The Regulator has determined that this new runway can only be funded by airport users when annual passenger volumes through Dublin Airport reach 23.5 million. Annualised passenger numbers in 2012 will be in the region of 19 million and current forecasts indicate that the 23.5 million target for bringing a new runway into operation, will be reached in or about 2019. What do you all think?

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trellheim

Exactly the same as we do in terms of type of infrastructure. The difference is they staff fully to deal with the capacity required. We never staff all our belts even at peak times. This is the same both in T1 and T2.

I have never understood this as less time in the screening means more shopping revenue so more money down the road for DAA they can charge in rental.

Idbatterim

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Its amazing. Did it for an early morning flight in July which you’d expect to be a nightmare. Best security experience I’ve had anywhere.

what system do they operate in Gatwick?

Cloudio9

Locker10a wrote: »

If they deployed a security system like in Gatwick south terminal they could increase security capacity a lot, hopefully this will be done in the future

Its amazing. Did it for an early morning flight in July which you’d expect to be a nightmare. Best security experience I’ve had anywhere.

MJohnston

Noxegon wrote: »

The one that gets me is the people who insist on standing right at the machine end of the ramp to collect their bag and reassemble. Why is walking to the far end so difficult?

People who do that, even though they know that you were ahead of them on the conveyor, so their stuff will come out after yours. :mad:

Noxegon

The one that gets me is the people who insist on standing right at the machine end of the ramp to collect their bag and reassemble. Why is walking to the far end so difficult?

BigMoose

Agree re idiots not helping in security. I've noticed more and more recently the number of folk who insist on repacking slowly at the by now full ramp and then sod off leaving the empty tray on the ramp... Some airports strongly encourage you to clear off with tray to the provided tables but many dont. Wouldn't say the DUB layout is worse than many others, just perhaps has a bigger ratio of idiots? Although that's not restricted to Dub...

[Deleted User]

Possibly would help if they had the lead up area with trays and the exit areas were longer. So that more people were prepared before they got to walk through and that it was easier for people to collect and go on the far side.

They may as well have the people standing queuing actively doing something to help the flow rather than standing and just queuing. I’m ready before I even get my boarding pass checked. But 95% of people haven’t even started.

A trial should be done to have the prep area before the belt for the X-ray machine. So that more people could be ready to walk up to the belt and ready to walk through. Have space for 20-30 people to prep and staff to make sure they are ready before moving forward to place their trays.

On the far side there isn’t enough space for what people inevitably do which is to start putting everything back where it came from on the down ramp for the trays. So the trays start backing up and I can’t get mine to walk to the very rear tables and sort myself out clear of the area. I’ve noticed lately in many airports that the tray ramp is full of empty trays and I have to deposit 5-6 trays in the collection area to get the flow going again. This down ramp should be behind glass to force the flow of people to the rear clear of the pat down area and the collection area should be 2-3 times longer than it is.

Dublin really hasn’t made the security area large enough. Meaning it all feels very cramped and crushed when busy. People then start to feed off each other’s building impatience. Unfortunately for the DAA any extra space is dead in terms of income.

Conflats

MJohnston wrote:

There's an interesting conundrum for any airport designer/planner at the minute - security queues are currently largely held up by the process of getting people to unpack their carry on bags. But the new 3D CT scanners being trialled in the US would let you keep everything in your bag, even liquids, unless addition screening was needed.

The scanners in Amsterdam Schiphol allow you to leave everything in the bag including liquids. Security is a breeze.

Biggest thing I find with security is people acting all surprised after being asked to take out liquids and take off jewellery.

By and large security isn't bad it's the arrival is a bigger issue, immigration is a joke, the queues can be 20 minutes at times. Then you have the electronic gates which aren't any quicker rather just less manpower needed

MJohnston

There's an interesting conundrum for any airport designer/planner at the minute - security queues are currently largely held up by the process of getting people to unpack their carry on bags. But the new 3D CT scanners being trialled in the US would let you keep everything in your bag, even liquids, unless addition screening was needed.

So it could very well be the case that in a few years, we're all getting through security a fair bit quicker, and any plans for extra capacity would be a waste.

