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Chapter 2 - Finding Nemo

Swashbuckler

2018 - Chapter One: The Day That Never Comes - Post 1 to 634

2019 - Chapter Two: Finding Nemo - Post 635 onwards

Original Post:
I've decided to set up one of these in the hope that every now and then someone will come along and in their good nature, answer one of my many questions about my training. I find I've been posting a lot of questions in the Random Running thread so maybe this is a better way of going about it.

Background
36 year old male. Been running for 7 years but only started properly focusing my training since January. Only learned what a tempo, LSR etc. were this year! Previous to that I just went out most days and ran 6 miles at as fast as I could manage. No direction or focus to my training. Had ran some half marathons and mixed in circuit training. But this year I really fell in love with running. Thanks to advice from people on here and chatting to some advanced runners I've met at many races this year I've manage to see significant improvements.

PB's;
5k - 18:22 - Parkrun (2017)
10k - 37:44 - Run Killarney (2017)
Half Marathon: 1:31:35 Charleville (2012). Most recent Half was in June - Half Thru the Heart which I did in 1:33. Extremely tough course and the distance was a little short.

Short to Medium term targets (over the next ~10 months);
5k - Sub 18
10k - Sub 37
Half Marathon - Sub 1:30

Long term targets/dreams;
5k - Sub 17
10k - Sub 35
Run my first Full Marathon (maybe by end of next year).
Run a really good Full Marathon.

Myself and my wife have a baby on the way so I'd say the training could be impacted for a while but I really hope I can keep it up to the same level.

I generally do two/three sessions a week (mix of intervals and tempo), one long run and the rest easy runs. Train 5-6 times a week with one day off.

I do all my Mon-Fri training within my one hour lunch break. LSR is either at the weekend or in the morning before work.

I know I should probably join a club. I would love to but we'll see how life changes once baby arrives. Even if I could do one session a week with a club I think it would be of benefit.

Last weeks training;
Mon: 7 miles steady/progressive starting at 7min/mile and finishing at 6:30min/mile. I'm thinking this run isn't of much benefit as it's in no mans land pacewise for me?
Tues: 5 x 1 mile intervals. Intervals at 5:50min/mile average with 3min recovery between.
Wednesday: 10k easy/recovery @ 7:30min/mile. Not sure if this should be slower but I read that it's bad to have easy and LSR paces the same i.e. too much running at the slow pace. The 7:30 pace felt easy.
Thursday: 15 mile LSR @ 8min/mile. Total time: 2 hours.
Friday: 4 mile recovery jog @ 8:50 min/mile.
Saturday: Parkrun 5k - 18:22.
Sunday: Rest

Probably overdid it a bit last week. Not sure to be honest but I feel good. I'm still learning. I'll be giving up the Parkruns in a couple of weeks for a while so I wanted to run a couple of them pretty hard to end up on a good note.

Any advice is greatly appreciated. I'm looking to improve and still relatively new to proper training so I'm willing to take any advice on board.

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Comments

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Three solid days in McGrattans wouldn't make up for the shed load of Novice votes you've secured.

Haha...they hate me! The cranky old bol1ix who kept giving out to them. To be honest only that they are not novices anymore I'd still be there giving out!

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote: »

Never say never, that near politician level of pressing the flesh in McGrattans may yet pay dividends!

Three solid days in McGrattans wouldn't make up for the shed load of Novice votes you've secured.

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I tried my best. I really did. All those reports of pain... All that suffering.... For nothing...

Never say never, that near politician level of pressing the flesh in McGrattans may yet pay dividends!

Swashbuckler

Duanington wrote:

What a great year, P - so much more to come

Anything less than a pb at the Munster Masters next weekend and I'll be disappointed

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

A cracking year Paul...and lots more to come no doubt. It has been a very enjoyable journey to follow....maybe not log of the year quality but good all the same!

I tried my best. I really did. All those reports of pain... All that suffering.... For nothing...

Kellygirl

You have been so dedicated so those PBs are very well deserved! A fantastic year.

Duanington

What a great year, P - so much more to come

skyblue46

A cracking year P...and lots more to come no doubt. It has been a very enjoyable journey to follow....maybe not log of the year quality but good all the same! :pac:

MY BAD

That's been some year for you!

Swashbuckler

Much better week feeling refreshed after last Sundays rest. Came into this week feeling much better and it was reflected in the training.

