electrofelix wrote: » Have been looking at getting the house zoned into upstairs, downstairs, and HW, but after reading up on many of the smart home heating controls (and most of this thread) I'm beginning to think there is a better alternative. Current have a single zone and planning to replace the boiler and cylinder, so aimed to get some improvements done to the heating at the same time. Had planned on EPH's 3 zone system and got a quote on what it would take to do the plumbing to separate existing setup into 3. The main two items on EPH that attracted me were: control via mobile & local controls if wifi/internet down But considering that we have a stove in place that now heats the sitting room and part of the dinning room/kitchen area once the two connecting doors are opened, and thinking about how to heat the office/study, which is in a adjoining section that is a garage for some houses, without wasting energy heating the rest of the downstairs, I'm starting to think it would be better to straight for the Honeywell evohome (or one of the others tado/hive/nest) as EPH don't appear to do the smart TRVs despite seeing some comments that they were looking at them up to 2 years ago. Assuming that would mean that we only need to adjust the plumbing for the hot water to have it zoned separately and use smart TRVs for everywhere else? The zones I'm thinking of: living room/kitchen and sitting room - 2 rads, grouped together for a single zone, also needs to handle stove being on some times utility & adjoining downstairs toilet - 2 rads, probably set a few degrees lower as used as food pantry and has the backdoor as well. study/office - 1 rad, only needs to be on sometimes so benefit from boosts hallway - 1 rad, maybe when looking to warm up upstairs as this heats part of upstairs as well master bedroom - 1 rad, set to come on in the mornings and evenings, maybe group with hallway spare bedroom & box room - 2 rads, to be put on only when visitors master ensuite - switch to towel rail and leave without a smart TRV (we use this more than the main bathroom) main bathroom - not sure if it's worth putting a smart TRV on this or leave open similar to the ensuite I'd still like to avoid needing to depend on the cloud, and like to ensure if the internet goes down the local controls can take care of everything. Does this make sense? Do any of the other systems do a better job for this type of zoning? I've heard that tado now look for a subscription but maybe that's just for the likes of the auto learning capabilities? Is it necessary to leave any of the radiators without a smart TRV or as long as it's the honeywell managing when the boiler fires it's not a problem? Or maybe not worth it?
Elizabeth Long Cone wrote: » Will the netamo only work on a single zone. I've 2 on a bungalow.heating and water. Or are energia just being lazy
deezell wrote: » Netatmo is somewhere between nest an tado. The stat has direct contacts for switching boiler like tado, but can also switch the contacts in its relay box wirelessly like Nest and Tado+ ext kit. Unlike the others it has no HW relay in it's relay box, but like tado it can accommodate smart TRVs via its relay to create more heating zones.
Elizabeth Long Cone wrote: » Can you please say that in English?:)
kaisersose77 wrote: » Me too , thanks Deezel. And a tip if anyone else runs into same issue as me with the nest where Nest Away was not working (not putting thermostat into Eco mode). If you have an android phone with software version 8.0+ you need to turn off battery optimization for the nest app or the Nest Away function will not work. Was driving me nuts until I came across that advice on reddit.
deezell wrote: » Im at a loss to understand why tado say you cant have 3 zones. Two heating zones and one timed HW zone is a bog standard Tado Installation. Perhaps they think you want to somehow preserve the current systems wireless features and integrate it with Tado. All that danfoss kit would be redundant, the remote receivers are all part of one unit, so you cant mix and match per se, but you could certainly set up the main zone under independent Tado stat control while leaving the other CH zone and HW control to the old system. It would just mean shifting a few wires around. The bigger issue is with the wireless nature of the current stat connections, it might be tricky to havr to wire one of the Tado wall stats back to the location of the zone valves and boiler control. A Tado stat, ext kit and extra stat will cover this job and youll need a mechanical stat for the hw cylinder as the wireless sensor one is part of the proprietary danfoss system you have. Two nest kits will do this also, and both nest stats will be wireless back to their respective ' heatlink' boxes, with one of the boxes and Nests chosen to control HW timing. Again, the HW cylinder will need a mechanical stat to replace the danfoss system.
john_doe. wrote: » I was wondering does Tado really support HW and 2 Zones or more? The user in the post below had the same issue previously when they contacted Tado support.https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057815654
deezell wrote: » There are plenty of posters here and on other fora who have 2 stats for ch. Tado sell the stat on it's own as an additional stat. Once you have the main stat and ext kit for one CH zone and HW, an extra stat can be added to control second zone valve. Page below from Tado's own site, couldn't be clearer.
john_doe. wrote: » Thanks ya that's what I got from their website also. But then some posters which contacted their support contradict this. Could never understand why . It looks like a really neat solution, but after reading reviews on trustpilot and the introduction of a new service subscription model for what were arguably some of Tados selling points it has but me right off . Not company I think I'd trust to control heating solution, you pay enough for the solution itself without needing to fork out for services. Shame as they have had a $50 million investment this week from people such as Amazon and u would imagine the product will advance.
deezell wrote: » On AV forums here,https://www.avforums.com/threads/tado-smart-thermostat.2077764/page-23 Posts #665-677, #681, and #702-706 pretty much covers it. Stick with V3 and you wont get subbed.
john_doe. wrote: » Thanks I've been back researching this and I've finally got someone to fix the plumbing itself. Tado customer service seems really poor from reading around. Evohome looks to be the best on the market However customers worry about lack of firmware updates now and the hardware looking old. Drayton Wider looks interesting- does anyone use that here ? Also one of the big drawbacks I'm seeing is the noise from the motorised TRVs - does it bother people ?
