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Off Topic Thread 4.0

Zzippy

Thread continued from here

The usual rules apply. Non-rugby talk here. Consider this a social place, but like a pub, things like religion and politics can be divisive, so don't say things here you wouldn't say to someone's face in the pub. Sober

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prawnsambo

errlloyd wrote: »

He doesn't want to be an alt right candidate.

Doesn't matter whether he drops out or not. His name will stil be on the ballot paper. The deadline for taking it off was 26th September.

Zzippy

CatFromHue wrote: »

Gallagher was polling to win it last time but fell apart after what happened with Pat Kenny, so as I said I'm not sure people love Michael D as much as some think.

I mostly agree with all you said Zippy regarding the position and requirements but I'd vote for someone like Feargal Quinn ahead of the vast vast vast majority of politicians and career politicians, and yes I do know he was a senator.

I'm not too keen on reserving the position for some one with a long record of public service as I feel that sometimes that leads to people getting positions in reward for something as opposed to earning it out right i.e. how some senators get their spot in the Seanad.

Yeah I hear ya, and I wouldn't include most politicians in that category - most are in it for themselves and rarely campaign on social issues unless it is to their benefit, then they jump on a bandwagon. I don't consider that public service as I was referring to it. Michael D has stuck his head above the parapet on so many occasions when it was not politic to do so, even losing his seat after the abortion referendum in 82 where he was vocal on the losing side.
A political career is not a necessity - I'd be happy to consider someone who has done a lot of work in advocacy or charity, the likes of Adi Roche, Peter McVerry (who would never run anyway), that kind of record anyway.

DGRulz

Shock, horror! Casey's staying in the race. I wonder how true that golf weekend rumours were?

stephen_n

DGRulz wrote: »

Shock, horror! Casey's staying in the race. I wonder how true that golf weekend rumours were?

In or out it’s just pure tokenism, what’s he going to get, between 3%-5% of the vote?

Zzippy

stephen_n wrote: »

In or out it’s just pure tokenism, what’s he going to get, between 3%-5% of the vote?

There is huge antipathy towards travellers in rural areas, something I've been freuently shocked by is the level of vitriol. I've been seeing a good few people who I thought knew better posting supportive posts on social media and promising to vote for him. There are many more who I wouldn't expect better from who will also vote for him. Even though the president has no power to do anything about travellers, for better or worse, he will get a lot of these people to vote for him. The Trump effect...

Buer

One area I somewhat agree with Casey is the appliction of welfare/benefits in this country. Essentially we all receive some form or another. It's madness. I have two kids but because they happen to be born on the same day, I get child benefit for three kids. Can someone explain that to me? Economies of scale means that it's actually cheaper and more efficient to have twins than two separate births but the state give me 3 for the price of 2.

I can only imagine there are similar idiosyncrancies within the Irish system as well as a significant number of pepole in receipt of benefit/welfare payments they do not need whatsoever but are entitled to currently.

Of course, this doesn't really matter a jot right now because no president can have any impact on this whatsoever.

[Deleted User]

Zzippy wrote: »

There is huge antipathy towards travellers in rural areas, something I've been freuently shocked by is the level of vitriol. I've been seeing a good few people who I thought knew better posting supportive posts on social media and promising to vote for him. There are many more who I wouldn't expect better from who will also vote for him. Even though the president has no power to do anything about travellers, for better or worse, he will get a lot of these people to vote for him. The Trump effect...

Loads of people will buy into it.

Casey isn't just outing himself as being anti-traveller, by speaking out in the manner in which he did he has become anti the system and the powers that be and importantly - anti-PC.

I spoke with a colleague who works in HR recently and they had been responsible for sacking someone that had made a cat call at a passing female from the grounds of the company they worked at. Their response when told they were being terminated is that it was 'PC' gone mad.

There are a lot of people who don't like the way Ireland is changing - who don't like that they can't say what they want about Muslims, women, gays or whoever else they joke about within their circles. They don't care to think about the impact their casual prejudices might have and so automatically blame everyone else when suddenly they find themselves brought to account. People can think and believe what they like, but they can also be disliked for being prejudicial asshat's also.

People like this (and there are a LOT of them) hear Casey and think this is our guy. He's telling it like it is, he doesn't care about political correctness, we can be ourselves again. It's no different than America under Trump.

Whether by intention or accident he picked the right target group to start off against also. Many Travellers have done their community immeasurable damage in the public eye through criminality and rural farming communities have been consistently on the receiving end of this.

I still think enough people will see through what Casey is trying to do however, he'll be polling up but not by much - and I don't think he'll take too many votes from Higgins.

Squidgy Black

It's the Trump effect. Honestly.

I know we like to think we're further along in terms of social inclusion and equality than a lot of America. But we really aren't miles ahead, just that it's not as loudly projected as in the States.

I think the polls will be a shock in regards to Casey, I've heard a lot of people saying they'll vote for him after his traveller comments, and the idea of him being more of a "man of the people" and speaking the word of the working class/lower middle class.

