Pregnant Sheep Skinned Alive, hung on barbed wired

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

The hole in the stomach thing is nearly entirely in America because they are feed corn

It's to study and treat digestive issues.

Do you think that the average farmer is going to have thousands of dollars to spend on each of his hundreds of cattle to have a port put in so he can then spend hours and hours pumping corn in like petrol when the cattle are perfectly happy to shove it in their gobs for free with no more effort from him than filling troughs?

kylith wrote: »

Being able to get enough calories from a totally animal-free diet is a very new phenomenon, and still involves using supplements in order to get all necessary nutrients.

It's not a new phenomenon at all. There's plenty of plant foods available to meet our calorie requirements and all nutritional requirements. The only real concern eating a whole food, plant based diet is B12 and Vitamin D. Vitamin D wouldn't be an issue if we lived in more human friendly climates and B12 wouldn't be an issue if industrialisation hadn't diminished it. Animal feed is also fortified with B12 don't forget, and there's still plenty of meat eaters who are deficient in B12 too.

kylith wrote: »

I'm not sure I'd count most of Italy, France, Japan, Inuit peoples, large parts of Germany, and every Irish person who has ever tucked into a nice piece of smoked salmon, to name but a few as 'a few that eat it'. Turning green around the gills over the idea of raw meat is cultural more than anything else.

Cooking anything came about because it makes the calories and nutrients easier to digest. In order to get enough calories from a raw vegetable diet you would need to do nothing but eat for about 12 hours a day. If we hadn't taken to eating meat we would never had had the energy to evolve to the level we are now.

You want to talk green around the gills, try eating a raw potato.

I saw no 'flailing about', I saw flopping as the animal was moved from one position to the other, and that would have been minimised if the shearer had two arms. Hurting or mistreating the animals is not in a shearer's interest: a sheep that fears shearing is going to be panicky and hard to control, which means that shearing will take longer and decrease productivity. Seriously, have a look at shearing videos: once the sheep is sitting then it is calm, it knows the drill. Not a drop of blood is spilled because, funnily enough, fleeces covered in blood are harder to sell.

I agree. And I think that that can be achieved within the framework of an omnivorous diet.

As I said, a vegan diet is not a locally sustainable one. A vegetarian or omnivorous diet which focuses on a lower intake of meat than a lot of people currently go for is a much more environmentally friendly one.

Cooked starches probably played the biggest role in our evolution/development, not meat. There's plenty of raw vegetables and fruits especially, that are perfectly palatable and digestible without cooking.

I saw knees being used to force the sheep into position. You can't deny there'd be outrage if these same methods were used on a disabled person. Yes, the sheep knows the drill, how sad, if you subdue an animal, it will eventually just go along with how you want it to act.

How is a vegan diet not locally sustainable? What's missing? Even in Ireland, we have so much plant food on offer.

Xcellor wrote: »

I'm using an example outside of veganism to demonstrate how ethics change and evolve. Even our ethics around animals have changed. Practices that were considered perfectly fine and acceptable a few years ago are now looked down upon and shunned by the majority. A few that spring to mind, circuses using animals, fur + hunting.At some point it became viewed as unethical. If we except that non human animals can suffer and it's wrong for this to happen, why does it become right when the suffering happens behind closed doors?

Do you seriously have to hijack thread about a sheep for that? Personally I dont give a frack about any vegan version of reality, imaginary ethics or whatever some vegans believe in.

:rolleyes: x10

Lady Haywire

cormie wrote: »

We're certainly capable of consuming meat, that doesn't mean it's the ideal food for us though. Have a look into the long term effects of eating animal proteins.

What lies are they spreading? Most people are not good communicators, especially when they get passionate about something, this includes most vegans and they can say these things without realising how they come across and that saying such things isn't going to do any good for the farmer, the vegan or for the animals. That doesn't mean they are spreading lies though. The advised practices for dairy farming and rearing dairy cows, do include how to impregnate the cow. This is done against their will. This is called rape when it happens to a human. You can call it what you want when referring to it in relation to a cow, but the act is still the same.

Why filter your nutrients through an animal when you can go direct to the source? Why feed all that food to an animal who will then only feed so many people, when you could feed more people if they were to eat the food you fed the cow?

