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A/R/tist in the spotlight - Testosterscone

HelenAnne

I'm delighted to introduce our next A/Rtist in the Spotlight

The helpfullest man on boards, always ready to give tips and advice, especially to new runners, a super-fast runner who's been running and competing for most of his life, a coach, a PT, and now a new dad!

It's TESTOSTERSCONE!

(He was in the spotlight, under a previous handle, about 6 or 7 years ago, but most of the boardsies have changed since then, and things have changed for him as a runner and personally since then, so it's very much worthwhile having him again).

Thank you for accepting my invitation.

Here are a few questions from me:

1. As a coach, what was the greatest improvement you saw in any of your coachees, and what led to it?

2. What's the one piece of advice you wish novice runners / new posters on boards would take to heart?

Thanks very much, we're off.

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Testosterscone

Haha you must be a mind reader as I am currently trying to make some positive changes to their now that I am back training and in a bit more of a routine with work so that hopefully I can carry the positive changes into when training builds back up to where I was

Bananaleaf wrote: »

1. How much water do you drink each day on average?

Fluid intake is pint of water first thing in the morning with two to three pints throughout the day and one post run. The rest comes from copious
Amounts of coffee and the odd can of Fanta ( both I am aiming to reduce)

Bananaleaf wrote: »

2. What does a typical days food look like on a training day?

When I was heavy training was generally as follows

Breakfast - scrambled egg with diced spring onion mixed in or porridge with a spoonful of peanut butter
Lunch - Home made wrap (pesto grilled chicken jalapeños and cheese) toasted
Dinner -
- late shift in work - pesto pasta, hummus/feta cheese salad
- home - lasagne, steak, grilled salmon chicken stir fry

This was not overly strict mind you and plenty of treats snacks etc which I have to cut down on as with 5 month old sleep is a precious commodity and I know I am gonna have to look at nutrition as a way of keeping energy levels high as well as the immune system in check

If you are looking to make small changes I couldn’t recommend slimming world highly enough a great way to have more awareness of what you are eating and changing lifestyle (as opposed to a diet fad that is not sustainable) been in the house the last few months and I can certainly see the benefits.

Outside of that best advice I can give-
- prep is key don’t be afraid to batch cook
- plan the shop/ meals. Don’t shop while hungry
- it’s not about being perfect 100% it’s about making better choices most of the time. Avoid habitual eating ( scoffing a packet of biscuits before you realize as you were only gonna have one)
- Have your food intake match your personality if you are a 3 square meal a day don’t change that likewise if you are a grazer implement changes within that format. Look at it as quality control vs overhaul
- Let the plate manage portions. 1/2 plate should be veg/leafy greens with a quarter starchy carbs and 1/4 protein. Will work as good as the obsessive macro counting that will drive you mad

Bananaleaf wrote: »

3. Prebaby, how much sleep per night would you

Change in work means that for the first time since joining the work force I will have set hours so this should help things. Currently working on about 6 not ideal but I am up between 6 and 7 with the baba non negotiable so depends on work and training (my runs this week have been 11pm post work) ideal should be more but it has often been less not ideal but doable if you manage the other aspects of your health you can keep energy levels up and he immune system in tact

MY BAD

For a typical track session. What is your routine? The latest you'll eat? How long of a warm up? Your drills routine? Cool down and stretching?

eyrie

Ok I've come up with a few too if I may

1. You get to the chance to travel to one race outside Ireland. Money, travel time, qualification etc no object. What would you pick?

2. You have a day & night off (no work, baby is being looked after elsewhere, house is already spotlessly clean...) to spend entirely as you wish. What would you do?

3. You get picked to represent Ireland in the Olympics, but it can't be for running. What sport would you compete in?

4. Favourite book / book that's had the biggest impact on you (if any)?

5. Any race mantras?

AuldManKing

A few more from me;

(1) Have you ever said NO to a request to coach someone?
(2) Do you coach other disciplines other than running (e.g. race walking / Steeplechase)
(3) Have you ever got so fed up with a coachee that you went seperate ways.
(4) If one of your athletes has a poor performance - do you do any analysis to see if the coaching could have been different or improved??
(5) Do you take it to heart if an athlete has a poor performance?
(6) Do you feel some of the credit if an athlete has a super performance?
(7) As we're all time poor - Name 5 Key S&C exercises for an athlete.

Testosterscone

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote: »

For a typical track session. What is your routine? The latest you'll eat? How long of a warm up? Your drills routine? Cool down and stretching?

