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Pregnant Sheep Skinned Alive, hung on barbed wired

thomasm

Pregnant Sheep Skinned, strung up on barbed wire, legs cut off and throat cut. Anyone who can do this needs to be removed from society. As desensitized as we have become in general these days this is just barbaric

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/rural-crime/farmers-shock-as-pregnant-sheep-skinned-alive-in-field-37370886.html

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Xcellor

gozunda wrote: »

Lol even more vegan preaching :pac:

Now about that poor sheep ...

I'm using an example outside of veganism to demonstrate how ethics change and evolve.

Even our ethics around animals have changed. Practices that were considered perfectly fine and acceptable a few years ago are now looked down upon and shunned by the majority. A few that spring to mind, circuses using animals, fur + hunting.

At some point it became viewed as unethical. If we except that non human animals can suffer and it's wrong for this to happen, why does it become right when the suffering happens behind closed doors?

98q76e12hrflnk

Tilikum17 wrote: »

Mmmmmm delicious 12 inch meat feast pizza.

So tasty the place had to close down.

Couldn’t make it up.

The OP said he was in Carlow hardly much business to keep it running :pac:

ganmo

Xcellor wrote: »

Would you be happy to have a barber handle your child like that if they were going for a haircut? Look at the video I showed previously on wool. Does using any animal against their will, for any reason that isn't necessary to our survival or health, not resonate with you as immoral in any way?

Then you go blame "The vegans" for not reporting them as if they are the bad guys? Vegans in general are for rights, not welfare. They don't want animals used at all, they aren't ok with gentle abuse, gentle rape and quick slaughter. I don't know the details, but as long as the demand will be there, there will always be varying standards of welfare. The aim is to cut the demand which will reduce all instances of animal ownership and abuse, not just the ones treated extra bad.

did you watch the video I put up? did ya notice anything strange about the shearer?

your video...the handling is shocking...the cutting was banned...but brought back for welfare reasons and as you say Vegans don't care about welfare. I'd hope they're trying to change something so that they don't have to do it in future

cormie

gozunda wrote: »

So said every other vegan preacher ever. :rolleyes: Ffs I've read the same drivel so many times on Boards and elsewhere it's ridiculous. Stop watcing the stupid propaganda videos and trust me you'll find you feel a lot better. This is a story about a sheep and not some daft personal belief system. Thanks....

Huh? First you say why do all vegans say that they were big meat eaters before going vegan, then when I tell you I was never really a big meat eater, you say "so said every other vegan preacher ever"

What drivel are you referring to and what exactly are you calling propaganda?

What exactly do you disagree with?

Do you disagree with the American and British dietetic associations?

If you don't disagree with them, then it's only logical that you agree that causing harm to these animals is unnecessary if we don't need them for health/survival or any of our needs, not wants.

If you then agree that causing harm, where harm is known to be unnecessary, is wrong, then anyone who knowingly contributes to the suffering of others, when they know it's not a necessity, can be said to be acting against their moral principles.

So rather than just spouting words like propaganda and drivel, can you put forward a logical argument how the above is flawed?

garv123

fryup

Sheep Skinned Alive....

...part of a satanic ritual ??

cormie

ganmo wrote: »

did you watch the video I put up? did ya notice anything strange about the shearer?

your video...the handling is shocking...the cutting was banned...but brought back for welfare reasons and as you say Vegans don't care about welfare. I'd hope they're trying to change something so that they don't have to do it in future

What you quoted looks like it's fro Xcellor when it was my post you're responding to

I noticed the shearer had only one arm straight away yeah, if that's what you're referring to, that doesn't excuse his rough handling of the sheep. As I asked, would you be happy if your child was handled like that while getting a haircut?

How I said it may not have been clear, but what I meant is vegans are generally for rights over welfare, I didn't mean they don't care about welfare of course. The ideal scenario is all animal exploitation ceases , then all the animals go to a sanctuary to live out their lives as comfortably as possible, so all the mutilation and selective breeding that has caused these animals to be a victim within their own bodies, will stop. That's never going to happen overnight unfortunately and it will most likely be a gradual phase out as awareness increases and culture changes. I'm not saying it's going to desist completely, but the less animals that are bred to be used as nothing more than commodities, the better.

ganmo

i wouldn't mind too much once the hair was cut and the ears weren't

cormie

ganmo wrote: »

i wouldn't mind too much once the hair was cut and the ears weren't

If you saw your child wanting to get out of the seat and the barber shoved his knees into him to keep him back in the seat, you'd be ok with that?

kylith

cormie wrote: »

I noticed the shearer had only one arm straight away yeah, if that's what you're referring to, that doesn't excuse his rough handling of the sheep. As I asked, would you be happy if your child was handled like that while getting a haircut?

