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Child Item

"if you want something done well, hire a working mother".

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Said by Maia Dunphy in the Irish Times this weekend.

Surely a very unfair statement. Could you imagine if someone said, in a national newspaper 'If you want something done well, hire a man/single woman'.

I've worked with lots of great and talented people and they cover the entire range: women, men, parents, non parents, older people, younger people.

Just wondering if anyone agrees with her.

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Hurrache

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

It was actually Aine Kerr that said it and sure nonsense like that is nothing knew with these types.

As I said already, it's a term that's been in use a long time before this year.

Where was the outrage then?

Hannibal_Smith

Neyite wrote: »

Dragon Wagons

Brilliant :pac:

Ray Palmer

I have worked with working mothers who I knew before they became mothers. Every single one of them returned to do a terrible job afterwards.

Their focus was never work and they never would do overtime and reduced their hours.

Everything took second place to the children and that included their partners. A common complaint from fathers.

I am sure some people can prioritise things better but I have yet to see it. It reminds me of the BS women can multi task better than men. We are equally bad and the original study was based on house work where the women were familiar with the tasks and able to be more efficient versus men who weren't as familiar with the tasks. Done in the 50s and more recent studies on people with the same experience of tasks showed both sexes are equally bad at multi tasking.

[Deleted User]

Someone had an opinion. So what?

If some guy said "If you want something done well, hire a man with kids" I'd assume the logic was that he'd be motivated to provide for them.

I wouldn't be looking for ways to be insulted. I'm not compelled to agree, or even pay attention.

Hurrache

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I have worked with working mothers who I knew before they became mothers. Every single one of them returned to do a terrible job afterwards.

Might say more about your particular place of employment, or it's simply untrue, as it certainly does not fit one bit with my experience.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Everything took second place to the children and that included their partners. A common complaint from fathers.

Nonsense.

Ray Palmer

Hurrache wrote: »

Might say more about your particular place of employment, or it's simply untrue, as it certainly does not fit one bit with my experience.

Nonsense.

I worked in a lot of companies. Don't know why my experience is nonsense and yours is valid. I work in IT where things change very quickly. A level of flexibility is required and every mother of a child have worked with prioritise their family and work to rule. My experience but have you only worked with super women who can balance everything?
I'm not saying they can't do the job I am saying they don't do the job as well as other or even themselves.

Pawwed Rig

Hurrache wrote: »

Nonsense.

Not sure why it is nonsense. Makes perfect sense to me. Child is sick? Child comes first regardless of work commitments.
Work fits around family rather than other way around.

Hurrache

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Not sure why it is nonsense. Makes perfect sense to me. Child is sick? Child comes first regardless of work commitments.
Work fits around family rather than other way around.

I'm talking about the suggestion that the poor father might get blue balls and it's a common complaint from the poor mites.

In these examples, is the mother the only care giver in the house, does the father not give a hand, splitting the time and effort between both parents?

Ray Palmer

Hurrache wrote: »

I'm talking about the suggestion that the poor father might get blue balls and it's a common complaint from the poor mites.

In these examples, is the mother the only care giver in the house, does the father not give a hand, splitting the time and effort between both parents?

I didn't bring up sex. It is a common complaint from many partners both male and female that their partners change after having a baby and neglect their relationships.
Nothing to do with who is doing the caring it is a change in priorities and more focus on the child than their relationship. It is as common as people complaining their partner doesn't do enough house work. You not being aware of it doesn't mean anything other than a lack of experience. Who knew children put a strain on relationships only discover last week

Hannibal_Smith

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Not sure why it is nonsense. Makes perfect sense to me. Child is sick? Child comes first regardless of work commitments.
Work fits around family rather than other way around.

My co workers have had far more sick days than my kids. When the kids are sick myself and the other half share between ourselves, depending who has what on in work, and it comes out of our holidays. Or we work it back up. Though if it happened where we both had something on, it would cause an issue. Thankfully we haven't had to cross that bridge.