Things have been less than ideal as of late and the warm ups/ cooldowns were part of the thing I was cutting back on but in ideal I tend to try and replicate warm up for races to a certain extent.

My routine when I was diligent with this was as follows

Food - No more than 1 hr before warm up
Warm up - 2-3 miles
Strides (track sessions) 1 mile of jog bends and stride the straights
Drills - (not the greatest on official names so apologies)

A Skips
Side to side Cross over
1,2,3 s (emphasis on foot strike under hips - clawing motion)
Ankle step overs
High Knee (out in from followed by lateral)
High Knee Bounds (for vertical height)
High Knee Bounds (for explosive power and forward momentum)
Scorpion

2-3 mile cooldown

Fairly time consuming as you can see, but well worth it if you have the time (normally sessions used to last 2 hrs including all that)

MY BAD

Thanks for the answers. I often wonder how long others will spend on the track. My sessions are around the same length, some of the guys I train with will go to the gym afterwards. I really admire their commitment

Testosterscone

eyrie wrote: »

Ok I've come up with a few too if I may
1. You get to the chance to travel to one race outside Ireland. Money, travel time, qualification etc no object. What would you pick?

Fukuoka Marathon, one of the purest marathon races in the world without the Kamakazee element of Lake Biwa (well at my standard anyway I don't think I have a 10 mile PB in me at the start of a marathon haha)

The Cinque Mulini (Italy) is one of the few true Cross Country races with a deep tradition still around.

eyrie wrote: »

2. You have a day & night off (no work, baby is being looked after elsewhere, house is already spotlessly clean...) to spend entirely as you wish. What would you do?

Always partial to a good hike or a walk. Have managed to get a good bit with the young lad as of late but still a bit young to hit the mountains too much just yet.

eyrie wrote: »

3. You get picked to represent Ireland in the Olympics, but it can't be for running. What sport would you compete in?

Hmm I would probably say Slalom (Canoe). Developed a bit of a bandwagon interest for it as through family friends (as well as ties to their family being heavily involved in running which struck up a few conversations at family occasions) who were heavily involved (multiple Olympic appearances and gut wrenchingly close to medalling). Find it a hugely interesting sport to watch ever Olympic cycle.

eyrie wrote: »

4. Favourite book / book that's had the biggest impact on you (if any)?

Probably Stormrider by David Gemmell. It's a good fantasy by no means a classic but it stoked my love for reading beyond academics.

eyrie wrote: »

5. Any race mantras?

Race the man not the clock. Majority of my better races have come from when I have refused to look at the watch and just faced what was around me. If I saw that the group was gonna be small I would take the front of a group to keep them in it for as long as possible to work off him in latter stages, likewise I have known people that I could beat with a sprint and saved it for a short but decisive burst.

At the end of the day you are never gonna beat the watch. Every minor slip up in a race the watch will punish you for, a PB is only resetting the bar for next time where as people will drive you on to beyond what you thought was possible.

Testosterscone

AuldManKing wrote: »

(1) Have you ever said NO to a request to coach someone?

Yes. For the most part I am happy to help anyone I can however If I feel I can't provide more than they are already getting or I feel they aren't gonna buy into the program or won't listen then I will say no or part ways. In those cases where someone won't listen you are both wasting your time and effort.

There have been some who I started to work with and quickly this became apparent.

Likewise there have been odd person I dropped the ball with for what ever reason and parted ways. For those I do apologize I have been coaching here for a number of years and have definitely made mistakes in this regard.

AuldManKing wrote: »

A few more from me;
(2) Do you coach other disciplines other than running (e.g. race walking / Steeplechase)

Not really. There is the odd crash course for the National leagues to get people up to scratch but as I am not down at the club more often tend to be pigeon holed a bit as I work exclusively with adults due to the remote nature and tend to want my distance expertise.

I did spend 6 months helping our sprints group in the club just to help take on some of the younger athletes and take the pressure off the head coaches. unfortunately given my work I was struggling to commit to set hours (shift work can be a nightmare in that regard)

AuldManKing wrote: »

A few more from me;
(3) Have you ever got so fed up with a coachee that you went seperate ways.

Yes as mentioned earlier if people are wasting my time (or I am wasting there's) then no point in relationship continuing as its wasting everyones time. I don't think there is anyone I have parted ways with on bad terms (that I know of anyway) but there has been plenty of coming and going over the years

AuldManKing wrote: »

(4) If one of your athletes has a poor performance - do you do any analysis to see if the coaching could have been different or improved??