Monday - Easy 7M + 6x20s Strides
Tuesday - 5x5mins off 2mins at 10k/Tempo Effort on Grass.
Wednesday - Easy 7M
Thursday - Easy 8M
Friday - 1/2/3/4/3/2/1min off equal recoveries +3min Jog +1M all at Race Pace.
Saturday - Easy 14M
Sunday - Rest

So busy again this week. Had a conference on Wednesday and Thursday so I had to run in the evenings. Can't say I enjoy reversing my routine. Eating dinner during the day doesn't suit me atall.

The sessions were on particularly mucky ground especially Fridays. Conditions were desperate. Wind, rain, soft ground. Desperate. Made for a rough pyramid session. Was destroyed when I got back to work. Got some looks from people basically wondering did I actually go out in that. No excuses I said! Enjoyed the sessions though. Feeling the benefits of the grass. Saturdays long run was on particularly tired legs.

On another note, if I've done my calculations correct this is week 52 completed with coaching. I think coach has forgot our anniversary. No flowers, no card.... Nothing. Wtf.
Anyway....

52 weeks of solid running. I think only five runs missed in that time. One snow, two illness, two unavoidable.. 14 races. 10 PB's. All goals for 2018 achieved (apart from one I think). HM time from 1.31.30 to 1.19.48. 10k from 37.45 to 36.05. 5k from 18.22 to 17.35.
Very happy man. Who knows what the next 52 weeks will bring. Very grateful.

Duanington

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I didn't help matters to be fair. I'm supposedly tired but still putting in 8min miles. I'm being particularly hard on myself this week.

Seriously man... How on earth did you manage it... What's the secret? Consistency? Marathon block? Last year's XC? Cumulative effects of all of the above? Who runs a 10k pb in XC like.... Seriously. Haha

Probably all of the above, throw in a better than usual surface and a lot of people faster than me too

Swashbuckler

Duanington wrote:

Solid week there, I find its always hard to shake off tiredness when the week starts off like that

I didn't help matters to be fair. I'm supposedly tired but still putting in 8min miles. I'm being particularly hard on myself this week.

Duanington wrote:

Even better - join Raheny, P ;-) - ( although, Crusaders did beat us to 3rd so maybe you're right!)

Seriously man... How on earth did you manage it... What's the secret? Consistency? Marathon block? Last year's XC? Cumulative effects of all of the above? Who runs a 10k pb in XC like.... Seriously. Haha

Duanington

Even better - join Raheny, P ;-) - ( although, Crusaders did beat us to 3rd so maybe you're right!)

Solid week there, I find its always hard to shake off tiredness when the week starts off like that

Swashbuckler

AuldManKing wrote:

Kicking myself that I didn't stay longer in McGrattans.........

I didn't end up coming back. My buddy and the gang went for dinner and we ended up somewhere else.

AuldManKing

Nice work last week!

Kicking myself that I didn't stay longer in McGrattans.........

Swashbuckler

Came into last week wrecked. Marathon touring around Dublin was great craic as was McGrattans and the shenanigans for the rest of the night but I started the week absolutely shattered from it all. Felt like I'd ran the fecking thing!

Monday - Easy 7M at 8.08 pace in Dublin. Had figured out I could take a right turn out of the hostel and head straight up towards Phoenix Park. Chestefield Ave goes on forever! Feels like they could do the entire marathon on that Avenue alone. Nice run though. Nice to get one in an area where I hear so much about from the other Boardsies. Tired and hungover.

Tuesday - 4x4mins (90s) + 3min Jog + 6x30s Hard (60s). Plan was to run the 4min intervals at race effort. Still not great from the weekend. Besides repeating this over and over again this was the case all week. Tired and leggy. Worked hard on this. 6.02-6.08 pace range for the 4min intervals. Up and down the hills of Mungret grass again. The hard 30s were all between 5.09-5.25 pace. Tough session. Tougher than it should've been.

Wednesday - Easy 7M at 8.00 pace. Probably shouldve slowed this.

Thursday AM - 4M at 8.27 pace.
Thursday PM - 7M at 7.57 pace. Again should've slowed this. I just find with these runs sometimes that you settle into a groove and slowing down feels like more effort than just getting it done. Always at conversational pace. Just very leggy.