How can you humanely kill someone who doesn't want to die?

The longest living populations ever studied ate a primarily vegan diet, look up the seventh day adventist's and the Okinawan's. Also look at how the health of the Okinawan's deteriorated as their animal product intake increased.

You may also want to look at these before making the above statements regarding our history:

Lies? Oh pus in milk, that we beat animals daily, videos that are heavily edited to make it look like abuse goes on in daily farming life. That we actively don't give a toss about the animals in our care. That cows cry for their calves, that we shoot baby calves at birth etc etc.
Have you farmed or been on a farm to see a cow in heat? She's actively looking for a bull & it's actually safer to AI them due to a bulls temper/size. I'd say terming it even close to rape is fairly disgusting.

Why feed all that food to an animal? Hmmm i dunno, the grass out there doesn't look too appetising to me tbh. Poor ground in the west here doesn't grow much & isn't accessible to larger machinery for tillage or crops so there's not much more to do with it. If I wanted to bring the land up to a quality suitable for large scare veg or grain i'd have to dump one hell of a lot of manure to fertilise it up to standard. And where could I get that.....oh i dunno.....cows perhaps? Or chemical stuff imported (more air miles) from Eastern Europe. Naw, no thanks.

Vegan neaderthals, hmm, all those bones that can be found with butchering marks, were they done by aliens?

kylith wrote: »

Do you think the bull takes her out for a few dates? Gets to know what her favourite music is, her favourite author? Asks her if she is ready to settle down and start a family?

As for vegan neaderthals... were all those spears they found for particularly vicious carrots? Did they bury their dead with meat for, idk, company? Did they build shelters out of the bones of mammoths that they just found lying around?

It's likely that meat consumption amongst our prehistoric ancestors was a lot lower than it is today. However this is more likely to be because of frequent lack of success at hunting than out of preference: plants are a lot easier to chase down than elk, after all.

Did you watch the video or just saw the title and decided to have a go?

What happens in nature between a bull and cow is what happens in nature, we have a moral compass and you can't honestly say it's cool to jack off a bull and then fist a cow to get that bulls semen into her, or is that what you're saying?

cormie wrote: »

How is a vegan diet not locally sustainable? What's missing? Even in Ireland, we have so much plant food on offer.

Go on. What foods can be grown in Ireland that will constitute a nutritionally complete diet? You've already said yourself that lack of B12 and D are issues.

cormie wrote: »

Did you watch the video or just saw the title and decided to have a go?

I watched a bit of it, enough that that bloke made it unwatchable. But do you have anything further to add to it? Neaderthals used spears, bones have been found in Neanderthal settlements with clear signs of butchery, Neaderthals buried their dead with lumps of meat. That alone is enough to dispell any notion of veganism. Not to mention that the vegetables available to them were nothing like the ones we have today. The selective breeding of root veg hadn't begun, the selective breeding of grains hadn't begun, the selective breeding of leaf vegetables hadn't begun, the farming of any of them hadn't begun.

Eta: This: https://myediblebackyard.net/2014/05/02/wild-carrot/ is what a wild carrot looks like, the type that our prehistoric ancestors would have eaten.

Wheres Me Jumper?

this thread has gone seriously off-topic.
i was of the understanding it was an examination of criminality and animal cruelty, but has somehow morphed in a discussion on the pros & cons of veganism.

kylith wrote: »

Go on. What foods can be grown in Ireland that will constitute a nutritionally complete diet? You've already said yourself that lack of B12 and D are issues.

You're the one who brought up being locally possible. We live in a global economy now and that's not going to stop. Why don't you point out what nutrients can't be obtained in Ireland so? B12 doesn't count since that's been depleted everywhere and even animal feed is fortified with that. Vitamin D, from the sunshine if we get out in it enough, from mushrooms.

If you're not bothered answering, just don't forget that a vegan diet is confirmed to be adequate for all stages of life. So you're contributing to an industry that's causing unnecessary harm to animals, you can choose to continue, or source your nutrition from the many alternative plant based sources.

kylith wrote: »

I watched a bit of it, enough that that bloke made it unwatchable. But do you have anything further to add to it? Neaderthals used spears, bones have been found in Neanderthal settlements with clear signs of butchery, Neaderthals buried their dead with lumps of meat. That alone is enough to dispell any notion of veganism. Not to mention that the vegetables available to them were nothing like the ones we have today. The selective breeding of root veg hadn't begun, the selective breeding of grains hadn't begun, the selective breeding of leaf vegetables hadn't begun, the farming of any of them hadn't begun.

