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M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

JupiterKid

Following on from the suggestion of a poster, this thread has been set up to discuss the need for widening the M7.

The section of the M7 IMO in immediate need (really a backlog need) for widening is the section from the Maudlins Interchange at Naas to the M9 interchange - basically the original 1983 Naas Bypass and half of the 1993 Newbridge Bypass. Is this likely to proceed in the near future?

Would the central median be wide enough for widening to D3M here? I'm pretty sure it is wide enough on the Newbridge bypass section but I'm not so sure in the case of the Naas Bypass.

Also, what bridges will need to be demolished and rebuilt? Or would it be more practical to drop the hard shoulder through the existing bridges?

What about the proposal a few years back to build a new junction at on the Naas Bypass at Osberstown? Will it still go ahead?

In the longer term, does anyone see a need to widen the M7 to the N7/M8 junction?

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Kevwoody

_Kaiser_ wrote:

This should be a 24/7 operation until complete and open.

For it to be a 24/7 operation, you would need 3 seperate teams working 8 hour shifts. That's a lot of coordinating to do. The resources simply aren't there.
The road will be finished next spring, simple as. If people can't deal with it for that long then I really do despair.

_Kaiser_

Kevwoody wrote: »

For it to be a 24/7 operation, you would need 3 seperate teams working 8 hour shifts. That's a lot of coordinating to do. The resources simply aren't there.
The road will be finished next spring, simple as. If people can't deal with it for that long then I really do despair.

If they weren't able to provide the resources to do the job properly (given the importance of this road) then they shouldn't have tendered.. but equally that tender should have been rejected on that basis.. so the fault lies 50/50. An early completion bonus would probably have helped move things along.

You make it sound like this disruption is only a recent thing.. it's not, and the entire thing COULD have been done by now before the dark winter nights/mornings set in.

Instead we have a drawn out, massively disruptive process where the bare minimum is done to meet the contractual requirement.

Avatar MIA

Kevwoody wrote: »

Explain to me how it's a cluster****??
!

Do you drive this road regularly, rush hour traffic morning and evening? if you did you'd know that one of the busiest roads in the country is broken.

Kevwoody wrote: »

It's on schedule to be completed, the contractors have budgeted to be on site for a specific amount of time.

Oh, okay, so everything is fine so. Er, no. I'm not a project manager, yet I can see problems with it.

1. Why was such a large section of the road coned off when it appears they are not working on the full section of the road at any given time. This may facilitate a quicker overall completion, but the affect on the commuters is significantly worsened during the construction phase.

2. Why is the second busiest road not being worked on 24/7. Why is it acceptable for this to be a car park for so long?

3. Why aren't crashes cleared more quickly?

4. Why aren't lane changers that cause accidents not made an example of?

_Kaiser_

Agree with the above, but item 4 to be fair has been a issue longg before this started. Most of the accidents tend to be around the M9 merge where cars come flying up the lane and then shoot across into the mainline (usually the right lane) which is normally moving slower... result: regular crashes

Is any of that to be changed as part of this?

I've also noticed this week that the low sun at several awkward places causes issues too.

Avatar MIA

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Agree with the above, but item 4 to be fair has been a issue longg before this started. Most of the accidents tend to be around the M9 merge where cars come flying up the lane and then shoot across into the mainline (usually the right lane) which is normally moving slower... result: regular crashes Is any of that to be changed as part of this?

I've also noticed this week that the low sun at several awkward places causes issues too.

Agreed, and point taken. I imagine the frustration builds up over time as well, the realisation it's been going on for months, and months more to come, and seeing others making apparent progress by changing lanes... it's a recipe for crashes.

Mantis Toboggan

Thankfully opening in March so only 5 more months.

Avatar MIA

Well holy god. Allah be praised.

Only took 30 minutes on the N7 to get to junction 11! Have taken an hour longer to get the same distance. There was even two incidents around junction 3.

The difference was that I left at 17:50 rather than 16:00 on Friday's

BuzzFish

Avatar MIA wrote: »

1. Why was such a large section of the road coned off when it appears they are not working on the full section of the road at any given time. This may facilitate a quicker overall completion, but the affect on the commuters is significantly worsened during the construction phase.

To allow ambulance, fire brigade, recovery vehicles etc travel the route without getting stuck.

Damien360

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Agree with the above, but item 4 to be fair has been a issue longg before this started. Most of the accidents tend to be around the M9 merge where cars come flying up the lane and then shoot across into the mainline (usually the right lane) which is normally moving slower... result: regular crashes Is any of that to be changed as part of this?

I've also noticed this week that the low sun at several awkward places causes issues too.

Been happening for years at M9 merge and will continue after the upgrade. Even after the junction was improved, idiots still crossed all lanes to get to the "fhast lane".

Same thing happens most days on N3 merge to M50 Northbound. Until the guards start handing out tickets like confetti for poor lane discipline it won't change.

Remove the requirement for a Garda stop and use car video footage from unmarked/marked cars to hand out fines.

Avatar MIA

BuzzFish wrote: »

To allow ambulance, fire brigade, recovery vehicles etc travel the route without getting stuck.