Podge_irl

Buer wrote: »

One area I somewhat agree with Casey is the appliction of welfare/benefits in this country. Essentially we all receive some form or another. It's madness. I have two kids but because they happen to be born on the same day, I get child benefit for three kids. Can someone explain that to me? Economies of scale means that it's actually cheaper and more efficient to have twins than two separate births but the state give me 3 for the price of 2.

You can't use hand-me-downs between siblings with twins. You need double prams etc. I'm not convinced it would be cheaper at all.

prawnsambo

Squidgy Black wrote: »

It's the Trump effect. Honestly.

I know we like to think we're further along in terms of social inclusion and equality than a lot of America. But we really aren't miles ahead, just that it's not as loudly projected as in the States.

I think the polls will be a shock in regards to Casey, I've heard a lot of people saying they'll vote for him after his traveller comments, and the idea of him being more of a "man of the people" and speaking the word of the working class/lower middle class.

But we are. Demonstrably. You can't compare the support that Trump has with the same level of support here for somebody carrying the same baggage. It's not even close. Yes there are people who will espouse Trumpian ideologies and Casey is trying to hitch his wagon to them. But the numbers are way smaller than the (and this varies) 30-40% who support Trump and his witterings.

Buer

Podge_irl wrote: »

You can't use hand-me-downs between siblings with twins. You need double prams etc. I'm not convinced it would be cheaper at all.

Pfft. What would you know about twins!

We had loads of hand me downs, in fairness. Tonnes of friends, family etc. looking to ditch clothes onto others. And we've done the same. Double buggies are obviously more expensive but not so much that I need additional child benefit for 18 years!

I'll get an additional €30k from the state for having twins over the course of that period.

[Deleted User]

Buer wrote: »

Pfft. What would you know about twins!

We had loads of hand me downs, in fairness. Tonnes of friends, family etc. looking to ditch clothes onto others. And we've done the same. Double buggies are obviously more expensive but not so much that I need additional child benefit for 18 years!

I'll get an additional €30k from the state for having twins over the course of that period.

If you feel that badly about it you can give the cash to me and I promise to spend it on something worthwhile...!

Buer

Deleted User wrote: »

If you feel that badly about it you can give the cash to me and I promise to spend it on something worthwhile...!

We're actually using it to send you on a Photoshop course.

I didn't tell you though. Just act surprised on Christmas morning!

thomond2006

Buer wrote: »

I'll get an additional €30k from the state for having twins over the course of that period.

Pints on Buer....

Podge_irl

Buer wrote: »

Pfft. What would you know about twins!

We had loads of hand me downs, in fairness. Tonnes of friends, family etc. looking to ditch clothes onto others. And we've done the same. Double buggies are obviously more expensive but not so much that I need additional child benefit for 18 years!

I'll get an additional €30k from the state for having twins over the course of that period.

Ah yeah, you can obviously get them from friends. It just means you might need two of certain things rather than using one twice. Even thinking of things like car seats etc.

Plus you need more money for wine due to having twins...

thomond2006

http://www.thejournal.ie/john-joe-kiernan-rape-abuse-suspended-sentence-4298723-Oct2018/

Is age/ill-health a justification for 'walking free' for horrific crimes?

Mookie Blaylock

There is a Presidential election thread in AH and Casey is on approx 55% of votes cast .....
normally AH is a bit more liberal & left wing thinking than RL....so perhaps there's an actual issue perceived here....
I don't believe it can simply be swatted to one side claiming the "Trump Effect"...way too simplistic.
Casey won't win...not within an asses roar of it..... but a sizeable percentage of this islands population look to have an issue with at least a portion of the travelling community...and that will have to be addressed in the near future.

dregin

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

There is a Presidential election thread in AH and Casey is on approx 55% of votes cast .....
normally AH is a bit more liberal & left wing thinking than RL....so perhaps there's an actual issue perceived here....
I don't believe it can simply be swatted to one side claiming the "Trump Effect"...way too simplistic.
Casey won't win...not within an asses roar of it..... but a sizeable percentage of this islands population look to have an issue with at least a portion of the travelling community...and that will have to be addressed in the near future.

What needs to be addressed is people not paying tax. That isn't a problem exclusive to the travelling community and isn't one from which travellers are the highest beneficiaries.

After Hours has turned into an alt-right haven, by the look of things. I've not read it regularly in at least 10 years, though.

prawnsambo

dregin wrote: »

What needs to be addressed is people not paying tax. That isn't a problem exclusive to the travelling community and isn't one from which travellers are the highest beneficiaries.

After Hours has turned into an alt-right haven, by the look of things. I've not read it regularly in at least 10 years, though.

AH is just extreme full stop. Hard to draw any meaningful statistics from it.

Squidgy Black

AH is a replication of TheJournal.ie comments section. It's completely alt-right these days.