Eta: This: https://myediblebackyard.net/2014/05/02/wild-carrot/ is what a wild carrot looks like, the type that our prehistoric ancestors would have eaten.

What further do you want me to add to it? A user stated there were no tribes in history that were vegan, I pointed to a tribe that by all evidence, appear to have been vegan... I also pointed to the seventh day adventists and Okinawan's as the longest living populations ever studied, who were between them consumed barely any animal products, and there's even a vegan section of the seventh day who fared better in the studies too. Nothing more needs to be said.

cormie wrote: »

...[/B] Where's the propaganda? This is simply footage taken from a multitude of some of the highest welfare farms across the UK. Surely these farms have regular inspections by DoA too, so you see footage from "high welfare" farms and think they should be reported to the authorities, but yet you're confident every animal killer out there and every stun gun is efficient and effective and the animals never suffer? ...
Then you go blame "The vegans" for not reporting them as if they are the bad guys? Vegans in general are for rights, not welfare. .....

Cormie - Come on - it's all a big vegan con. That video you linked to 'Land of Hope and ****e' or whatever is a big pile of poo.

Not only did the vegan guys who broke in to those farms in the UK to get footage, do so illegally - the video makers can't even stand over the Veracity of the footage they used as they failed to report it to anybody.

Who knows where the actual video footage came from. The film is also obviously highly edited and makes out that the footage applies everywhere in the UK. No it doesn't. The big question remains if that bunch of vegan hoodlums were so interested in filming those animals welfare- why would they not report same? It makes no sense whatsover. Even the RSPCA called them up on that.

Vegans Interested in 'animal rights' really? If vegans got their way their would be no farmed animals. They wouldn't exist. Not much of a 'right' that - is it?

Just like the usual stupid vegan footage you yourself linked here showing Australian slaughterhouse training WTF? Or your heavily tattooed skinny muscled friend who again uses footage from abroad to talk about Ireland! Oh and she goes in about animals being pumped full of "hormones and antibotics' - more absolute bulkskite. In Ireland antibiotics are heavily restricted and the use of hormones banned for years.

So yeah it's all propaganda and the videos put together by vegans to push vegan propaganda are at best a joke.

I really don't care what you want to eat or what you want to post. Just don't expect people not to call it out for what it is - complete and total bulkskite...

cormie wrote: »

You're the one who brought up being locally possible. We live in a global economy now and that's not going to stop.

So you can't do it, is that what you're saying?

I can go out and buy a few acres of land. I can grow vegetables and keep hens and goats, do a bit of fishing, and live a totally healthy life.

I can't find anything online about animal feed being fortified with B12, could you supply some? What I can find is information saying that it is made by bacteria in the gut of many animals, including cattle and sheep. That would suggest that adding it to their feed is not necessary.

cormie wrote: »

What further do you want me to add to it? A user stated there were no tribes in history that were vegan, I pointed to a tribe that by all evidence, appear to have been vegan... I also pointed to the seventh day adventists and Okinawan's as the longest living populations ever studied, who were between them consumed barely any animal products, and there's even a vegan section of the seventh day who fared better in the studies too. Nothing more needs to be said.

Seventh Day Adventists are not a tribe, having existed only since the 1860s... and furthermore their diet is in the majority vegetarian, not vegan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church#Health_and_diet

Okinawan people historically have eaten fish and pork. Not piles of it, but not vegan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa_diet

archer22 wrote: »

No I am not...because if we were we would be able to run like the wind and be happy to eat meat raw.

Archer22 - do you eat your beans and soya raw? No? Why is that? Do you eat cacti and grass? Why not?