deezell wrote: » Agree with you on Evohome. Drayton looks good. I see the 2 stat 3 zone system on amazon for £204, similar price fir one stat 2 TRV system. Looks the business. Stats fully wireless. Trvs do whirr. Its a personal thing, I'm sure you'd hardly notice after a while, but light sleeping partners may succumb to rad rage, you might find the TRV in your porridge the next morning.
john_doe. wrote: » Haha given the painful setup of analog clocks she has at moment I think she won't mind the whizz. Ya the Drayton does look good.. I downloaded the app , you can run it in demo mode. What I noticed was: They have updated app regularly The interface is neat You can add multiple events to set times and different temps during day Cannot see the temperature of hot water. Downside is that it all goes to cloud , not much local control, and I don't like that I can't see the temperature of the water. Also there seems to be confusion on Irish support. The app wasn't available here before and u couldn't activate it , but now is , so I guess it can be used. I also downloaded the Ember app and ran in demo mode. Can see water temperature but limited to 3 events a day it seems and can't set multiple temperature based on events during the day. Seriously considering the Drayton now if I can figure out if they support use in Ireland and if there is a way I could measure the temp of hot water and display on phone The perfect system for me would be the Evohome with more slick software, regular updates and nicer looking TRVs. It has great remote and local control.
deezell wrote: » Systems which have a smart hot water stat are rare. Its not really needed as you use a mechanical cyiinder stat to set the temperature. When it drops the boiler fires and restores it. The only function of a smart control is to set the times the cylinder stat can call for heat. With a modern deep insulated cylinder there is hardly any point to this even.The idea that restricting by timer the times available to heat the cylinder will save you money belongs to a Des Bishop 'turn off the immersion' sketch. Seriously, what happens when you turn off HW heating for most of the day? The hot water will cool a little, and will require almost as much energy to reheat it as it would take to keep it topped up to stat temperature. The practice belongs to an era when uninsulated cylinders in draughty hot presses oozed out heat by the kilowatt. The new type cylinders can maintain HW for hours or days, like a thermos flask. Sure, if you have a bare copper cylinder with a bedraggled droopy lagging jacket hanging down like a builders underpants, then you have a heat loss problem. Get a new cylinder with a totally enclosed insulated inner chamber. Set the stat to about 60° and the timer to always on. Permanent HW, with only trivial fire of the boiler to maintain it when not at home. For holidays, just turn it off. It'll probably still be warm a week later.
john_doe. wrote: » Thanks for that , do you know of any TRVs out there that are controllable by phone with ability to either have them open or closed for scenario below: I install something like Ember EPH which gives me control but I have a lot of rooms in house I dont want to heat and it's pain to go around to each one and turn them off and on when needed via the manual TRVs. Would like to display them in something similar to Evohome but would not need temperature control , simply ability to shut them off or to lowest setting. For example I could have 12 TRVs that I didn't wanted to be on in evening , I would like to fire up an app and set them all off by toggling their state.
deezell wrote: » One thing you can do with Tado Trvs is slave them as on off valves to a single stat or trv. Turn the master down and they all turn off.
deezell wrote: » Eco and Novo both look like community heating TRVs, where heated water flow is independent of TRV demand. This would include normal installations with mechanical Trvs, which also can't fire the boiler. There's obviously a market to replace these with remote programable types, while leaving the boiler firing to a general stat and timer. There is some mention in the Danfoss Link Connect thermostat literature that the Connect thermostat can link to all danfoss TRVS, "Connect Thermostat Running on two AA alkaline batteries, Connect is simple to install and is compatible with all Danfoss thermostatic valves, as well as non-Danfoss valves. " This may enable boiler calling, or it may just mean that the TRVs will control their zone assuming the main stat is firing the boiler generally. Novo seems to be a startup to manufacture remote controlled programmable TRVs, to replace mechanical ones. You'd need to do your research on exactly what each device can do. You can buy an electronic programmable version of a TRV for small money, next step up is this with remote programming by app. Next again is integrating boiler control, and after that its the additional sophistication of the controlling software, allowing grouping, enabling TRV as the temp measuring device, slaving many to one etc. It would be easy to confuse a limited function electronic TRV with the integrated products such as netatmo and tado
john_doe. wrote: » Thanks again for that. There is a bloody lot of systems out there, I hadnt realised quite so many of the options. One major one I seem to have missed is Heat Genius or now Called Genius Hub. Looks like it operates on zwave trvs. Customer feedback seems excellent and app looks like its kept updated. I entered my details to get a demo. Nice app with charts etc. Seems to be kicking around number of years. Wonder does anyone here use it.
john_doe. wrote: » Some more screenshots of Genius Hub. Lot of options in the app. very impressive app, worth having a look at the demo. No idea how much it costs though
john_doe. wrote: » Noticed this on the Genius Hub website : "Can the system work with a back boiler in a solid fuel stove/fireplace?" "No, Genius Home does not work with a back boiler heating system as it cannot control the amount of heat coming from it." Does a system like this and Evohome not work with a back boiler? I don't understand it. Is it because the back boiler is delivering heat to a radiator with a smart Trvs and the boiler has no idea what's happening.
THE ALM wrote: » Thinking of switching my mothers heating controls out for Hive, might stop the calls every so often asking how to set it again!! as I can do it remotely. Looking at the setup and hive installation it looks like a fairly straight forward swap. Will have to check the next time I visit but I believe that, although it show water and heat, that the two can only be activated together at the same time and hot water can't be controlled independently of the heating. Have Hive ourselves and find it works great, so I'd be used to the system.Attachment not found.Attachment not found.Attachment not found.
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