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Child Item

What would you do if your 15-year old daughter......

Snickers Man

Here's a probable scenario. Your 15 year old daughter goes to a party in a friend's house. Some of the kids there are a few years older than her. One of the boys, aged 17, who has had a couple of beers decides that he likes the look of your pretty daughter and inveigles her into a bedroom whereupon he throws her on the bed and tries to pull her clothes off against her will.

She resists and tries to scream, he puts her hand over her mouth and, in the presence of another friend continues what is by any sense of the term a sexual assault. Your daughter manages to break free and escapes from the room.

When she gets home, deeply traumatised, she confides in you as caring and sensitive modern parent(s) what has happened. So what do you do?

a) call the police and make a complaint

b) tell her to get over herself, that boys will be boys, they're only after one thing and what were you thinking about going to a party with older alcohol-swilling teenagers while you were dressed in that getup

c) sympathise with her, tell her it's a regrettable rite of passage and to bide her time. If he ever arises to a position of responsibility we'll take that skeleton out of his closet and rattle it in front of the general public

d) comfort and reassure her, tell her that regardless of youth and inexperience that sort of behaviour is unacceptable for any young man, insist that he is confronted with it in the presence of his parents and/or schoolteachers if appropriate, demand an apology from him and make it clear that he is never to think of indulging in such behaviour again, that no more will be said about it unless it becomes known that he has repeated the deed in which case this will be made known to whoever is the subsequent wronged party?

I would like to think that I would have chosen option d, if my daughter were ever the victim of such an assault and that if my son had ever done such a thing (both are long past their teens now) the parents of the girl in question would have behaved similarly with us. We would have been most grateful to them, and would have made clear to him the severity of what he had done.

I also like to think we would have equipped him with enough cop-on and manners that he would never have thought of doing such a thing in the first place but the world is a dangerous place.

What do any parents here think?

I know, this is probably not a political thread in itself but given what is going on in the US Senate at the moment.....

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Gatling

If it was me personally and my daughter came home and told me this happened to her and who did it ,
I couldn't leave it to the Gardai or courts for any kind of justice here ,

But this is one of those threads dammed if you do and dammed if you don't,

Alcohol should never be used as a cop out of oh at 17 they should have been drinking and she shouldn't have been at a party either

Jentle Grenade

I feel sorry for the OP's kids. What kind of parent puts some stranger who has sexually assaulted their kid ahead of their own kid? Even hypothetically it's quite disturbing.

Mrs OBumble

uncommon_name wrote: »

I wouldn't say its bollocks. A lot of 17 year old's today are like 10 year old from when I grew up, which wasn't that long ago at all.
They don't know if they do it, they may never get a job, it will be on the record forever possibly, they may never be able to travel to certain countries, they may not be able to live in certain areas and it could potentially ruin their own chances of ever having a family of their own.
17 year old children (especially boys) do not think of these things. They don't care about them at that age. Plus you need to remember, 17 year old's shouldn't be drinking alcohol, their bodies aren't ready for it and they probably don't know how to handle it.
I am not saying what he does is acceptable, it isn't in any way at all acceptable and I am not blaming drink on it either. He should be punished for it, but maybe not by the Police for the first time. If it ever happens again then yes, put him behind bars.
Imagine having to have that conversation with your own parents, the girl you done it to and her parents. Imagine how much torture that would be at 17 years old. I think that would be enough to make you never even think about it again.

If a 17 yo is so retarded (and I use that word absolutely deliberately) that they don't realise such behaviour is totally unaccepable, then they shouldn't be leaving the house unaccompanied.

joeguevara

No one would really know what they would do unless they were in that situation. A thread like this will probably bring out people who will say they would kill the guy. Similarly there will be others who say their 15 year old wouldn’t be at parties.

Impossible to know how you would really react. And probably something that the vast majority of people don’t want to think about. Strange thread.

deco nate

Should be in the politics forum, rename what if Kavanagh did this to your daughter?

Church on Tuesday

Well it's simple really, if I had a 15 year old daughter I wouldn't be letting her go to house parties just yet.

Ken.

Mod- Hi folks, We can't think of where to put this thread so we are going to open it for 24 hours to see how it goes. We expect it to turn in to a bitchfest and have to be locked when the time is up. Prove us wrong.

Also, if anyone can think of where to put this thread for a proper discussion pm me or report this post with your suggestion.

Ken.

Mod- I personally don't think this thread is for AH but am waiting to here back from the other mods.

Just posting so ye know its been seen and not ignored by us. Will post back here either way as soon as I can.

johnnyskeleton

Mod note:

Locked pending review.