Would it be something to do with the fact that beans and soya are indigestible and in some case even poisonous when eaten in the raw state? And humans cannot digest grass at all! :eek:

Yes meat can be eaten raw but humans discovered something called 'fire' - if you havnt came across it previously. With it we cook our food!
:rolleyes:

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Lies? Oh pus in milk, that we beat animals daily, videos that are heavily edited to make it look like abuse goes on in daily farming life. That we actively don't give a toss about the animals in our care. That cows cry for their calves, that we shoot baby calves at birth etc etc.
Have you farmed or been on a farm to see a cow in heat? She's actively looking for a bull & it's actually safer to AI them due to a bulls temper/size. I'd say terming it even close to rape is fairly disgusting.

Why feed all that food to an animal? Hmmm i dunno, the grass out there doesn't look too appetising to me tbh. Poor ground in the west here doesn't grow much & isn't accessible to larger machinery for tillage or crops so there's not much more to do with it. If I wanted to bring the land up to a quality suitable for large scare veg or grain i'd have to dump one hell of a lot of manure to fertilise it up to standard. And where could I get that.....oh i dunno.....cows perhaps? Or chemical stuff imported (more air miles) from Eastern Europe. Naw, no thanks.

Vegan neaderthals, hmm, all those bones that can be found with butchering marks, were they done by aliens?

Pus: https://nutritionfacts.org/2011/09/08/how-much-pus-is-there-in-milk/

Or does it not count because it's from the US, or are you saying Irish dairy cows are immune to udder infections?

Videos are edited to cause as much impact and portray what can happen as effectively as possible.

Abuse goes on in daily farming life if you agree that captivity and ownership of another being is abuse.

Many farmers treat their animals extremely well, and I've no reason to believe you're not one of these. It's unfortunate you have to make a living at the expense of other lives at the moment and I know it's a tough business, but there are alternatives.

Why interfere with what a cow and bull do in the first place? You don't interfere with what other species do, you're only interfering for profit, not to protect the cow. There's plenty of mating rituals in nature that may not be particularly safe.

Why is terming it as rape disgusting? What's different about it? If it was a human female kept captive and fisted against her will, would you call it rape? Even if that same lady was "up for it" while roaming free in the garden of Eden?

You said it yourself, appetising, so you believe taking the life of another is warranted because the result can be more appetising?

How much of what you feed your cows is imported do you know? There's plenty of organic matter that can be used to fertilise soil.

If you're not going to watch the video fully, then at least check the resources he's linked to.

wexie

cormie wrote: »

Abuse goes on in daily farming life if you agree that captivity and ownership of another being is abuse.

I think you'll probably find most of us here don't agree in fact.

Out of curiosity I take it you feel that keeping pets is wrong as well then?

cormie wrote: »

Pus: https://nutritionfacts.org/2011/09/08/how-much-pus-is-there-in-milk/
...
Or does it not count because it's from the US,

No Cormie - it doesn't count because that website is run and owned by Dr Gregar who is a well known vegan propagandist who is heavily criticised by fellow members of the medical profession in the US.

From a previous post

With regards to Dr Greger - he remains a controversial figure who has been criticised by other medical professionals for his extreme stance on the promotion of a vegan lifestyle. It has been said that "Greger often overstates the known benefits of such a (vegan) diet as well as the harm caused by eating animal products (for example, in a talk, he claimed that a single meal rich in animal products can "cripple" one's arteries), and he sometimes does not discuss evidence that contradicts his strong claims."

What you posted is more vegan rubbish I'm afraid. If you cant back stuff up without resorting to vegan propagandists then it's a busted boot ok ..

gozunda wrote: »

Cormie - Come on - it's all a big vegan con. That video you linked to 'Land of Hope and ****e' or whatever is a big pile of poo.

Not only did the vegan guys who broke in to those farms in the UK to get footage, do so illegally - the video makers can't even stand over the Veracity of the footage they used as they failed to report it to anybody.

Who knows where the actual video footage came from. The film is also obviously highly edited and makes out that the footage applies everywhere in the UK. No it doesn't. The big question remains if that bunch of vegan hoodlums were so interested in filming those animals welfare- why would they not report same? It makes no sense whatsover. Even the RSPCA called them up on that.

Vegans Interested in 'animal rights' really? If vegans got their way their would be no farmed animals. They wouldn't exist. Not much of a 'right' that - is it?