Idbatterim

How can you have a hub if there is absolutely no critical mass? Shannon cork etc , sure Norwegian can’t even make a go of the routes without competition!

lufties

Donegal Storm wrote: »

Not the biggest issue today but if the projected increase in traffic to between 50 and 60 million happens then check in and security will be a huge issue. T2 security has always been a breeze but this summer I had regular queues upwards of 15 minutes. If traffic is to increase another 75-100% with no equivalent increase in check in/security area then it'll eventually grind to a halt.

There's been an unprecedented increase in both traffic and new/returning airlines in the past 5 years and showing no signs of slowing down, there's already approx 15 extra routes due for next Summer and if the long mooted EI/FR partnership happens it should fuel a further large growth spurt. Eventually you'd think we'll hit a point of saturation but if the hub strategy pays off then sky's very much the limit

Yeah, it fecks me off that its all Dublin centric though. Shannon has a big capacity but its all but forgotten about. Yes I know Shannon is a kip of a place, but if it was connected well to DUB, we might see some development.

L1011

Anything to speed up the taking of trays would be nice - the scanners operate at a fraction of capacity due to the ridiculous faffing and interrogation of passengers who clearly know what they're doing.

Have used plenty of auto-intake completely unmanned at that stage systems, they usually end up going too quick for the metal detector portal to take everyone through!

Locker10a

Donegal Storm wrote: »

L1011 wrote: »

The DAA rep did a decent job on radio yesterday pointing out that a terminal is just a check in area and baggage system, neither of which are the capacity issues currently. DAA want piers first, Lord Churchtown is just confused as usual

Not the biggest issue today but if the projected increase in traffic to between 50 and 60 million happens then check in and security will be a huge issue. T2 security has always been a breeze but this summer I had regular queues upwards of 15 minutes. If traffic is to increase another 75-100% with no equivalent increase in check in/security area then it'll eventually grind to a halt.

lufties wrote: »

What extra traffic do the expect in dublin? EI can't see past north America, and I'd argue other carriers are not banging the door down for DUB. That leaves FR, who are expanding rapidly. Therefore an LCC terminal is the most logical.

There's been an unprecedented increase in both traffic and new/returning airlines in the past 5 years and showing no signs of slowing down, there's already approx 15 extra routes due for next Summer and if the long mooted EI/FR partnership happens it should fuel a further large growth spurt. Eventually you'd think we'll hit a point of saturation but if the hub strategy pays off then sky's very much the limit

If they deployed a security system like in Gatwick south terminal they could increase security capacity a lot, hopefully this will be done in the future

Donegal Storm

L1011 wrote: »

The DAA rep did a decent job on radio yesterday pointing out that a terminal is just a check in area and baggage system, neither of which are the capacity issues currently. DAA want piers first, Lord Churchtown is just confused as usual

Not the biggest issue today but if the projected increase in traffic to between 50 and 60 million happens then check in and security will be a huge issue. T2 security has always been a breeze but this summer I had regular queues upwards of 15 minutes. If traffic is to increase another 75-100% with no equivalent increase in check in/security area then it'll eventually grind to a halt.

lufties wrote: »

What extra traffic do the expect in dublin? EI can't see past north America, and I'd argue other carriers are not banging the door down for DUB. That leaves FR, who are expanding rapidly. Therefore an LCC terminal is the most logical.

There's been an unprecedented increase in both traffic and new/returning airlines in the past 5 years and showing no signs of slowing down, there's already approx 15 extra routes due for next Summer and if the long mooted EI/FR partnership happens it should fuel a further large growth spurt. Eventually you'd think we'll hit a point of saturation but if the hub strategy pays off then sky's very much the limit

Locker10a

ozzy jr wrote: »

goingnowhere wrote: »

Problem is Dublin, gates and taxi times.

Was on a recent Air France flight to CDG. The pilot was giving out over the intercom about how Dublin has only 1 runway. We were in a queue for quite a while.

Air traffic management at Dublin and Ireland is woefully backward

Noxegon

Dublin Port Tunnel was built in 2006. The Luas extension to The Point only happened in 2009.

It'd make more sense to send Luas above ground anyway.

ozzy jr

Was there ever any talk of building a rail tunnel when the Port tunnel was being dug? They could have sent the Luas from Airport, down the motorway, into tunnel and link up with Luas at the Point.

Arthur Daley

Idbatterim wrote: »

Suppose the money goes on all these “experts” who advise on the projects and then there’s **** all left to do it right , then all the gang can make another killing when the project needs to be “upgraded “ a few years after opening ...