Yes I think as a coach you never stop learning, about the person or the sport and every result good or bad provides more info to learn from. I rarely make knee jerk reactions to a performance (big PB or complete blow up) but I do take on board and hopefully learn from it

AuldManKing wrote: »

(5) Do you take it to heart if an athlete has a poor performance?

Yes definitely if someone puts there faith in me then I have an expectation on myself to deliver. If there are factors that can be isolated to the cause of the poor performance then I will leave it there but when can't see anything apparent it definitely does play on your mind

AuldManKing wrote: »

(6) Do you feel some of the credit if an athlete has a super performance?

Might seem a bit contradictory given my previous response but no. I can set up the greatest training plan ever (one that Lydiard or Canova would be proud of) and have an athlete not perform. The training I prescribe is roughly 10 hours or about 6% of the week. No matter how good that is there is 94% opportunity to cock that up. What we do outside of the training helps determine the success of a plan.

My job is to make sure people are running specifically hard (respective of their event), gaining confidence and recovering enough to implement it and not get injured. You can't outrun a piss up and kebab every friday night before a session, a post session take away and a regular all nighter it catches up with you in one way or another.

The training will look after itself as long as the athlete does

AuldManKing wrote: »

A few more from me;
(7) As we're all time poor - Name 5 Key S&C exercises for an athlete.

Rather than try and cram all aspects into one here and have a mish mash session I am gonna do a list for each different purpose

Fundamental Strength (Barbell work)
Squats
Deadlift
Bench Press
Overhead Press

These are the absolute basics to weight training yet will work just about every muscle.

Conditioning (Bodyweight exercises)
Burpee
Mountain Climber
Single leg glute Bridge
Push Up
Lunge

Yoga/flexibility
Childs Pose
Warrior Pose
Cobra Pose
Pigeon Pose
Downward facing dog

Mobility (fine as part of warm up)
Inchworm
Donkey Kicks
Lunge Matrix
Runners Touch
Rolling Crucifix

Explosive power
Pogo
Single leg bounds
Jump Tuck
Bulgarian Split Squat Jump (advanced movement)
Lateral hops

pgmcpq

Great thread. I've enjoyed reading your post over the years in you different personas !

Sorry if this has been asked before but I have not caught up on the entire thread.

I'm interested in how you approach remote coaching. I've seen more than a few situations where I've really wondered why an athlete sticks with a remote coach when it seems to me (as an observer) that they are just on completely different wavelengths, and I wonder it anything other than inertia keeps the relationship going. Recently someone told me about arguing with their remote coach after ending in tears after a failed session and I was really wondering whether this was doing either of them any good.

So I'm curious about the measurement v intuition balance,
What information do you use to decide on training.
Are you primarily looking at stats - e.g HR, or the garmin training effect (btw, what do you think of this) or is this just supplemental to what an athlete is telling you about.
To what extent do you "trust" what the athlete is telling you ?

Testosterscone

pgmcpq wrote: »

Great thread. I've enjoyed reading your post over the years in you different personas !

Sorry if this has been asked before but I have not caught up on the entire thread.

I'm interested in how you approach remote coaching. I've seen more than a few situations where I've really wondered why an athlete sticks with a remote coach when it seems to me (as an observer) that they are just on completely different wavelengths, and I wonder it anything other than inertia keeps the relationship going. Recently someone told me about arguing with their remote coach after ending in tears after a failed session and I was really wondering whether this was doing either of them any good.

So I'm curious about the measurement v intuition balance,
What information do you use to decide on training.
Are you primarily looking at stats - e.g HR, or the garmin training effect (btw, what do you think of this) or is this just supplemental to what an athlete is telling you about.
To what extent do you "trust" what the athlete is telling you ?

:eek:

Maybe it is the fact that money is no involved but the people who I work with approach me. They lay out where they are coming from and what they want and I reply in kind so from the start everyone is clear from the off. From there it becomes a bit of a dialogue and a sussing out period the understand the nuances (personalities etc) and it becomes a 2 way street. There is no commitment people are free to walk away at any point. There is a little bit of buy in but ultimately many people have come to me base on my track record. Alot of the time I will raise whether someone wants to continue with the training following a target race etc just to broach the subject to make people feel like they are not trapped out of guilt or obligation.