Is your child entirely covered in thick wool? Is your child capable of understanding instructions? You do understand that there are differences between humans and sheep, yes?

This is a regular event for sheep. They are used to it, and in summer I can only imagine that shearing is a blessed relief for them. Have you seen what happens sheep if you don't shear them? You think that being unable to move and dying of heatstroke is a better option?

cormie wrote: »

The ideal scenario is all animal exploitation ceases , then all the animals go to a sanctuary to live out their lives as comfortably as possible.

Which is never going to happen, the costs would be astronomical. You're right that from a vegan point of view a gradual phasing out will be the best that can be hoped for. However, that will still mean many animals in dairy or meat industries that are superfluous and will wind up being slaughtered and, due to lack of demand, what do we do with the carcasses? And then there's the loss of biodiversity: no sheep on the mountains, no cattle in the midlands, instead pesticide-laden monocultures of grain, or vast tracts of unproductive land that's unsuitable for anything but livestock.

archer22

Can't understand why some people get so upset about Vegans and Vegetarians expressing their views...Jasus lighten up guys!.
It's not like they are going to grab the greasy auld burger out your pudgy mitts and throw it on the floor.

Anyhow their diet is a perfectly viable alternative for people who only wish to eat to live as nature intended....however I can see how gluttons who live to eat might have problems with it.

Bigbagofcans

What's even more annoying than vegan preachers are vegan bashers who spout the usual sh1te that they looooove meat and proceed to make the same old anti-vegan jokes. :rolleyes:

kylith

archer22 wrote: »

Anyhow their diet is a perfectly viable alternative for people who only wish to eat to live as nature intended....

You are aware that nature intends us to live as omnivores, right?

Lady Haywire

archer22 wrote: »

Can't understand why some people get so upset about Vegans and Vegetarians expressing their views...Jasus lighten up guys!.
It's not like they are going to grab the greasy auld burger out your pudgy mitts and throw it on the floor.
Anyhow their diet is a perfectly viable alternative for people who only wish to eat to live as nature intended....however I can see how gluttons who live to eat might have problems with it.

I get annoyed because they are spreading lies about what farmers do. I've said it before & I'll say it again, they could go around eating trees for all I care, but it's when i get called heartless/murderer/accessory to cattle rape that I draw the line.
I'd much prefer to see an animal brought up locally, eating feed that we can't (substandard grain, grass, etc) and getting killed in an efficient, humane fashion and providing food for many people, than eating soya cr@p/imported foodstuffs with how many air miles behind it.

There has never been a tribe in history which lived as a vegan society. So I wouldn't say as nature intended.

archer22

kylith wrote: »

You are aware that nature intends us to live as omnivores, right?

No I am not...because if we were we would be able to run like the wind and be happy to eat meat raw.

wexie

archer22 wrote: »

and be happy to eat meat raw.

You mean like carpaccio? steak tartare? sushi?

archer22

wexie wrote: »

You mean like carpaccio? steak tartare? sushi?

Well I have never seen anybody eat raw meat and I am sure if you put it on a plate in front of most people they would turn green around the gills either before eating it or after.

Just because there are a few that eat it doesn't make it the rule.

Lets put it this way, there are no Tigers who would get repulsed at the sight of raw meat.

cormie

kylith wrote: »

Is your child entirely covered in thick wool? Is your child capable of understanding instructions? You do understand that there are differences between humans and sheep, yes?

This is a regular event for sheep. They are used to it, and in summer I can only imagine that shearing is a blessed relief for them. Have you seen what happens sheep if you don't shear them? You think that being unable to move and dying of heatstroke is a better option?

Which is never going to happen, the costs would be astronomical. You're right that from a vegan point of view a gradual phasing out will be the best that can be hoped for. However, that will still mean many animals in dairy or meat industries that are superfluous and will wind up being slaughtered and, due to lack of demand, what do we do with the carcasses? And then there's the loss of biodiversity: no sheep on the mountains, no cattle in the midlands, instead pesticide-laden monocultures of grain, or vast tracts of unproductive land that's unsuitable for anything but livestock.

There's of course a difference between humans and sheep, but which part of that difference makes it ok to mistreat one and not the other? So instead of a child, what about a mentally challenged human getting their hair cut, how would the internet react to a video of a disabled human flailing while getting their hair cut, only to have a knee shove them back in their seat? There'd surely be outrage.

The issue shouldn't be how best to shear a sheep, but how to make the life of these animals who have been selectively bred by humans, for humans, live out their lives in as peaceful and comfortable circumstances as possible.