Friday - 14x45s Hill Intervals off 90s
Usually my favorite session. Still is but a little harder due to leggy legs. Did the usual trying to lay down a marker on the first. Was in touch with a fellow boardsie earlier in the morning about the gradient for these intervals. After the session I reminded myself not to doubt the gradient again! All between 5.11-5.22 pace. Spot on. Hard work though.

Saturday - Easy 14M at 8.00 pace.
A funny one. Groggy to start. Good from 2 to 5. Tired from 6 to 11. A new man from 12 to 14. Felt good by the end but I think that was just the mental aspect of heading in the home direction.

Strange week. Solid training. Not happy with how I went into the week so tired (and hungover) and a bit annoyed at myself for not adjusting accordingly. Legs were tired all week. On the plus side, the Sunday rest did exactly what it said on the tin. Felt normal again today.
I spent yesterday evening trying to figure out how on earth someone runs a 10k in XC in under 36mins! I went back and looked at my splits from the Limerick Novice/Masters race. I averaged over 6min per mile for a 6k. So the lesson I have learned is I need to do a marathon block or two. Haha. Or join Crusaders.

Total mileage for the week was 54.3 miles. Putting down decent mileage these days. Munster Masters on the horizon. Sub 36 here I come. Lol

Swashbuckler

Another week another article. This time from McMillian. Nothing revolutionary. Just simple, timely and topical.

Consequences of "Banking Time"
i.e., running faster than goal pace early in the marathon:

1) You burn more of your limited muscle glycogen stores. Lowered glycogen stores have been associated with hitting the wall.

2) You burn blood glucose at a faster rate. This requires more frequent feedings to keep the blood glucose level from â€œcrashingâ€ and thus introduces more gastrointestinal challenges. Low blood glucose has been associated with hitting the wall.

3) You stress the muscle tissues more. Marathoners walk around with severe limps and soreness because the muscle tissues get damaged. Running too fast early introduces more damage sooner and muscle damage has been associated with hitting the wall.

4) Your brain becomes unhappy.Â Recent researchÂ shows that if the brain feels threatened by your pacing or by the physiological changes in the body, it will send more feelings of fatigue and/or even cut the power to the working muscles. Running too fast, too early can be threatening to the brain, which has been associated with hitting the wall.

The bottom line? Donâ€™t run too fast, too soon in the marathon. Pace yourself properly so you have lots of physical and mental energy over the last few miles. After all, most athletes lose all their time in the final few miles of the race.

Swashbuckler

OOnegative wrote:

Sure he was under the impression I had flowing locks of hair to...........

Your profile pic/avatar is very misleading.

Swashbuckler

AuldManKing wrote:

I thought that was funny - one of the 1st things you said to me - "I thought you'd be taller......."

The camera definitely adds a few inches on your Strava pics.

AuldManKing

OOnegative wrote: »

Sure he was under the impression I had flowing locks of hair to...........

That's why he wears glasses.

OOnegative

AuldManKing wrote: »

I thought that was funny - one of the 1st things you said to me - "I thought you'd be taller......."

Sure he was under the impression I had flowing locks of hair to...........

AuldManKing

Swashbuckler wrote: »

AMK is shorter in real life. I'm not sure where this 6ft2 myth is coming from. Must've been wearing heels when than measurement was taken. Stunning tan though.

I thought that was funny - one of the 1st things you said to me - "I thought you'd be taller......."

Swashbuckler

Monday - Easy 7M (7.54) plus 6x 20s strides. Felt great.

Tuesday - 8x2min off 75s on Grass.
I'm enjoying the simplicity of these sessions. Nice to mix it up. Yes, the grass sessions are still tough!
All 8 within the range of 5.43-6.10. All recoveries jogged. Still no need for spikes. Feeling stronger off the back of these grass sessions which include hills, lumps and bumps.

Wednesday - Easy 7M (8.05). Felt good again. Nothing to report.

Thursday AM - Easy 4M (8.23). PM - Easy 7M (8.04). Groggy in the morning. Woke up a bit in the afternoon.

Friday 14x45s Hill Intervals off 90s.
I've decided this is my favorite session. So much bang for your buck in one session. Strength training, speed training, working on form, stride and posture. It's a great session. And tough.... It's very tough. Haha. Tried to lay down a marker on the first couple and managed to pass that point on all 14. Pace splits were roughly 5.20-5.30. Passed 2000 miles for the year!