I don't follow. If they did it in shorter chunks why would this disadvantage emergency vehicles?

sea12

Kevwoody wrote: »

Explain to me how it's a cluster****??
It's on schedule to be completed, the contractors have budgeted to be on site for a specific amount of time. Just because people drive past in the morning and don't see a new bridge or a third lane by the time they go past again in the evening, doesn't make it a cluster****.
Honestly, the amount of whinging on here is unreal. These are usually the people complaining when roads are in poor condition or over capacity, yet don't have the patience to wait for new infrastructure.

Honestly lads, give it a ****1ng break!

Are you for real or trying to troll. You obviously don’t use this road on a daily basis. The constant unrealibility of being unable to plan your time to go to work or get home to collect kids from crèche because of constant accidents and delays on this road. They should have resources this job so they could have worked longer hours so as to complete quicker. The economic cost of these delays are astronomical

Kevwoody

sea12 wrote:

Are you for real or trying to troll. You obviously donâ€™t use this road on a daily basis. The constant unrealibility of being unable to plan your time to go to work or get home to collect kids from crÃ¨che because of constant accidents and delays on this road. They should have resources this job so they could have worked longer hours so as to complete quicker. The economic cost of these delays are astronomical

And what about the economical benefits in 5 to 6 months time when it's complete?

There was a specific start and end date published at the beginning of the work. That hasn't changed!

_Kaiser_

Kevwoody wrote: »

And what about the economical benefits in 5 to 6 months time when it's complete?

There was a specific start and end date published at the beginning of the work. That hasn't changed!

You're not getting the point, or choosing to ignore it.

This work could have been completed much quicker, and could have been done by now, if the work was 24/7

Telling people "but it'll be grand in 6 months" (yet to be seen BTW.. I personally think it'll just move the outbound mess to the Carlow exit, and cause bigger logjams at the M50 inbound) just isn't a good enough answer for the second busiest road in the country and which is the primary link to Cork, Waterford, Limerick etc

regedit

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

You're not getting the point, or choosing to ignore it.

This work could have been completed much quicker, and could have been done by now, if the work was 24/7

Telling people "but it'll be grand in 6 months" (yet to be seen BTW.. I personally think it'll just move the outbound mess to the Carlow exit, and cause bigger logjams at the M50 inbound) just isn't a good enough answer for the second busiest road in the country and which is the primary link to Cork, Waterford, Limerick etc

I echo that. It is now clear this stretch of the road could have been completed much sooner with proper resourcing. Bring in a Chinese crew and they would have finished it in a few weeks. Seriously and not trolling or a german company. It's mind boggling how the bridge at Kerry group has presented such an obstacle with all efforts focused there and nothing major happening on the main thoroughfare! By all means, this is not a complex task so the government got the tender probably wrong in terms of duration needed to complete but, I do not agree with the point: ...sure it will be right in a few months... If it has to be finished in March, we will start seeing serious problems soon. Days are getting shorter, winter is coming, Christmas is coming with much heaver traffic owing too way more people on the roads.
Strange that local politicians do not see it and exercise pressure on siac... or that the media haven't asked the builders what on earth are they doing...

WhatsGoingOn2

regedit wrote: »

I echo that. It is now clear this stretch of the road could have been completed much sooner with proper resourcing. Bring in a Chinese crew and they would have finished it in a few weeks. Seriously and not trolling or a german company. It's mind boggling how the bridge at Kerry group has presented such an obstacle with all efforts focused there and nothing major happening on the main thoroughfare! By all means, this is not a complex task so the government got the tender probably wrong in terms of duration needed to complete but, I do not agree with the point: ...sure it will be right in a few months... If it has to be finished in March, we will start seeing serious problems soon. Days are getting shorter, winter is coming, Christmas is coming with much heaver traffic owing too way more people on the roads.
Strange that local politicians do not see it and exercise pressure on siac... or that the media haven't asked the builders what on earth are they doing...

They are on track to finish in time as scheduled. Why would politicians or media need to get involved? There is no story. (And yes, I do travel on it on a daily basis during rush hours for work)

BuzzFish

Avatar MIA wrote: »

I don't follow. If they did it in shorter chunks why would this disadvantage emergency vehicles?

What do you not follow? When there is no hard shoulder, even for a 1km stretch, would you expect an emergency vehicle to wait in a traffic jam? There are multiple transfers daily between hospitals, getting children to Tallaght and Crumlin for example. It's a very smart condition of planning that one emergency lane must be maintained at all times.

Avatar MIA

BuzzFish wrote: »

What do you not follow? When there is no hard shoulder, even for a 1km stretch, would you expect an emergency vehicle to wait in a traffic jam? There are multiple transfers daily between hospitals, getting children to Tallaght and Crumlin for example. It's a very smart condition of planning that one emergency lane must be maintained at all times.

Still don't get it. What were they doing when there were no road works with the lane inside barrier? You're not making sense. Are they going to keep an emergency lane after the road works are complete? What they have always been doing is use the hard shoulder.