[Deleted User]

Another RTÉ luvvie straining for attention.

hatrickpatrick

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

I've seen working mothers who are absolutely astounding at their jobs, great at time management and getting projects done all while working reduced hours.

I've also seen working mothers who are absolutely terrible at their jobs and are barely capable of getting anything done.

Careful now, you're not allowed to acknowledge the existence of the latter group, or you will be personally beheaded by Louise O'Neill whilst being simultaneously castrated by Una Mullaly for crimes against bajillionth wave transvegafeminism of colour.

Silentcorner

Candie wrote: »

Someone had an opinion. So what?

If some guy said "If you want something done well, hire a man with kids" I'd assume the logic was that he'd be motivated to provide for them.

I wouldn't be looking for ways to be insulted. I'm not compelled to agree, or even pay attention.

On its own, you are dead right, it's only an article.

However, the dominant narrative in media for some time now reflects the tone of the article, it is recycled in different forms all the time across media, the problem then becomes who is going to challenge that narrative?

Grayson

Silentcorner wrote: »

On its own, you are dead right, it's only an article.

However, the dominant narrative in media for some time now reflects the tone of the article, it is recycled in different forms all the time across media, the problem then becomes who is going to challenge that narrative?

I guess it's up to all the keyboard warriors here. Doing a thankless job to ave civilisation.

Chinasea

Hurrache wrote: »

You are being the very definition of over sensitive, and those who feel like they're being made to feel second class are too.

Should we drop every comparison which refers to a man, women, boy, girl, dog, cat, car, house, wife, husband, in case it 'offends' someone who by some stretch of the imagination feels slighted by the reference to any of those?

Absolutely not. There is enough stigma and negative innuendos that hang over childless couples and women. I'd suggest you might consider this before dismissing it.

AnneFrank

Ryland Prehistoric Jigsaw wrote: »

Said by Maia Dunphy in the Irish Times this weekend.

Surely a very unfair statement. Could you imagine if someone said, in a national newspaper 'If you want something done well, hire a man/single woman'.

I've worked with lots of great and talented people and they cover the entire range: women, men, parents, non parents, older people, younger people.

Just wondering if anyone agrees with her.

Sexism only go's one way, if you were to believe modern opinion all men are racist thugs.

eviltwin

Ryland Prehistoric Jigsaw wrote: »

I don't think I'm being 'over sensitive' about the first statement.

'Hire someone with experience' is absolutely not the same as saying 'hire a working mother.'
If she had said 'in my experience having to juggle a child and a job has made me much better at time management' that would be fine.

But obviously you have no experience around women who cannot have children and who don't like being made to feel second class. I have, and I know how upsetting a statement like Maia's can be to those 'over sensitive' women.

She didn't say it to hurt anyone. I think being over sensitive about this comment because you don't or can't have children is one thing but you might as well say any comments about parents shouldn't be made because someone somewhere will be hurt. Maia Dunphy should be able to give her point of view without having to pander to others .

freshpopcorn

Penneys should hire Margaret Cash for help with their clearance sale!

Wanderer2010

This is too broad a stroke. As said, I work with working mothers who range between excellent, to mediocre to downright awful. Another nasty side effect of a LOT of working mothers is talking to fellow workers as if they were children- in some cases completely unintentional as they are so used to telling little Timmy or Aisling what to do, in other cases 100% intentional and a passive aggressive tool when dealing with people they don't like. Workplaces are full of all sorts.

Silentcorner

Grayson wrote: »

I guess it's up to all the keyboard warriors here. Doing a thankless job to ave civilisation.

I guess we're a bit like Batman!!

It is no joke that being said, being from Limerick, I am very familiar of how hard it can be to question an ingrained narrative, and how helpless you can actually be, will we ever see articles questioning female toxic behaviour? I seriously doubt it!

B0jangles

Is there any context to her remarks?

Like, is it intended to counter the common stereotype that women are no use to their employers once they become parents? I remember reading that a lot of women have reported that when they came back from maternity leave, they were effectively demoted or put on to less important projects because it was assumed they'd only have half their minds on their work.

backspin.