Saturday - Easy 12M (8.08).
Felt super on this one. As I said on Strava everything clicked this week.

Sunday - Dora the Explorer (8M) trekking around Dublin in support of primarily my buddy but also some club lads and several Boardsies (only two of whom I saw on the route AMK and Ray).

Total mileage for the week was 61.2 so the trekking really bumped me up. Feeling it today though. Running with a backpack ain't easy. Thinking of changing my username to Enduro2.

Just a few comments on my training of late:

I'm consciously trying to run my easy runs "better" as opposed to kinda "plodding".

My nutrition needs more work. Missed lunch twice this week. Not good enough.

HR data these days is junk coz of long sleeves on most runs. Of course I could always wear the watch under my sleeve and do without the display but God forbid I ran without feedback on my pace!

Feeling stronger off the back of the less glamorous but gritty sessions.

Comments on DCM.

Amazing.

One of my most enjoyable days at a race. The trekking was so much fun. Thanks skyblue and Luke for the tips.
It was chaos getting into the city. Madness. Took me four hours from leaving limerick to park up. Missed my first meeting point. To be honest I wouldn't have seen my buddy anyway. Saw Ray and AMK at halfway. The last mile is spectacular. Streets literally thronged. The marathon is a beast. Saw such a range of emotions in that last mile. It's truly special to watch. It didn't make me want to do one though. Haha. My buddy did great. 3.38 and managed the race very well.. Met him in McGrattans after. So happy to meet so many Boardsies. It really does feel like you're meeting family. AMK is shorter in real life. I'm not sure where this 6ft2 myth is coming from. Must've been wearing heels when than measurement was taken. Stunning tan though.

All in all a great day and lots of pints to celebrate with my buddy and the inlaws.

The marathon definitely has got me thinking though. Not necessarily that it's top of my list to do one but a lot of the marathon folks I see are running really solid in the shorter stuff off the back of these blocks. Makes me wonder are they a necessary "evil" if you truly want to progress at the shorter stuff. I guess it's all about the several complex parts of a big jigsaw, one piece being a really strong base of endurance. I dunno. We'll see! Gotta get through this XC block in one piece before thinking about next year.

Well done everyone on DCM. Whether you got the result you wanted or not, you had the balls to do it. It takes guts to run a marathon.

Swashbuckler

hot buttered scones wrote:

So what happens when the two coincide with each other? I guarantee you'll feel inspired by Sunday.

Haha I'm already inspired. I'm more excited than my buddy who's actually running it.

hot buttered scones

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Haha I dunno. We'll see. I'm very goal driven as opposed to experience driven. God I'm starting to sound like a dryballs.

So what happens when the two coincide with each other? I guarantee you'll feel inspired by Sunday.

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Haha I dunno. We'll see. I'm very goal driven as opposed to experience driven. God I'm starting to sound like a dryballs.

I'm glad you said it first!

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

HBS is right.....you'll be bitten by the bug to try it even just once to experience the atmosphere.

Haha I dunno. We'll see. I'm very goal driven as opposed to experience driven. God I'm starting to sound like a dryballs.

Swashbuckler

mister paul wrote:

10 mile route mapped out and ready to go, starting at home and finishing in McGrattans

I saved the spots I want to hit into the Google maps app last night. God knows I'll get lost if I don't have that to direct me.

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I already have desperate marathon jealousy..haha

HBS is right.....you'll be bitten by the bug to try it even just once to experience the atmosphere. :P

mister paul

aquinn wrote: »

Myself and P will also be out and about. Was thinking of incorporating the LR into supporting but it is to be cold on Sunday so keep that in mind.

Last time we did it on the bike we hit mile 3/17 and 25. It is a super day.

Pub too for a bit to be sociable.

10 mile route mapped out and ready to go, starting at home and finishing in McGrattans

Support locations
2.8 mile - Aughrim Street - North Circular Road
11.6 mile - Inchicore Road - Suir Road
12.2 mile - South Circular Road, junction with Brookfield Road
12.7 mile - South Circular Road - Dolphins Barn Road
20.3 mile - Milltown Road - Clonskeagh Road
25.2 mile - Pembroke Road, junction with Herbert Park
Finish line - Merrion Square
Post run refreshments - McGrattans

We may not hit all spots, depending on how thirsty we get, but definitely Aughrim Street and McGrattans