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M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

JupiterKid

Following on from the suggestion of a poster, this thread has been set up to discuss the need for widening the M7.

The section of the M7 IMO in immediate need (really a backlog need) for widening is the section from the Maudlins Interchange at Naas to the M9 interchange - basically the original 1983 Naas Bypass and half of the 1993 Newbridge Bypass. Is this likely to proceed in the near future?

Would the central median be wide enough for widening to D3M here? I'm pretty sure it is wide enough on the Newbridge bypass section but I'm not so sure in the case of the Naas Bypass.

Also, what bridges will need to be demolished and rebuilt? Or would it be more practical to drop the hard shoulder through the existing bridges?

What about the proposal a few years back to build a new junction at on the Naas Bypass at Osberstown? Will it still go ahead?

In the longer term, does anyone see a need to widen the M7 to the N7/M8 junction?

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road_high

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Was just about to leave work when I was told about the accident. I headed off towards Galway and turned south. Saved a lot of time by all accounts, but saw parts of the country I doubt I'll ever see again. Who knew Tullamore actually exists.

There is simply no comparison alright on the sheer volumes on the N/M7 vs the M4 coming out of Dublin. Once past Maynooth it very quickly frees up into pleasurable driving. You need to go 35-50 km on the M7/9 for that to happen usually!

pad199207

road_high wrote: »

There is simply no comparison alright on the sheer volumes on the N/M7 vs the M4 coming out of Dublin. Once past Maynooth it very quickly frees up into pleasurable driving. You need to go 35-50 km on the M7/9 for that to happen usually!

Well it ain’t the 2nd busiest road in the country for nothing

Bards

road_high wrote: »

regedit wrote: »

doing that route 5 days a week.
The amount of cars (especially Fridays) driving from around Castlewarden and Kill) on the hard shoulder full speed to get from one exit to another is unbelievable. Hoping from one exit to another has become the routine! The speed limit of 80 and 60 isn't respected by most.
As far as I am concerned, very little progress was achieved to date on the main line. They should have started with the Naas North or Naas south exit and finished these,. That way, traffic would be diluted. The amount of heavy machinery just sitting idle with no operators is scary.
Let's hope they finish many things by March 2019

I think the speed limit is broadly being respected for the simple reason that most of the time it's almost impossible to actually do much more than 60 kmh!- in fact many would gladly take that at peak times if the traffic was actually moving freely!
I really think this should have been all done in 2010 in tandem with the M9 opening which was the point where traffic increased hugely on the M7. But of course the crash put pay to that.

Ah but sure the M9 is empty and no one uses it, a big white elephant they said. Less than 5,000 AADT was often quoted too

road_high

Bards wrote: »

Ah but sure the M9 is empty and no one uses it, a big white elephant they said. Less than 5,000 AADT was often quoted too

Yea that’s right! Even though its AADTs stand comparison with the M8,7,8...the M9 project has been a tremendous success- think the 5000 figure was conveniently used sometimes alright as it ignored the old N10 traffic which is now more integrated into the M9.

BuzzFish

duplicate

BuzzFish

Folks,

I took a snap from Kerry just now, think it gives a good view of the progress of the New J9a. I'm also commuting on the M8 late (11pmish) a couple of times a week and there have been a lot of lane closures and plenty of night work happening on the J10-J11 section which is having to cross the normally open lanes. This could be why posters are seeing equipment idle during the daytime as the contractors could be leaving it in place for the night works.

(Click the attachment link below the pic to see a bigger version)

attachment.php?attachmentid=463942&d=1539780433

attachment.php?attachmentid=463942&d=1539780433

serfboard

Bards wrote: »

Ah but sure the M9 is empty and no one uses it, a big white elephant they said. Less than 5,000 AADT was often quoted too

M9 2017 AADT figures (using 2017 because full year data available):

Between Junctions 2 and 3 - 23K (22752).
Between Junctions 3 and 4 - 20K (20075).
Between Junctions 6 and 7 - 15K (15253).
Between Junctions 8 and 9 - 9K (9051).
Between Junctions 9 and 10 - 13K (12928).
Between Junctions 11 and 12 - 11K (11231).

Big drop-offs after Carlow (J5) and Kilkenny (J8) - as you'd expect. Picks up again for Kilkenny->Waterford traffic.

The 9K figure is probably the full-length figure from Dublin to Waterford, but its role in 1) serving Carlow and Kilkenny and therefore 2) taking traffic off under-powered roads, is more than justified.