It's not just sheep. Hens naturally lay maybe 12-15 eggs a year, selective breeding puts their bodies under tremendous hardship (imagine a human female on her period all day, every day, for her whole adult life). Even dogs have been bred resulting in bone, breathinga nd other issues.

There's more animals on the planet now for human consumption, then there ever has been, each one of them will be slaughtered. Yes, the world is never gonna go vegan overnight. As demand decreases, the need to breed more animals decreases too. The alternative to what you're suggesting is to just keep going as we are, which results in a cycle of animals being continually bred and slaughtered. There's plenty that can be done to maintain biodiversity and there will surely be continuous innovations to improve on methods too, especially if more land were to become available.

archer22 wrote: »

Can't understand why some people get so upset about Vegans and Vegetarians expressing their views...Jasus lighten up guys!.
It's not like they are going to grab the greasy auld burger out your pudgy mitts and throw it on the floor.

Anyhow their diet is a perfectly viable alternative for people who only wish to eat to live as nature intended....however I can see how gluttons who live to eat might have problems with it.

Plenty of vegan gluttons out there who don't give a **** about their health and plenty of satiating, satisfying, tasty foods out there for them

wexie

archer22 wrote: »

Well I have never seen anybody eat raw meat and I am sure if you put it on a plate in front of most people the would turn green around the gills either before eating it or after.

oh okay, well if you're sure then I must be wrong about really enjoying carpaccio with a little balsamic dressing and parmesan shavings

must be the reason they serve it in so many restaurants, to turn the customers off their food.

kylith

archer22 wrote: »

No I am not...because if we were we would be able to run like the wind and be happy to eat meat raw.

We don't run like the wind because we are persistence predators; we run prey down. Very few animals have the stamina to run and run like humans do, especially in heat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting#Current_hunter-gatherers), we then developed tools to allow us to kill animals without having to run them down, and then developed farming so that we could do it with as little hassle as possible.

Being able to get enough calories from a totally animal-free diet is a very new phenomenon, and still involves using supplements in order to get all necessary nutrients.

Pa8301

archer22 wrote: »

Well I have never seen anybody eat raw meat and I am sure if you put it on a plate in front of most people they would turn green around the gills either before eating it or after.

Just because there are a few that eat it doesn't make it the rule.

Lets put it this way, there are no Tigers who would get repulsed at the sight of raw meat.

I think if Tigers were able to start fires they might start turning their noses up at raw meat.

wexie

Pa8301 wrote: »

I think if Tigers were able to start fires they might start turning their noses up at raw meat.

I think the producers of Sharknado are working on something like that.

Wheres Me Jumper?

there are so many sick individuals out there.
here's another story to warm the cockles of yer hearth.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fears-of-serial-attacker-after-dogs-shot-and-hit-with-hammer-in-violent-incidents-37376330.html

just makes you wonder how messed up their family/kids must be .....

kylith

archer22 wrote: »

Well I have never seen anybody eat raw meat and I am sure if you put it on a plate in front of most people they would turn green around the gills either before eating it or after.

Just because there are a few that eat it doesn't make it the rule.

Lets put it this way, there are no Tigers who would get repulsed at the sight of raw meat.

I'm not sure I'd count most of Italy, France, Japan, Inuit peoples, large parts of Germany, and every Irish person who has ever tucked into a nice piece of smoked salmon, to name but a few as 'a few that eat it'. Turning green around the gills over the idea of raw meat is cultural more than anything else.

Cooking anything came about because it makes the calories and nutrients easier to digest. In order to get enough calories from a raw vegetable diet you would need to do nothing but eat for about 12 hours a day. If we hadn't taken to eating meat we would never had had the energy to evolve to the level we are now.

You want to talk green around the gills, try eating a raw potato.

cormie wrote: »

There's of course a difference between humans and sheep, but which part of that difference makes it ok to mistreat one and not the other? So instead of a child, what about a mentally challenged human getting their hair cut, how would the internet react to a video of a disabled human flailing while getting their hair cut, only to have a knee shove them back in their seat? There'd surely be outrage.

I saw no 'flailing about', I saw flopping as the animal was moved from one position to the other, and that would have been minimised if the shearer had two arms. Hurting or mistreating the animals is not in a shearer's interest: a sheep that fears shearing is going to be panicky and hard to control, which means that shearing will take longer and decrease productivity. Seriously, have a look at shearing videos: once the sheep is sitting then it is calm, it knows the drill. Not a drop of blood is spilled because, funnily enough, fleeces covered in blood are harder to sell.

cormie wrote: »

The issue shouldn't be how best to shear a sheep, but how to make the life of these animals who have been selectively bred by humans, for humans, live out their lives in as peaceful and comfortable circumstances as possible.