Yep. Or it's dissed as a 'white elephant'. Or it's 'gold plated', we could stick something up for a fraction of the cost.
Or, It costs 5 billion! How much! Sure what do we want that for. How many houses could we build for that! Where's the luas down here in rural Ireland. Etc. Etc. Etc. Ad nauseum.

Idbatterim

Must be mad coming to a first world country and airport with 30,000,000 passengers this year and no rail link. Numbers will no doubt hit well over forty million, before there is a railnlink. Light controlled roundabout , a runway with pathetic length! Suppose the money goes on all these “experts” who advise on the projects and then there’s **** all left to do it right , then all the gang can make another killing when the project needs to be “upgraded “ a few years after opening ...

ozzy jr

goingnowhere wrote: »

Problem is Dublin, gates and taxi times.

Was on a recent Air France flight to CDG. The pilot was giving out over the intercom about how Dublin has only 1 runway. We were in a queue for quite a while.

goingnowhere

Business is good for EI, load factors are well above industry norm.

I did a DUB-JFK return recently, midweek, business class, a single empty seat in both directions, full house when I came back from SFO.

Connections via Dublin work extremely well, and the new connections centre makes it even simpler. Compared to LHR/CDG/FRA, Dublin is a clear winner.

Problem is Dublin, gates and taxi times.

Phen2206

lufties wrote: »

Is there really that much of a market to the states

Yes there is. In very recent years EI has started routes to BDL, MIA, SEA, PHL and next year MSP all on top of the existing major city routes. They would not be doing this if there was no market for it. Plus you have all 3 big US carriers with multiple routes, Norwegian offering low cost options AND 2 Icelandic airlines offering connections via KEF. I don't think you need much more evidence of market to the States. A lot of EI's transatlantic passengers these days are not coming to/from Ireland, but actually connecting to/from Europe via DUB.

MJohnston

lufties wrote: »

Is there really that much of a market to the states? I find that hard to believe. Could never understand why EI don't look to the far east.

There's an ever-increasing business class market for the USA.

lufties

MICKEYG wrote: »

If EI is expanding in the US they will need capacity. The morning rush of arrivals is one of the pinch points for stands at the moment.

Is there really that much of a market to the states? I find that hard to believe. Could never understand why EI don't look to the far east.

MICKEYG

lufties wrote: »

What extra traffic do the expect in dublin? EI can't see past north America, and I'd argue other carriers are not banging the door down for DUB. That leaves FR, who are expanding rapidly. Therefore an LCC terminal is the most logical.

If EI is expanding in the US they will need capacity. The morning rush of arrivals is one of the pinch points for stands at the moment.

lufties

What extra traffic do the expect in dublin? EI can't see past north America, and I'd argue other carriers are not banging the door down for DUB. That leaves FR, who are expanding rapidly. Therefore an LCC terminal is the most logical.

Hotblack Desiato

Donegal Storm wrote: »

In other news, Lord Ross has published a report stating that DUB needs a new terminal by 2030

He thinks that the job of being a government minister is indulging his own personal private hobby horses and doing feck all else.

Dublinflyer

L1011 wrote: »

The DAA rep did a decent job on radio yesterday pointing out that a terminal is just a check in area and baggage system, neither of which are the capacity issues currently. DAA want piers first, Lord Churchtown is just confused as usual

The private terminal idea remains as much of a non-runner now as ever. The nearest equivalent to it anywhere is airline leased terminals in the US but even that isn't really the same

Completely agree with you on a private terminal being a non runner but for more political reasons than practical ones. I know they are rare but I can't see a reason for one not to work once they have airlines using it.

The DAA have said that they want piers first but where will they put them and I am not sure the airlines will be happy about having bus loads of passengers driving from terminal to a remote pier or stand. The big issue is that the land to the west belongs to the McEvaddys and they won't sell it anytime soon.

I have a feeling that after an election and a new transport minister is in place this will disappear until the airport is bursting again in 20 years.

[Deleted User]

suicide_circus wrote: »

so the plan is another terminal and still no additional runway? Genius.

I’m not sure whether you are being serious or not. Poster above has answered already.

Cookiemunster

suicide_circus wrote: »

so the plan is another terminal and still no additional runway? Genius.

The new runway will be under construction in a few months and open by 2021.........