And to clarify, if they didn't extend the roadworks, they'd still have the hard shoulder for that section.

And the tailback is greater because the of extended roadworks.

Kevwoody

Wasn't there a limited window to remove the hedges as per European regulations?

OldMrBrennan83

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

You're not getting the point, or choosing to ignore it.

This work could have been completed much quicker, and could have been done by now, if the work was 24/7

Telling people "but it'll be grand in 6 months" (yet to be seen BTW.. I personally think it'll just move the outbound mess to the Carlow exit, and cause bigger logjams at the M50 inbound) just isn't a good enough answer for the second busiest road in the country and which is the primary link to Cork, Waterford, Limerick etc

That's one thing that's definitely obvious alright. Cars will maybe get to the M50 quicker in the mornings but I don't know where they're supposed to go then. Proper outer links to the M4 and M3 (for a start) may have been a better idea than adding a third lane to each side of this.

BuzzFish

Kevwoody wrote: »

Wasn't there a limited window to remove the hedges as per European regulations?

Easy enough alright to remove the hedge, widening the bridge might be tricky (you're on a bridge as you cross the canal).
I think this side conversation is a good example of the engineering teams knowing what they're at.... I don't think the majority on here have spent a single day studying engineering, operations management and planning, construction, traffic flow analysis and works scheduling etc etc etc etc. All well and good saying this could be done in a month, whole different ball game planning it, costing it, organising it and executing it and all the rest that goes with these projects.

Avatar MIA

BuzzFish wrote: »

All well and good saying this could be done in a month

You should name and Shame the person who said that. Meanwhile...

regedit

BuzzFish wrote: »

Easy enough alright to remove the hedge, widening the bridge might be tricky (you're on a bridge as you cross the canal).
I think this side conversation is a good example of the engineering teams knowing what they're at.... I don't think the majority on here have spent a single day studying engineering, operations management and planning, construction, traffic flow analysis and works scheduling etc etc etc etc. All well and good saying this could be done in a month, whole different ball game planning it, costing it, organising it and executing it and all the rest that goes with these projects.

I agree with trickiness of doing a big project BUT preparatory work you are referring to such as planning should have been done way before work started. The gripe many people have here is that they cordoned off the median in Jan and hardly touched it in 9 months. They parked heavy machinery in the median for months and the same were not moved. Operators were seen sleeping in machines or 5 builders looking as a JCB was doing something while, at the same time, we were stuck in traffic for hours. I work in Dublin and leaving the office any time between 3:30-6 PM meant it took me close to 2 hours to get home.

road_high

WhatsGoingOn2 wrote: »

They are on track to finish in time as scheduled. Why would politicians or media need to get involved? There is no story. (And yes, I do travel on it on a daily basis during rush hours for work)

Well that’s peoples point really- the timeframe and scheduling is all wrong given the msssive volume of traffic on this route to start with. Just because it’s scheduled to take 18 months doesn’t mean that’s ultimately sensible or a massive effort in planning and then operation should have been made to do that in less time. If construction is not ongoing at many times of the day, night, weekend and good weather then there is a failure to plan and take account of the massive volumes of traffic this road is required to handle

pad199207

5 car collision on the M7. Traffic lovingly backed up to the Curragh now.

Avatar MIA

pad199207 wrote: »

5 car collision on the M7. Traffic lovingly backed up to the Curragh now.

Just into work about an hour late. Need to factor in there's going to be a crash where the M9 and M7 merge. Something not quite right with having to factor in a crash as if it's normal.

While it might be stating the obvious, 'only merge when it's clearly possible to do so' - an information campaign might be required. Basically reiterating a law of physics that two bodies cannot occupy the same space.

Chris_5339762

I can understand a tip or two, but how on earth did 5 cars manage to get involved in an accident in a 60kmh zone?

prunudo

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I can understand a tip or two, but how on earth did 5 cars manage to get involved in an accident in a 60kmh zone?

Tailgating,
speeding,
on the phone,
looking at fb,
drinking coffee,
shaving,
putting on make up,
half asleep.

Choose from above (multiple choices are allowed)

But more than likely the first one.

Daz_

jvan wrote: »

Tailgating,
speeding,
on the phone,
looking at fb,
drinking coffee,
shaving,
putting on make up,
half asleep.

Choose from above (multiple choices are allowed)

But more than likely the first one.

I would definitely say on the phone option . It’s crazy how many people are looking at the phone and driving . See it all the time when I’m driving .

SoupyNorman

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I can understand a tip or two, but how on earth did 5 cars manage to get involved in an accident in a 60kmh zone?

A 60kph zone and literally nobody in the collision adhering to it I would imagine.

Lanes are so tight, im sure as soon as there is a tip cars bounce of the barrier into cars on the left

Cazale

pad199207 wrote:

5 car collision on the M7. Traffic lovingly backed up to the Curragh now.

There was a crash or breakdown yesterday evening too. It took me an hour and ten minutes to get from junction 12 to Grange Castle. I've told my manager I'll probably be late a couple of times a week until the roadworks are done in March. It's just too hard to judge at this rate.