I agree. And I think that that can be achieved within the framework of an omnivorous diet.

As I said, a vegan diet is not a locally sustainable one. A vegetarian or omnivorous diet which focuses on a lower intake of meat than a lot of people currently go for is a much more environmentally friendly one.

archer22

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

there are so many sick individuals out there.
here's another story to warm the cockles of yer hearth.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fears-of-serial-attacker-after-dogs-shot-and-hit-with-hammer-in-violent-incidents-37376330.html

just makes you wonder how messed up their family/kids must be .....

That looks like some cnuts trying to get rid of their own Dogs...whatever about the argument between Vegans and meat eaters...there is one thing for certain, Ireland has some phucking serious Animal cruelty and welfare issues.

Wheres Me Jumper?

mimimcmc wrote: »

This reminds me of Graham Dwyer, didn't he do something similar?
Psychopaths...

currently watching a movie about Jeffrey Dahmer.
he was fascinated by "exploring" the innards of dead animals and would collect roadkill to "examine".

i just hope these people cop themselves on, before their "hobby" mutates into something more sinister.

cormie

kylith wrote: »

You are aware that nature intends us to live as omnivores, right?

We're certainly capable of consuming meat, that doesn't mean it's the ideal food for us though. Have a look into the long term effects of eating animal proteins.

Lady Haywire wrote: »

I get annoyed because they are spreading lies about what farmers do. I've said it before & I'll say it again, they could go around eating trees for all I care, but it's when i get called heartless/murderer/accessory to cattle rape that I draw the line.
I'd much prefer to see an animal brought up locally, eating feed that we can't (substandard grain, grass, etc) and getting killed in an efficient, humane fashion and providing food for many people, than eating soya cr@p/imported foodstuffs with how many air miles behind it.

There has never been a tribe in history which lived as a vegan society. So I wouldn't say as nature intended.

What lies are they spreading? Most people are not good communicators, especially when they get passionate about something, this includes most vegans and they can say these things without realising how they come across and that saying such things isn't going to do any good for the farmer, the vegan or for the animals. That doesn't mean they are spreading lies though. The advised practices for dairy farming and rearing dairy cows, do include how to impregnate the cow. This is done against their will. This is called rape when it happens to a human. You can call it what you want when referring to it in relation to a cow, but the act is still the same.

Why filter your nutrients through an animal when you can go direct to the source? Why feed all that food to an animal who will then only feed so many people, when you could feed more people if they were to eat the food you fed the cow?

How can you humanely kill someone who doesn't want to die?

The longest living populations ever studied ate a primarily vegan diet, look up the seventh day adventist's and the Okinawan's. Also look at how the health of the Okinawan's deteriorated as their animal product intake increased.

You may also want to look at these before making the above statements regarding our history:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFweLhhYNjQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgmfRUwqGy4

c.p.w.g.w

kylith wrote: »

The issue I have is that there's so much vegan propaganda and outright nonsense being pedalled as fact, and I say this as someone whose partner is a non-dairy vegetarian.

Just the other day I had a friend try convince me that farmers were cutting holes in cows' stomachs so that feed could be pumped directly in. A short google showed that it's actually a veterinary thing for cattle who can't digest their food properly. But because this person got their info from PETA (who kill >95% of animals in their 'shelters') the information was very wrong.

Many of the issues are also specifically American, not to say that they are acceptable but deriding the Irish dairy, meat and egg industries over problems in a foreign country is unfair.

Like I said, the nut-milk industry uses huge volumes of water, Peruvians have been priced out of the market for Quinoa leading to, ironically, increased meat consumption by them. Basically, in Ireland at least, it is perfectly possible to have a good, balanced omnivorous or vegetarian diet which is locally sourced and sustainable, but is unfortunately impossible with a vegan diet.

The hole in the stomach thing is nearly entirely in America because they are feed corn

kylith

cormie wrote: »

That doesn't mean they are spreading lies though. The advised practices for dairy farming and rearing dairy cows, do include how to impregnate the cow. This is done against their will. This is called rape when it happens to a human.

Do you think the bull takes her out for a few dates? Gets to know what her favourite music is, her favourite author? Asks her if she is ready to settle down and start a family?

As for vegan neaderthals... were all those spears they found for particularly vicious carrots? Did they bury their dead with meat for, idk, company? Did they build shelters out of the bones of mammoths that they just found lying around?

It's likely that meat consumption amongst our prehistoric ancestors was a lot lower than it is today. However this is more likely to be because of frequent lack of success at hunting than out of preference: plants are a lot easier to chase down than elk, after all.

wexie

kylith wrote: »

As for vegan neaderthals... were all those spears they found for particularly vicious carrots?

Have coffee on my keyboard now