I have never experienced a heated argument with a coachee because for me at that point I would be thinking;

a) the athlete just wont listen so nothing I say will change that and it is time to part ways

b) Why did the session fail, for this there should be no anger with the athlete but rather questioning my coaching didn't work that is not on the athlete that is on the coach to figure out what is wrong. If a coach (and I do mean a coach not just someone who says do x and you will get y as that is not coaching that is a prescriptor and those sort of coaches have no place in the sport)

In terms of metrics I base my training off. I use a bit of everything to be honest

95% of my athletes are on strava so where HR is available its a good guide (not so much the exact figures but graph plot points can give a good idea of how hard they worked

Race results are a good gauge and as I give general pace guides rather than exact pacing sometimes the interpretation of this (if someone is always overshooting for example)

Boards logs and emails are also a great resource as often they give away information without the athlete even realising it. Often it is what is not said or how something is said that gives the info I am looking for. As you get to know the athletes as well you also learn to read between the lines somewhat

Swashbuckler

Great thread so far. Thanks for taking the time. I'll get in with my last questions. I feel somewhat guilty so only 50% are for selfish reasons and the other 50% are actually to get to know the man behind the emails

1. How far in advance do you know a coachees training i.e are your coachees in training blocks that are planned far in advance and adjusted accordingly from feedback or is it purely week by week?

2. How would you recommend a general Joe Bloggs should structure their year? Someone who has no specific long term goals in mind.

3. If someone has specific goals eg wants to improve at 10k do you have a clear idea of how to structure things for the year or do you play it by ear and determine it from feedback? I often wonder should the coach determine the structure of the year or is it the coachee who should push the plan and say what races he/she wants to run. Reason I ask is I would imagine coachees sometimes don't know what's best for them. I might suggest I'd like to target a HM next when in reality speed training would serve me better long term for example.

4. Do you have some sort of Master Excel file with all the runs and sessions everyone you coach has run since you started coaching them with comments on their progress and observations?

5. What's the biggest challenge as a coach?

6. Greatest achievement in life?
7. Biggest regret?
8. First car?
9. Most scared you have ever been?
10. When were you last in a scrap? And did you win?

skyblue46

I'll add to the list of those loving the thread so far, thanks a million.

1. Do you like the newly launched Dublin jersey? Are two tone shorts a step too far for GAA?

2. Have you ever asked a coachee to run a race of 5k or over without a watch?

3. Are Vaporfly 4% the running equivalent to the titanium headed golf driver? Are €250 shoes the future for PB chasing?

4. Do you prefer hard or soft boiled eggs?

5. If Ireland had a Grand Slam to compare to the 4 golf or tennis majors what 4 races should they be?

6. Has the Kia Race series been a success? I know this can be answered considering different metrics but the answer is up to you.

AuldManKing

Swashbuckler wrote: »

4. Do you have some sort of Master Excel file with all the runs and sessions everyone you coach has run since you started coaching them with comments on their progress and observations?

Yes - this has me interested too - how you manage information with the number of athletes you have and as per the previous Q, is it a set plan that's tweaked from week to week

I imagine a filing system, a dark room, leather bound books on dusty shelves, stretching back years that has taken up numerous boxes when L moved house recently...........

Hannibal_Smith

Oasis or Blur?

Stones or Beatles?

If you could live in another era which era would you feel you most belong? And Why?

Why don't you charge for coaching, like other online coaches?

Running clearly is your love. Do you envisage an angle where you could make a living from it?

dna_leri

Testosterscone wrote: »

:eek:

Maybe it is the fact that money is no involved but the people who I work with approach me. .

You don't get paid for your coaching ?! :eek:
I assumed you did, hence my previous questions.

Kurt.Godel

dna_leri wrote: »

You don't get paid for your coaching ?! :eek:

Pretty shocked by this too! I've always paid any remote coaches I've had, would have assumed that was the norm if the athlete is getting value from the coach.

Going back to your earlier answer on the value of clubs paying coaches Testosterscone- why don't you get paid for your coaching?

RayCun

Me three!

Working class heroes

Credit where it's due, fair play L.

Sacksian

But you're being paid for this thread, right???

Testosterscone

Swashbuckler wrote: »

1. How far in advance do you know a coachees training i.e are your coachees in training blocks that are planned far in advance and adjusted accordingly from feedback or is it purely week by week?