If the issue is about parenting, that forum might be more suitable. Similar what if topica are discusses in After Hours too.

PM a mod if you feel there is a political dimension to this.

[Deleted User]

vladmydad wrote: »

And let’s hope someone’s son is never falsely accused of such a terrible thing.

Obviously.
But in this scenario the boy is guilty.
As per the OP

James Brown

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Wtf? ??

"Get over yourself "

What sort of bizarre and f*cked up response would that be too say to a child who has been sexually assaulted.

Troll thread

Kelly Ann Conway.
She was on the other day saying she was sexually assaulted. Basically you should get over it and move on, was my read of it.

sbsquarepants

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Sorry but that's BS, how is she vindicated?

She hasn't been.

Any father who's daughter is attacked and his concern is for the attacker is an extremely poor father.

There is no grey area here whasoever - your priority is your own child, not the scumbag who tried to rape her! It's close to as black and white an issue as is imaginable.

Snickers Man

JJayoo wrote: »

Maybe wait till the lad is 18 and kick the crap out off him, pin him down pull his pants down, tell him I'm gonna Fcuk him as he screams for help, let him feel absolutely helpless, let him know how it feels. Then let him get up and tell him he is lucky that I'm not a scumbag like he is.

Either he will have learned a valuable lesson

Or will be absolutely trumatised and go on to live a life of destruction...

Disclaimer: I may have seen this in a film

I think we're straddling (if that's the right word) the knife edge between a nice idea and a good idea.

Triceratops Ballet

Snickers Man wrote:

Well one of the conditions would be a complete apology from the young man and an acknowledgement of realisation that what he did was wrong. It would be a complete vindication of the young woman's freedom to attend a party, to flirt with members of the opposite sex (if that is her inclination), to dress as attractively as she likes and a reaffirmation of the basic concept that whatever ambitions or desires a young man may have, NO means NO. And that forcible detention in a room is not a desirable or acceptable tactic of seduction. As Baron de Charlus has pointed out, many young girls in just such a situation may fear "making a scene" or be embarrassed about telling their parents, let alone the authorities, about such an encounter. Which in the case of Kavanaugh v Ford has led to the festering grievance that has blown up 35 years after the event. Does anyone think this is a good way to deal with such an issue? The time to deal with horny 17 year old boys with boundary issues is when they're 17 year old boys.

Sorry but that's BS, how is she vindicated? She still has been violated and her assailant still only had to make a convincing apology to her and his parents.
The idea that you would say, fine I'll accept an ernest apology if he attempts to rape my daughter, but if he rapes anybody else's after that apology we'll go to the police is disgusting what do you think that says to the daughter in this scenario about how much value her own parents put on her? How do you then tell her with a straight face that if (when she's out if your charge) that if someone treats her like that she should go to the police, or do you want her to come to you every time she might encounter sexual assault and get your take on if the assailant should be reported?

Penn

uncommon_name wrote: »

I would like to think I could go with option "D" as the kid is 17 years old.
He probably doesn't know the consequences of what he is doing. He doesn't realize that if it is reported to police that this will affect him for the rest of his life. If it is dealt with by parents or whoever necessary and you accept the apology and make sure he knows not to do it again then you have taught him a lesson and he shouldn't do it again.
However, if he has done it before or ever does it again, then it should most definitely be reported to the police.

But how do you know? How do you know he hasn't done it before? How will you know if he does it again? It's only if every girl tells their parents, and then each of those parents choose option d), and then the boy's parents tell each of those parents if it's happened before (which they might not as they may fear them then reporting their son to the police).

That's never going to happen. The boy in your example is 17. He knows right from wrong. I would advise and encourage my daughter to go to the police about it. While the decision would ultimately be hers, I would feel it's the right one.

vladmydad

Snickers Man wrote: »

bubblypop wrote: »

Let's hope your daughter is not, ever, the victim of an assault like this.

Well that goes without saying. :rolleyes:

And let’s hope someone’s son is never falsely accused of such a terrible thing.

ash23

Snickers Man wrote: »

I don't have an "agenda" on this. I am a parent. And I have been a 17 year old boy (a long time ago).

What is the best option for all concerned?

He doesn't get a "best option" choice. He gets whatever is handed to him. At 17 he knows right from wrong and the girl involved and her parents should not be even thinking about what is best for him.

JJayoo

Maybe wait till the lad is 18 and kick the crap out off him, pin him down pull his pants down, tell him I'm gonna Fcuk him as he screams for help, let him feel absolutely helpless, let him know how it feels. Then let him get up and tell him he is lucky that I'm not a scumbag like he is.