CatFromHue

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

There is a Presidential election thread in AH and Casey is on approx 55% of votes cast .....
normally AH is a bit more liberal & left wing thinking than RL....so perhaps there's an actual issue perceived here....
I don't believe it can simply be swatted to one side claiming the "Trump Effect"...way too simplistic.
Casey won't win...not within an asses roar of it..... but a sizeable percentage of this islands population look to have an issue with at least a portion of the travelling community...and that will have to be addressed in the near future.

I think what is also in people's minds is how many people had a go at Casey and called him a racist while there was some newly built houses left empty in a national housing crisis. A national housing crisis that his critics are regularly pointing out.

Zzippy

Buer wrote: »

We're actually using it to send you on a Photoshop course.

I didn't tell you though. Just act surprised on Christmas morning!

A truly selfless act for the good of the rugby forum. Now if you could add some adult diapers...

Mookie Blaylock

Paddy Power have brought Casey's odds in from 100/1 to 40/1 .....and 11/2 if Miggledy Higgins is take out of the equation.

mfceiling

Casey probably won't get close to 10% of the vote but he's opened up a can of worms right now.
Working people are starting to get fed up with travellers getting a big helping hand from the state and basically throwing it right back in their face.
Leo and his "I'll help the person who gets up early in the morning"....I read somewhere that someone on 34k a year will be approx €4.50 a week better off whereas someone on welfare is better off by €5. This must stick in the craw with a sizeable amount of the population.

Work hard every day and pay rent/mortgage and then read about someone who turns down a free home because the council won't provide them with 2 acres and purpose built stables.
Listen as a mother of 7 shouts down all and sundry that the government won't give her a house beside her kids school and then a few days later she's after shoplifting over €300 worth of clothes from penney's. Not one politician asks the question about her responsibility of bringing 7 kids into the world without any means to provide for then.
It only took one person with a perception of "power" to say that this is unfair and the wagons were circled, and every politician and newspaper hit him with "racist".
I'm guessing that when the next general election comes around, the usual suspects will get in but they're going to be asked a few difficult questions when they start ringing doorbells looking for votes.

Squidgy Black

mfceiling wrote: »

Casey probably won't get close to 10% of the vote but he's opened up a can of worms right now.
Working people are starting to get fed up with travellers getting a big helping hand from the state and basically throwing it right back in their face.
Leo and his "I'll help the person who gets up early in the morning"....I read somewhere that someone on 34k a year will be approx €4.50 a week better off whereas someone on welfare is better off by €5. This must stick in the craw with a sizeable amount of the population.

Work hard every day and pay rent/mortgage and then read about someone who turns down a free home because the council won't provide them with 2 acres and purpose built stables.
Listen as a mother of 7 shouts down all and sundry that the government won't give her a house beside her kids school and then a few days later she's after shoplifting over €300 worth of clothes from penney's. Not one politician asks the question about her responsibility of bringing 7 kids into the world without any means to provide for then.
It only took one person with a perception of "power" to say that this is unfair and the wagons were circled, and every politician and newspaper hit him with "racist".
I'm guessing that when the next general election comes around, the usual suspects will get in but they're going to be asked a few difficult questions when they start ringing doorbells looking for votes.

The whole Margaret Cash situation itself opened up a whole debate. A woman of the traveller community, who earns over 50k a year without tax in benefits, turning down accomodation due to wanting it to be closer to her mother, and the story being plastered all over the internet. And then of course add to it the other stuff like her convictions, Facebook posts of her lavishly spending days before presenting herself and her kids to the Garda station.

irishbucsfan

Casey did not say "this is unfair". If anyone thinks he's being called a racist because he spoke about fairness then they need to listen more.

Dave_The_Sheep

Buer wrote: »

It's madness. I have two kids but because they happen to be born on the same day, I get child benefit for three kids. Can someone explain that to me?

I presume it's because someone might not be expecting two when they thought one. That's twice as much food. A double stroller. Later on, two school uniforms at the same time, not one. Etc etc (Obviously this it not something someone without kids can explain to a father of twins). If you planned for one but got two, no fault of yours, then I wouldn't begrudge a parent that.

I can't explain the 3/2 thing. That's something else. Maybe it's a reward for having super efficient testicles/ovaries?

I'm childfree myself and plan on remaining so for life, but I've no problem with parents getting help, twins particularly, for the record.

swiwi_

Buer wrote: »

One area I somewhat agree with Casey is the appliction of welfare/benefits in this country. Essentially we all receive some form or another. It's madness. I have two kids but because they happen to be born on the same day, I get child benefit for three kids. Can someone explain that to me? Economies of scale means that it's actually cheaper and more efficient to have twins than two separate births but the state give me 3 for the price of 2.

What would have happened if born on different days?

Wife goes into labour, first child at 23.50, second at 00.15 for example?

Squidgy Black

swiwi_ wrote: »

What would have happened if born on different days?

Wife goes into labour, first child at 23.50, second at 00.15 for example?

Still classified as twins aren't they, considering they shared the womb etc.

Mookie Blaylock

What about Irish twins, do people get 3 sets of payments there?