I grew up hearing that saying. It was normally said as.. if you want something done ask a busy person.

Mia is the 2nd person I have seen recently who has said.. ask a busy woman. That's feminism I suppose.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Silentcorner wrote: »

On its own, you are dead right, it's only an article.

However, the dominant narrative in media for some time now reflects the tone of the article, it is recycled in different forms all the time across media, the problem then becomes who is going to challenge that narrative?

Exactly. People are entitled to speak up and point out how thoughtless remarks can cause huge hurt to certain groups of people. Dismissing them as oversensitive can often show a real lack of awareness of the issue.

I'm not proposing everyone has to walk on eggshells all the time and watch every word they say for fear of offending a particular group. But I do think the Irish Times could have thought before printing that particular comment. There is more discussion now around how women without children are sometimes made to feel by society, and I think that remark is a good example of sweeping statements that actually don't make any sense but propagate the myth that mothers are more useful and productive members of society than childless women who are flighty and haven't learnt the meaning of the word 'responsibility'.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Hurrache wrote: »

As I said already, it's a term that's been in use a long time before this year.

Where was the outrage then?

Where is the 'outrage' now? Has anyone mentioned that they're outraged, or even furious.

meeeeh

I'm a mother but considering I'm typing this instead of working clearly not a model employee that Maia Dunphy is talking about. However this outrage is just complete nonsense. I actually don't even care if working mother with man, woman, traveller, black person, yellow person, alien but this need for individuals to always be included in anything positive someone says is ridiculous. It's me, me, me... It's all about 'me' and if one doesn't fit the category then one has to be offended and require the statement to be censored.

meeeeh

Ryland Prehistoric Jigsaw wrote: »

Where is the 'outrage' now? Has anyone mentioned that they're outraged, or even furious.

You are asking for censorship, what else is that supposed to be but outrage?

Cienciano

So many people on boards haven't realised that journalists try to come up with "controversial" stories to wind up people. This gets them noticed and generates sales and clicks. They'll swear blind they don't do it for these reasons, but it's all for attention. And idiots keep giving it to them.

Hurrache

backspin. wrote: »

.

Mia is the 2nd person I have seen recently who has said.. ask a busy woman. That's feminism I suppose.

Like I said 2, if not 3, times, it's a phrase for the ages, with at least one academic study into a particular profession, accounting or something along those lines, finding there's truth to it within that particular field.

Ryland Prehistoric Jigsaw wrote: »

Where is the 'outrage' now? Has anyone mentioned that they're outraged, or even furious.

For starters you questioned if the paper should have even published such an innocuous remark.

What about all the men who can never have children, should they have been considered before saying such a thing. Imagine them all at home just crying into their cornflakes upon reading it at breakfast wishing they had a mother and kids sitting with them evey morning before getting a kiss as he heads out to work.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

meeeeh wrote: »

You are asking for censorship, what else is that supposed to be but outrage?

I'm not asking for censorship. Don't be ridiculous. I'm saying that newspapers should show a bit of sensitivity when quoting so called 'celebs'. And if they don't then yes, people should question and query. I'm sure people did it years ago when newspapers printed patronising quotes about working women, or working class people or whatever. And attitudes slowly changed.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

meeeeh wrote: »

I'm a mother but considering I'm typing this instead of working clearly not a model employee that Maia Dunphy is talking about. However this outrage is just complete nonsense. I actually don't even care if working mother with man, woman, traveller, black person, yellow person, alien but this need for individuals to always be included in anything positive someone says is ridiculous. It's me, me, me... It's all about 'me' and if one doesn't fit the category then one has to be offended and require the statement to be censored.

Or perhaps, sometimes, just sometimes, minority groups fed up of reading patronising comments come out and question them in an attempt to change attitudes. I doubt many people get offended by one stupid comment, but when they have to put up with a negative attitude over and over then damn right they will start to question. That's not outrage, by the way.