Just like the usual stupid vegan footage you yourself linked here showing Australian slaughterhouse training WTF? Or your heavily tattooed skinny muscled friend who again uses footage from abroad to talk about Ireland! Oh and she goes in about animals being pumped full of "hormones and antibotics' - more absolute bulkskite. In Ireland borh have been heavily restricted for years.

So yeah it's all propaganda and the videos put together by vegans to push vegan propaganda are at best a joke.

I really don't care what you want to eat or what you want to post. Just don't expect people not to call it out for what it is - complete and total bulkskite...

Do you think the animals in that film are paid actors placed there by the vegans? How can you deny that abuse happens in farming? I don't know the reason they haven't come forward, maybe as you said yourself, they may have taken the footage illegally, I don't know the reasons. You're saying the video is highly edited like special effects were added. Of course it's edited.

Yes, farmed animals wouldn't exist. Do you think African slaves should be born into captivity just so they can exist?

What's wrong with showing standard practice in Australia? It actually looks like a very efficient slaughter house. Is the one you bring the animals you keep more efficient? How?

Hormons and antibiotics have been heavily restricted, does that mean outlawed or restricted?

So what is the vegan propaganda you haven't answered, Why don't you agree with that philosophy? You think it's ok to cause harm where harm isn't necessary?

kylith wrote: »

So you can't do it, is that what you're saying?

I can go out and buy a few acres of land. I can grow vegetables and keep hens and goats, do a bit of fishing, and live a totally healthy life.

I can't find anything online about animal feed being fortified with B12, could you supply some? What I can find is information saying that it is made by bacteria in the gut of many animals, including cattle and sheep. That would suggest that adding it to their feed is not necessary.

Tell me what you're getting from hens, goats and fish that can't be sourced from plant sources.

B12 for animals: https://www.agridirect.ie/product/vitamin-b12-cobalt

kylith wrote: »

Seventh Day Adventists are not a tribe, having existed only since the 1860s... and furthermore their diet is in the majority vegetarian, not vegan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church#Health_and_diet

Okinawan people historically have eaten fish and pork. Not piles of it, but not vegan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa_diet

The seventh day fall into the dictionary's definition of a tribe. Yes, their diet is mostly vegetarian, but there are studies done comparing the vegetarians to the vegans with the vegans coming out on top in terms of health.

I didn't say Okinawan's were vegan either, I said their diet was primarily vegan and as they consumed more animal products, their health worsened.

Lady Haywire

cormie wrote: »

Pus: https://nutritionfacts.org/2011/09/08/how-much-pus-is-there-in-milk/

Or does it not count because it's from the US, or are you saying Irish dairy cows are immune to udder infections?

Videos are edited to cause as much impact and portray what can happen as effectively as possible.

Abuse goes on in daily farming life if you agree that captivity and ownership of another being is abuse.

Many farmers treat their animals extremely well, and I've no reason to believe you're not one of these. It's unfortunate you have to make a living at the expense of other lives at the moment and I know it's a tough business, but there are alternatives.

Why interfere with what a cow and bull do in the first place? You don't interfere with what other species do, you're only interfering for profit, not to protect the cow. There's plenty of mating rituals in nature that may not be particularly safe.

Why is terming it as rape disgusting? What's different about it? If it was a human female kept captive and fisted against her will, would you call it rape? Even if that same lady was "up for it" while roaming free in the garden of Eden?

You said it yourself, appetising, so you believe taking the life of another is warranted because the result can be more appetising?

How much of what you feed your cows is imported do you know? There's plenty of organic matter that can be used to fertilise soil.

If you're not going to watch the video fully, then at least check the resources he's linked to.

White blood cells are not pus. White blood cells exist to fight off infection so if a cow is fighting infection there's going to be a raised about of those in the milk, yes. But it's not pus in any manner of speaking :rolleyes:
Actually it is done to protect the cow too, if she's small & a neighbours bull breaks in and covers her (oh no, the bull raped her!) I would inject her & use a smaller bull instead. For her own good.

Just on your mention of taking a life for another, are all lives equal then? Because if so we shouldn't be going around swatting insects or spraying off veg because they're animals too. Or should we only save the ones that look sorta cute? And I mentioned appetising as I physically can't digest grass so no, it doesn't look good to me.