General outline of what I wanna get out of the training block is done well in advance but the session specifics and finer details are generally done week to week. I used to sit planning out meticulously training plans from beginning to end but have come to appreciate that get more out of not being a slave to a pre determined plan as there are too many variables in life that can influence things from week to week.

Swashbuckler wrote: »

2. How would you recommend a general Joe Bloggs should structure their year? Someone who has no specific long term goals in mind.

Its a bit of a loaded question as you could go in many directions but I think you can't go wrong with staying in decent 10k training for most of the year but as an example I worked with a guy (3.30 last year) had a good aerobic background but we spent a couple of months post marathon in XC training. He then jumped into a little bit of indoor track for some shorter distance work training didn't change too much but offered a chance to work on turnover this catapulted perfomance in spring when he went back to 10k work marathon work only actually kicked in again 10 weeks prior to his target. Currently operating at a level where a sub 3 should be well in his wheelhouse.

Whatever about structure, consistency is where you will make gains. An 18-20 week training plan is all well and good but the real jumps in performance come from 10-12 months solid work put in.

Swashbuckler wrote: »

3. If someone has specific goals eg wants to improve at 10k do you have a clear idea of how to structure things for the year or do you play it by ear and determine it from feedback? I often wonder should the coach determine the structure of the year or is it the coachee who should push the plan and say what races he/she wants to run. Reason I ask is I would imagine coachees sometimes don't know what's best for them. I might suggest I'd like to target a HM next when in reality speed training would serve me better long term for example.

Swashbuckler wrote: »

4. Do you have some sort of Master Excel file with all the runs and sessions everyone you coach has run since you started coaching them with comments on their progress and observations?

I wish I was that organised haha

I did at one stage however between the alternating between work and home for emails I moved to Google sheets which ran into proxy issues at one stage. With that said I have my emails well set up to filter all correspondence so that I can look back on them as well as strava to look back on.

Swashbuckler wrote: »

5. What's the biggest challenge as a coach?

To fully buy into the whole plan (i.e cross country, all the ancillary work, trying track ) all the subtle things that can make a big difference.

Swashbuckler wrote: »

6. Greatest achievement in life?

Hmmm. Good question ultimately I would not highlight any particular achievements too much. Normally my expectations are ever shifting to the point where be it work, running, education etc I have always managed to elevate myself to the level required while always moving forward and progressing.

Swashbuckler wrote: »

7. Biggest regret?

Not learning balance earlier in life. When I was training I was training well, when socialising I was going 100 mph, when ate well I it looked really good but when I pigged out it was atrocious. There was no balance, no consistency I was obsessive (to an extent I still am) and I think this is why I tried to veer towards the more positive things to obsess on rather than try balance it

Swashbuckler wrote: »

8. First car?

A pocket rocket of an Opel Corsa. I believe it is still going strong nearly 20 years on and can probably be spotted somewhere in the North West of the country. Actually can I change my last answer, biggest regret was giving up that car :P

Swashbuckler wrote: »

9. Most scared you have ever been?

This year. After being awake for the best part of 50 hours I was introduced to my newborn son. While the OH was in recovery I was brought into a private room and left there with himself with the realization that I was responsible for another human being from here on in.

Swashbuckler wrote: »

10. When were you last in a scrap? And did you win?

Was never a big fighter (weighing in at a whopping 9 and 1/2 stone found it harder to find guys in my weight class to make it a fair fight :P) a few scuffles in my teens as a result of defending friends etc but more the usual shenanigans

My last incident was a result of little scumbags acting the maggot stealing our bins to burn. Confronted them however not long after a car pulled up and 4 guys jumped out and I ended up with a broken nose and deviated septum. Sadly this is the way of the world these days in that you are not just dealing with the person in front of you anymore.

Duanington

Testosterscone wrote: »

A pocket rocket of an Opel Corsa. I believe it is still going strong nearly 20 years on and can probably be spotted somewhere in the North West of the country. Actually can I change my last answer, biggest regret was giving up that car :P

20 years on?! You were driving when you were a toddler on top of everything else?! Some man, L - full of talent

Testosterscone

Duanington wrote: »

20 years on?! You were driving when you were a toddler on top of everything else?! Some man, L - full of talent

Haha whoops, the car is nearly 20 not my driving (minus a few off road lessons on a Honda 50 growing up :pac:)

Testosterscone

skyblue46 wrote: »

