Cosmo Kramer wrote: » Really good documentary. Although I was a bit surprised at BOD's lack of understanding of the unionist viewpoint before going up there. Would have thought it would have come up more for him given how many unionist players he would have toured with during his career.
bilston wrote: » There are probably aspects of the programme we can't really talk about here. However watching it made me realise just how important a figure to Irish rugby Willie John McBride was and is. Without him it's possible England may not have come over in 1973 and maybe then we wouldn't have an all island team now. One very tiny political point to make...I'm a Northern Prod...I'm also a Unionist (albeit very liberal compared to some!) but for my situation I don't see a contradiction in being Irish, Northern Irish/Ulsterman and British. That is probably difficult for people south of the border to get their head around. So I can relate to the Orangemen that BOD spoke to in Loughall. I suppose it shows there are different definitions to Irishness. Hopefully that's not too political MODs, if it is delete away!
Paul Smeenus wrote: » Haven't seen the doc. Not sure I'll bother. BOD is obviously the biggest name in recent Irish history, which is why he's presenting it. But I don't know why you wouldn't get an Ulster player who knows firsthand about how complicated those loyalties are that pull you in different directions. He's kind of an everyman for the audience "I don't understand this any more than you, so you'll learn as I learn". It's the standard approach (he's the IRFU's Stacey Dooley!) But a more personal take would have been interesting. Tommy Bowen wants to do TV - a Northern Catholic Nationalist, playing for Ulster, and then Ireland. He must have some thoughts on it. Or Andy Trimble, who is very open and naturally funny.
Paul Smeenus wrote: » I think folk from other places find it hard to get their heads around the fact that we can be cheerfully British and Irish. A lot of people have a much simpler, more straightforward sense of identity, and consider it a binary thing. I don't. It took me a long time to get to the stage of being comfortable telling people, and dealing gracefully when they were often quite dismissive- "you can't be both!!" Yeah, I can. Ironically, what brought me to that conclusion is that fact that one of my best mates is a second generation British Indian. I always considered his sense of Inidain/British identity as much more complicated and nuanced than mine, and then realised that maybe that sense of not having one "off the shelf" identity was valid for me too. I grew up with him and it literally took years until I thought maybe there was a similar duality there. Haven't seen the doc. Not sure I'll bother. BOD is obviously the biggest name in recent Irish history, which is why he's presenting it. But I don't know why you wouldn't get an Ulster player who knows firsthand about how complicated those loyalties are that pull you in different directions. He's kind of an everyman for the audience "I don't understand this any more than you, so you'll learn as I learn". It's the standard approach (he's the IRFU's Stacey Dooley!) But a more personal take would have been interesting. Tommy Bowen wants to do TV - a Northern Catholic Nationalist, playing for Ulster, and then Ireland. He must have some thoughts on it. Or Andy Trimble, who is very open and naturally funny.
Mrcaramelchoc wrote: » Any idea where this can be watched? Going mad i missed it.
CatFromHue wrote: » Paul Smeenus wrote: » Haven't seen the doc. Not sure I'll bother. BOD is obviously the biggest name in recent Irish history, which is why he's presenting it. But I don't know why you wouldn't get an Ulster player who knows firsthand about how complicated those loyalties are that pull you in different directions. He's kind of an everyman for the audience "I don't understand this any more than you, so you'll learn as I learn". It's the standard approach (he's the IRFU's Stacey Dooley!) But a more personal take would have been interesting. Tommy Bowen wants to do TV - a Northern Catholic Nationalist, playing for Ulster, and then Ireland. He must have some thoughts on it. Or Andy Trimble, who is very open and naturally funny. I haven't seen it but I do know it was BOD's and Craig Doyle's idea to do the doc. They set up a production company to make it.
Paul Smeenus wrote: » Doesn't mean BOD had to present it. Suppose it means they didn't have to pay for a presenter. But I haven't seen it, so I'll reserve comment til I do.
Paul Smeenus wrote: » Well, most would see themselves as closer to Scottish. And their attitude to a lot of the English would be similar to the attitude of those from the People's Republic of Cork to D4. Or Mancs to Londoners. Or Derry wans to Belfastians. You can resent those you feel are part of your national family, as it were.
Paul Smeenus wrote: » Yeah, look at my first post, I know exactly why it was done that way. I just don't think that always gives the best insights in documentary - it can lead to conclusions that lack nuance. The doc may well be made exactly as they intended it. Do BOD and Craig Doyle know the best way to deal with the issue? I'm no more interested in hearing BOD examine the Northern Unionist meaning of playing for Ireland than I am seeing a man interview women about what childbirth is like. Just give the authorship to the ones with the experience of the unusual.
its_phil wrote: » Paul Smeenus wrote: » Yeah, look at my first post, I know exactly why it was done that way. I just don't think that always gives the best insights in documentary - it can lead to conclusions that lack nuance. The doc may well be made exactly as they intended it. Do BOD and Craig Doyle know the best way to deal with the issue? I'm no more interested in hearing BOD examine the Northern Unionist meaning of playing for Ireland than I am seeing a man interview women about what childbirth is like. Just give the authorship to the ones with the experience of the unusual. In the entire time you’ve spent debating about who’s presented it, you probably could have watched it. Book and cover metaphor never more apt.