Very little of it is imported, a lot of irish grains are used for animal feeds as it's of poorer quality.

wexie wrote: »

I think you'll probably find most of us here don't agree in fact.

Out of curiosity I take it you feel that keeping pets is wrong as well then?

Do you not agree that causing harm, where harm isn't necessary, is wrong?

With regards to pets, I am of course against breeding pets. The problem is, pretty much every bit of land on earth is the property of someone, so where a free roaming dog in Ireland will end up in a pound and later put down, then if someone can give that dog a better quality of life, then great.

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Pretty much anything we eat, whether it's plant or animal, has been "interfered" with in some manner by humans.

Yup, the idea is to cause the least amount of harm possible. We all **** over others by our mere existence.

gozunda wrote: »

No Cormie - it doesn't count because that website is run and owned by Dr Gregar who is a well known vegan propagandists who is heavily criticised by fellow members of the medical profession in the US.

From a previous post

More vegan propaganda bs I'm afraid
If you cant back stuff up without resorting to vegan propagandists then it's a busted boot ok ..

The more you repeat the word propaganda, the less credibility you have. Is there anything you've seen that you don't class as propaganda? What about the other video I linked to early with the lady, this one: https://youtu.be/qbpyCC0g2yg Propaganda too? Are you disagreeing with the dietetic associations stance on a vegan diet too? Is that propaganda too?

Buford T. Justice XIX

cormie wrote: »

Pus: https://nutritionfacts.org/2011/09/08/how-much-pus-is-there-in-milk/

Or does it not count because it's from the US, or are you saying Irish dairy cows are immune to udder infections?

Videos are edited to cause as much impact and portray what can happen as effectively as possible.

Abuse goes on in daily farming life if you agree that captivity and ownership of another being is abuse.

Many farmers treat their animals extremely well, and I've no reason to believe you're not one of these. It's unfortunate you have to make a living at the expense of other lives at the moment and I know it's a tough business, but there are alternatives.

Why interfere with what a cow and bull do in the first place? You don't interfere with what other species do, you're only interfering for profit, not to protect the cow. There's plenty of mating rituals in nature that may not be particularly safe.

Why is terming it as rape disgusting? What's different about it? If it was a human female kept captive and fisted against her will, would you call it rape? Even if that same lady was "up for it" while roaming free in the garden of Eden?

You said it yourself, appetising, so you believe taking the life of another is warranted because the result can be more appetising?

How much of what you feed your cows is imported do you know? There's plenty of organic matter that can be used to fertilise soil.

If you're not going to watch the video fully, then at least check the resources he's linked to.

You do, of course, realise that Somatic Cells, or to use your vernacular, pus, is a normal mammalian function in the defence against infection. They are present in all mammalian milk in small quantities, even in human breast milk.

So, again using your vernacular, consumed human pus cells when you were a child any and descendents of yours will be consuming them as a matter of course.

The interesting thing is there are strict limits to the acceptable levels of Somatic Cells in cows milk but none at all for human milk. So technically, human milk can be fed with higher levels of 'pus' than cows milk.

Buford T. Justice XIX

cormie wrote: »

Do you think the animals in that film are paid actors placed there by the vegans? How can you deny that abuse happens in farming? I don't know the reason they haven't come forward, maybe as you said yourself, they may have taken the footage illegally, I don't know the reasons. You're saying the video is highly edited like special effects were added. Of course it's edited.

Yes, farmed animals wouldn't exist. Do you think African slaves should be born into captivity just so they can exist?

What's wrong with showing standard practice in Australia? It actually looks like a very efficient slaughter house. Is the one you bring the animals you keep more efficient? How?

Hormons and antibiotics have been heavily restricted, does that mean outlawed or restricted?

So what is the vegan propaganda you haven't answered, Why don't you agree with that philosophy? You think it's ok to cause harm where harm isn't necessary?

Tell me what you're getting from hens, goats and fish that can't be sourced from plant sources.

B12 for animals: https://www.agridirect.ie/product/vitamin-b12-cobalt

The seventh day fall into the dictionary's definition of a tribe. Yes, their diet is mostly vegetarian, but there are studies done comparing the vegetarians to the vegans with the vegans coming out on top in terms of health.