1. Do you like the newly launched Dublin jersey? Are two tone shorts a step too far for GAA?

I do think the going back to the navy collar was a good move however I missed the shorts when I glanced at it at first. Mother of God :eek:

skyblue46 wrote: »

2. Have you ever asked a coachee to run a race of 5k or over without a watch?

Yes, rarely worked. Half the time it's why I push for XC just to nulify the watch. Not against wearing one (do it myself) but it takes a hell of alot of discipline to wear one and not look at it so would advocate to not wear till you can get that confidence. In an ideal world I would love to not wear one in a marathon (or atleast get to that stage)

skyblue46 wrote: »

3. Are Vaporfly 4% the running equivalent to the titanium headed golf driver? Are €250 shoes the future for PB chasing?

Not in the slightest. Yes Kipchoges exploits are impressive and Ross Tucker would argue his improvements correlate with the shoes and yes the data supports improvements across various levels of ability but for me the two biggest caveats are;

1. Kipchoge is the greatest marathon runner ever. He ran 2.04 back in 2015 to win when his shoes were literally falling apart from 10k in

2. For the average punter if you are gonna invest $250 in shoes then you are gonna bother your h0le actually getting out and doing a bit of training and improve.

There are still plenty of runners performing that are non Nike athletes

(And I am not just saying this because I refuse to wear Nike shoes out of principle

)

skyblue46 wrote: »

4. Do you prefer hard or soft boiled eggs?

Soft boiled every time

skyblue46 wrote: »

5. If Ireland had a Grand Slam to compare to the 4 golf or tennis majors what 4 races should they be?

I would aim to have one in each province and vary distance without putting in a marathon (keep the distances close enough to increase competition

Dungarvan 10 mile
Armagh 5k
Dunshaughlin 10k
Fields of Athenry 10k

skyblue46 wrote: »

6. Has the Kia Race series been a success? I know this can be answered considering different metrics but the answer is up to you.

I think it has helped the races that are involved. All these are seeing record numbers. I don't think it has taken off yet in terms of promoting the high quality at the top end just yet but I think this will probably happen over the coming years. All in all I think it has been successful enough to continue and grow organically.

Testosterscone

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Oasis or Blur?

Was always an Oasis fan growing up

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Stones or Beatles?

I like both definitely however give me Blackbird or Norwegian Wood every day of the week

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

If you could live in another era which era would you feel you most belong? And Why?

I am an 80/90s baby I feel like I was born in the right era. The cheesey music for pop before getting into the likes of Metallica (The Cliff Burton era and the height of the band)

It was also a golden age for comic books between Chris Claremonts run on X-men to the likes of the Batman/Spiderman animated series etc

Testosterscone

dna_leri wrote: »

You don't get paid for your coaching ?! :eek:
I assumed you did, hence my previous questions.

Kurt.Godel wrote: »

Pretty shocked by this too! I've always paid any remote coaches I've had, would have assumed that was the norm if the athlete is getting value from the coach.

Going back to your earlier answer on the value of clubs paying coaches Testosterscone- why don't you get paid for your coaching?

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Why don't you charge for coaching, like other online coaches?

Running clearly is your love. Do you envisage an angle where you could make a living from it?

Just for clarity I have received gifts etc from people and people I work with have been very generous over the years (and I do thank them for that) but from the start it is made clear that I am not looking for anything and even am initially reluctant with gestures as I don't want anyone feeling like they have to give me anything. The only thing I expect from people is full commitment to the training and to not waste my time.

In terms of charging for coaching there are a few reasons for this;

1) As I said I am not a great salesman never have been and probably never will be. I like to let my record speak for itself and a bit like when I said I do take bad performances to heart to an extent I would probably feel guilty to the point of refunding if someone missed there target race goal etc, could probably implement a no PB no fee style lawyer claim but that in itself has a host of problems which brings me to my next point

2) I am not comfortable with the buying success mentality. I think there are many in Ireland who have a mindset where there is a relationship between price and value. If x charges twice as much as y then x has to be twice as good. This is a dangerous mindset to be in especially when it comes to coaching as the price is seen as assuring success which puts all of the onus on the coach which is all well and good but in a remote setting if you are drinking 4 nights a week, takeaway every second day and getting the sessions done as prescribed you won't see the value from the training and ultimately these factors ignored due to the price. A bit like the Vaporfly phenomenom where people are buying left right and centre and almost ignoring the other positive tenets which drive performance improvement

As for Kurt's point on an almost double standard view of coaching in club via remote in terms with payment this is actually part of the reason as well. There are plenty of very good coaches who show up at club week in week out working with people for no money showing up to races and getting damn good improvements. For me many of these are deserving of getting paid to the point where I would feel guilty charging when I know there are so many so much more deserving of this. The standard of remote coaching in this country (and in general) is relatively poor (I include myself in this) on a whole and well below the smaller pool of active club coaches who are getting real meaningful results.