And, as I always say about these motorways, it will never have to be built again.

road_high

The old N9 between Kilkenny and Waterford in particular was dreadful alright and totally unacceptable. It wouldn’t have made any sense to stop the motorway at Kilkenny as the road south of there needed a complete rebuild anyhow. Traffic in the southern section has actually grown significantly as a result as it used be in the order of 6-7k vehicles through mullinavat. Now over 50% higher on the M9 as a result of the improved connectivity. I don’t think any of the other interurbans grew as much from the old N route but this was very predictable to any one in Kilkenny or Waterford as the old route greatly impeded access.
The northern part of the N9 wasn’t super either although it had some work in the 80s and 90s.
All this has naturally put huge extra pressure on the M7. My own preference for the M9 north of Cookstown would have been a route via Blessington into Dublin though this would have added a lot to cost but taken in the N81 which still badly needs attention.

Chris_5339762

See the thing with that section is that if you have 23k going down the M9 and say, 30k going down the M7, then you have 53k along the bit that is being widened which is waaay over capacity for a 2 lane road.

That said, the traffic level is only going to go up because I don't see a solution for the current commuting issues. Rail will cost billions, sorting the planning mess out won't happen politically.

Avatar MIA

road_high wrote: »

The old N9 between Kilkenny and Waterford in particular was dreadful alright and totally unacceptable. It wouldn’t have made any sense to stop the motorway at Kilkenny as the road south of there needed a complete rebuild anyhow. Traffic in the southern section has actually grown significantly as a result as it used be in the order of 6-7k vehicles through mullinavat. Now over 50% higher on the M9 as a result of the improved connectivity. I don’t think any of the other interurbans grew as much from the old N route but this was very predictable to any one in Kilkenny or Waterford as the old route greatly impeded access.
The northern part of the N9 wasn’t super either although it had some work in the 80s and 90s.

If you build it they will... Drive.

road_high

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

See the thing with that section is that if you have 23k going down the M9 and say, 30k going down the M7, then you have 53k along the bit that is being widened which is waaay over capacity for a 2 lane road.

That said, the traffic level is only going to go up because I don't see a solution for the current commuting issues. Rail will cost billions, sorting the planning mess out won't happen politically.

I think even the three lanes ain’t going to be enough. Upgrading the N81 would take some pressure off and maybe a link road to the M9 but I can see that being environmentally, cost and politically sensitive as the narrative is anti roads to some extent now.

road_high

Avatar MIA wrote: »

If you build it they will... Drive.

In the case of the N9 they just didn’t bother! I know myself I go a lot more to Waterford than I ever used to as i can do it in an easy 25 or 30 mins in pleasure and safety. Vs old route was double that plus stress. This is good for trade and the wider economy

[Deleted User]

road_high wrote: »

This is good for trade and the wider economy

How does driving to Waterford more often magically give you more money to spend in shops?

Surely you have less to spend, since more money is going on fuel and maintenance? Not to mention the hidden cost to the economy of more spurious trips?

road_high

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How does driving to Waterford more often magically give you more money to spend in shops?

Surely you have less to spend, since more money is going on fuel and maintenance? Not to mention the hidden cost to the economy of more spurious trips?

It generates trade and activity. Especially so for business as they can trade more efficiently and in a wider area.

MrDerp

road_high wrote: »

It generates trade and activity. Especially so for business as they can trade more efficiently and in a wider area.

Yep, I remember a colleague telling me his brother in law, a plumber, was able to take on 20% more work when the M8 and M7 opened (he lived in central/North Tipperary) because he could quickly and reliably cover more of the county in the same time, and small jobs were paying off. He earns more in a work day, and more people in rural areas can get a small job done.

Anecdotal, sure, but it highlighted to me how roads can have a good effect on the local economy

road_high

MrDerp wrote: »

Yep, I remember a colleague telling me his brother in law, a plumber, was able to take on 20% more work when the M8 and M7 opened (he lived in central/North Tipperary) because he could quickly and reliably cover more of the county in the same time, and small jobs were paying off. He earns more in a work day, and more people in rural areas can get a small job done.

Anecdotal, sure, but it highlighted to me how roads can have a good effect on the local economy

Exactly. Also opens up new employment opportunities for people that may have not considered or been deterred by an awkward commute before the motorway opening. The spin offs are immeasurable really and why states should invest heavily in quality infrastructure

marno21

MrDerp wrote: »

Yep, I remember a colleague telling me his brother in law, a plumber, was able to take on 20% more work when the M8 and M7 opened (he lived in central/North Tipperary) because he could quickly and reliably cover more of the county in the same time, and small jobs were paying off. He earns more in a work day, and more people in rural areas can get a small job done.