I didn't say Okinawan's were vegan either, I said their diet was primarily vegan and as they consumed more animal products, their health worsened.

Primarily vegan or, as society would term it, omnivorous.

Xcellor

Taking a high dose B12 each week isn't a huge price to pay to prevent needless death and suffering of billions of non-human animals every year. I made a choice based on my ethical position. Sure as one person it's not going to make a dent in those billions but maybe one day.

My health has also improved to the point I don't need to medicate for high blood pressure or cholesterol. My grand parents suffered multiple strokes/angina/heart
attacks so it runs in the family.

For me it's been a win win.

cormie wrote: »

Do you think the animals in that film are paid actors placed there by the vegans? How can you deny that abuse happens in farming? I don't know the reason they haven't come forward, maybe as you said yourself, they may have taken the footage illegally, I don't know the reasons. You're saying the video is highly edited like special effects were added. Of course it's edited. .

It remains a bunch of extemist vegan hoodlums broke into some farms - produced some highly edited footage and then 'claimed' it showed poor animal welfare issues in the UK.

The RSPCA and others called bull****e on that and rightly so.

If you know as much as you claim to know about farming you would know exactly how the use of antibiotics are heavily restricted and the use of hormones have been banned for years.

Not being personal - but the problem with every other silly vegan propagandist who appears on Boards sprouting drivel is that they get their 'information' from other vegan propagandists- mainly from the US and Australia.

Of course feel free to spout away all you like - even hijack other threads - but just dont expect that type of rubbish not to be held up to scrutiny by other posters

_Brian

Vegans/veggies think we can turn the whole world into a veg patch and feed us like our ancestors did.
News flash, they used the manure from their farmed animals to grow the veg, they also milked the cows and slaughtered them for their meat, it was a holistic system where
Everything had it’s place and purpose.

It’s interesting that the handful of vegans I know work in multinationals and sit in Coffey chain stores sharing their knowledge of how their way of life is so much better for everyone. Not one grows so much as a head of lettuce. It’s an ideology, like a religion of sorts, it’s not an actual real way of a population living and thriving. There’s no evidence of a large population of people surviving successfully by living a vegan lifestyle.
Traditional farming is proven and will meet the demands of an ever increasing population. It will develop to do this on a sustainable way that more complements the environment, animal husbandry is improving all the time and will continue to do so.

More cruelty is served onto pets that farm animals, and I know many vegetarians and vegans who keep pets.

Lady Haywire wrote: »

White blood cells are not pus. White blood cells exist to fight off infection so if a cow is fighting infection there's going to be a raised about of those in the milk, yes. But it's not pus in any manner of speaking :rolleyes:
Actually it is done to protect the cow too, if she's small & a neighbours bull breaks in and covers her (oh no, the bull raped her!) I would inject her & use a smaller bull instead. For her own good.

Just on your mention of taking a life for another, are all lives equal then? Because if so we shouldn't be going around swatting insects or spraying off veg because they're animals too. Or should we only save the ones that look sorta cute? And I mentioned appetising as I physically can't digest grass so no, it doesn't look good to me.

Very little of it is imported, a lot of irish grains are used for animal feeds as it's of poorer quality.

So infected udders are still milked and still fed to the masses. Either way, whether there's pus, white blood cells or calcium in the milk, the fact still remains, the process is cruel and inevitably ends in the slaughter of the cow either way and the fact still remains that animal proteins and fats are detrimental to human health and that we don't need this to survive, and therefore, the act is unnecessary and should therefore be considered wrong.

This applies to the breeding and rearing of animals for profit too, so an ideal world, there'd be no bull that "belongs" to the neighbour, there'd just be the cows and the bulls living as they did before humans came along and interfered.

As I mentioned, the aim is to cause the lease amount of harm possible. If I can be nutritionally satisfied without harming another, why wouldn't I? Yes, there's still deaths that are inevitable for a vegan to survive, but why cause more suffering than we need to?

And you tell me, if you had a dog and it had puppies, would you feel worse about drowning them than you would about sending calves off for veal, just because you may think the puppies are cuter?

There's plenty of food you can digest that grows here though.

Very little imported? Doesn't sound like it: https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/farming/we-depend-two-times-more-on-imported-animal-feed-than-our-neighbours-832683.html