This inverted revenue vs value aspect in some ways motivates me to not be financially driven (lucky enough in the sense that I have had secure long term employment for over 10 years as well as the supplemental therapy work)

Who knows that could change in time depending on circumstances and there may possibly come a time when this is feasible but the security of a full time job is something which I have always be conscious of as I am not the greatest risk taker in any aspect of life and only further compounded with a family now.

Testosterscone

Sacksian wrote: »

But you're being paid for this thread, right???

Paid by the word :cool:

RayCun

Testosterscone wrote: »

As for Kurt's point on an almost double standard view of coaching in club via remote in terms with payment this is actually part of the reason as well.

Send your stable a link to the transfer forms :pac:

Testosterscone

RayCun wrote: »

Send your stable a link to the transfer forms :pac:

Haha it's funny I have managed to convince a number of athletes to join clubs.... never once has it been Tallaght AC (to the expense of a number of county,provincial and national medals)

MY BAD

Testosterscone wrote: »

Just for clarity I have received gifts etc from people and people I work with have been very generous over the years (and I do thank them for that) but from the start it is made clear that I am not looking for anything and even am initially reluctant with gestures as I don't want anyone feeling like they have to give me anything. The only thing I expect from people is full commitment to the training and to not waste my time.

In terms of charging for coaching there are a few reasons for this;

1) As I said I am not a great salesman never have been and probably never will be. I like to let my record speak for itself and a bit like when I said I do take bad performances to heart to an extent I would probably feel guilty to the point of refunding if someone missed there target race goal etc, could probably implement a no PB no fee style lawyer claim but that in itself has a host of problems which brings me to my next point

2) I am not comfortable with the buying success mentality. I think there are many in Ireland who have a mindset where there is a relationship between price and value. If x charges twice as much as y then x has to be twice as good. This is a dangerous mindset to be in especially when it comes to coaching as the price is seen as assuring success which puts all of the onus on the coach which is all well and good but in a remote setting if you are drinking 4 nights a week, takeaway every second day and getting the sessions done as prescribed you won't see the value from the training and ultimately these factors ignored due to the price. A bit like the Vaporfly phenomenom where people are buying left right and centre and almost ignoring the other positive tenets which drive performance improvement

As for Kurt's point on an almost double standard view of coaching in club via remote in terms with payment this is actually part of the reason as well. There are plenty of very good coaches who show up at club week in week out working with people for no money showing up to races and getting damn good improvements. For me many of these are deserving of getting paid to the point where I would feel guilty charging when I know there are so many so much more deserving of this. The standard of remote coaching in this country (and in general) is relatively poor (I include myself in this) on a whole and well below the smaller pool of active club coaches who are getting real meaningful results.

This inverted revenue vs value aspect in some ways motivates me to not be financially driven (lucky enough in the sense that I have had secure long term employment for over 10 years as well as the supplemental therapy work)

Who knows that could change in time depending on circumstances and there may possibly come a time when this is feasible but the security of a full time job is something which I have always be conscious of as I am not the greatest risk taker in any aspect of life and only further compounded with a family now.

Ha your inbox will be full after this thread

Kurt.Godel

Testosterscone wrote: »

In terms of charging for coaching there are a few reasons for this;
...

Excellent answer, on a number of fronts. It can be difficult to put a monetary figure on doing something you are good at (or something that helps others, or something you enjoy...) and its often easier to just do it and leave that figure at zero to avoid the hassles/expectations/entitlements that money can bring.

On the subject of "charging for coaching" there's almost an inverse relationship- its been my experience that the best coaches are reluctant to take payment (its clear they are not doing this primarily for the money, as opposed to the multitude of "personal trainer" gurus). However, as a coachee I feel more committed to a coaching program if I'm paying for it, so that's an aspect to consider if you do become a better salesman and decide to charge €X/month. A small monthly stipend squirrelled away for Juniors college fund would grow nicely and offer testament to the time and effort you put into helping others.

(apologies I don't mean to imply what you should or shouldn't do, just that I find the topic interesting and your honesty even more so)