Anecdotal, sure, but it highlighted to me how roads can have a good effect on the local economy

Something I have often said about towns that are jams like Adare/Macroom/Tipp Town/Killarney. The amount of time spent by people like that driving between jobs sitting traffic and the loss of revenue must be staggering

Avatar MIA

Well this morning driving into Dublin was totally frustrating. If someone causes a crash (and we know it's because they are going in and out of lanes thinking they are bulletproof) can they please be banned from using a motorway for life for six months.

beertons

Was it a crash, or just a van broken down?

Avatar MIA

beertons wrote: »

Was it a crash, or just a van broken down?

Can't remember. Brought traffic to a complete halt, crawled along for best part of an hour.

sea12

Think it was just the white van that was broken down. horrendous though. One hour to travel duration of road works. No sign of any pick up truck or guards etc

_Kaiser_

sea12 wrote: »

Think it was just the white van that was broken down. horrendous though. One hour to travel duration of road works. No sign of any pick up truck or guards etc

Oh there was a Garda van passed me and the rest of the stopped traffic in the hard shoulder alright, but as usual they didn't get involved :rolleyes:

sea12

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Oh there was a Garda van passed me and the rest of the stopped traffic in the hard shoulder alright, but as usual they didn't get involved :rolleyes:

Another truck broke down this morning. Huge delays again. It’s going to get worse with dark mornings and evenings

beertons

They were saying on Kfm, that Naas guards recommend bypassing Naas/Newbridge north bound this morning. Sure how can ya do that, when you're already stuck. I didn't join the motorway till Johnstown Garden center, cut across by the Caragh road, Sallins, down by the golf course, then out.

regedit

I really struggle to comprehend how the builders are allowed to get away with not doing work in evenings? The traffic is lighter and they would finish the job much faster! Yes, it may be difficult to get people doing night-time shifts but I bet you there's a few people who would be more than happy to do it!
It's shambles the way it is. Dreading leaving work soon and I 'only' turn into Naas...

Avatar MIA

regedit wrote: »

It's shambles the way it is. Dreading leaving work soon and I 'only' turn into Naas...

For what it's worth I'm a FG supporter and generally don't knock the sitting government of whatever hue.

However, I would hazard a guess that there must be some formula such as for every 10 man hours lost due to traffic congestion on the M7 they lose a vote, or such.

Because consciously or subconsciously driver's will be thinking... 'is anyone at the wheel' (pun not intended) leadership wise to allow this clusterfcuk of a situation. *sigh*

_Kaiser_

I thought I remember reading somewhere on this board that it was because of the way the money/payments are structured.. It's absolutely ridiculous though that once again the site will be pretty much empty for the weekend shortly while the Friday evening traffic crawls through it for hours.

Kevwoody

Avatar MIA wrote:

Because consciously or subconsciously driver's will be thinking... 'is anyone at the wheel' (pun not intended) leadership wise to allow this clusterfcuk of a situation. *sigh*

Explain to me how it's a cluster****??
It's on schedule to be completed, the contractors have budgeted to be on site for a specific amount of time. Just because people drive past in the morning and don't see a new bridge or a third lane by the time they go past again in the evening, doesn't make it a cluster****.
Honestly, the amount of whinging on here is unreal. These are usually the people complaining when roads are in poor condition or over capacity, yet don't have the patience to wait for new infrastructure.

Honestly lads, give it a ****1ng break!

Mantis Toboggan

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I thought I remember reading somewhere on this board that it was because of the way the money/payments are structured.. It's absolutely ridiculous though that once again the site will be pretty much empty for the weekend shortly while the Friday evening traffic crawls through it for hours.

I'd imagine the way SIAC are looking at it is there's no benefit for getting the job done sooner than projected so they'll only do the bare minimum. They wasted the whole summer when the weather was fantastic and it was bright until 10 o clock. I'd often drive past at 4pm on a Friday to see the machines parked up for the weekend.

_Kaiser_

Kevwoody wrote: »

Explain to me how it's a cluster****??
It's on schedule to be completed, the contractors have budgeted to be on site for a specific amount of time. Just because people drive past in the morning and don't see a new bridge or a third lane by the time they go past again in the evening, doesn't make it a cluster****.
Honestly, the amount of whinging on here is unreal. These are usually the people complaining when roads are in poor condition or over capacity, yet don't have the patience to wait for new infrastructure.

Honestly lads, give it a ****1ng break!

This is one of the busiest roads in the country with massive traffic volumes dependent on it daily.

I have very little sympathy for the contractors and their budget planning, just as I have very little sympathy for whatever idiot approved the plan at Government level.

This should be a 24/7 operation until complete and open.