Either he will have learned a valuable lesson

Or will be absolutely trumatised and go on to live a life of destruction...

Disclaimer: I may have seen this in a film

Snickers Man

bubblypop wrote: »

Let's hope your daughter is not, ever, the victim of an assault like this.

Well that goes without saying. :rolleyes:

sbsquarepants

Snickers Man wrote: »

d) comfort and reassure her, tell her that regardless of youth and inexperience that sort of behaviour is unacceptable for any young man, insist that he is confronted with it in the presence of his parents and/or schoolteachers if appropriate, demand an apology from him and make it clear that he is never to think of indulging in such behaviour again, that no more will be said about it unless it becomes known that he has repeated the deed in which case this will be made known to whoever is the subsequent wronged party?

I would like to think that I would have chosen option d, if my daughter were ever the victim of such an assault and that if my son had ever done such a thing (both are long past their teens now) the parents of the girl in question would have behaved similarly with us. We would have been most grateful to them, and would have made clear to him the severity of what he had done. .....

WTF??

Snickers Man wrote: »

What do any parents here think? .....

I think you're a shít father

[Deleted User]

Snickers Man wrote: »

Well one of the conditions would be a complete apology from the young man and an acknowledgement of realisation that what he did was wrong. It would be a complete vindication of the young woman's freedom to attend a party, to flirt with members of the opposite sex (if that is her inclination), to dress as attractively as she likes and a reaffirmation of the basic concept that whatever ambitions or desires a young man may have, NO means NO.
And that forcible detention in a room is not a desirable or acceptable tactic of seduction.
As Baron de Charlus has pointed out, many young girls in just such a situation may fear "making a scene" or be embarrassed about telling their parents, let alone the authorities, about such an encounter. Which in the case of Kavanaugh v Ford has led to the festering grievance that has blown up 35 years after the event. Does anyone think this is a good way to deal with such an issue?
The time to deal with horny 17 year old boys with boundary issues is when they're 17 year old boys.

No. It's never OK to let crime go by unacknowledged.
You seem to think that it is not an actual sexual assault & that 'horny 17 boys' cannot control themselves.
Let's hope your daughter is not, ever, the victim of an assault like this.

Snickers Man

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Option D might be a good opportunity to teach a young lad a lesson, but what does it teach your daughter in this scenario? That a stranger can put his hands on her in a violent and aggressive manner and suffer no repercussions other than the disappointment of his parents, and maybe some embarrassment, that she can be scared and violated, embarrassed and talked about at school and her own parents want to give the perpetrator a break?
Why would she bother speaking up if it ever happened again? Would any younger sisters she has even bother telling the first time?

Well one of the conditions would be a complete apology from the young man and an acknowledgement of realisation that what he did was wrong. It would be a complete vindication of the young woman's freedom to attend a party, to flirt with members of the opposite sex (if that is her inclination), to dress as attractively as she likes and a reaffirmation of the basic concept that whatever ambitions or desires a young man may have, NO means NO.
And that forcible detention in a room is not a desirable or acceptable tactic of seduction.
As Baron de Charlus has pointed out, many young girls in just such a situation may fear "making a scene" or be embarrassed about telling their parents, let alone the authorities, about such an encounter. Which in the case of Kavanaugh v Ford has led to the festering grievance that has blown up 35 years after the event. Does anyone think this is a good way to deal with such an issue?
The time to deal with horny 17 year old boys with boundary issues is when they're 17 year old boys.

GG66

Snickers Man wrote: »

What do any parents here think?

The fact that (b) is even an option is one reason so few assault victims tell their parents or report it.

(c) is nonsense. I don't believe anyone premeditates that. However if I was raped by someone and saw them rise to one of the most powerful positions in the country where they could adjudicate over what women can do with their bodies I would hope to be brave enough to call him out in front of the nation.

(d) "that no more will be said about it unless it becomes known that he has repeated the deed in which case this will be made known to whoever is the subsequent wronged party"

Not an option. If he assaults rapes again could you ever forgive yourself? and could the victim ever forgive you.

a) is the only option. He's old enough to know it's wrong and on a serious enough level that it warrants intervention of the Gardai. You can choose to press charges or drop them if you feel an apology is enough. He is less likely to reoffend if he has been sufficiently punished and knows the full consequences (if he is a dope in the first place)

vladmydad

Well at least she didn’t wait 36 years to tell anyone, and she didn’t forget how she got there, how she got home, where it was , what year it was, oh and she didn’t say there were 4 witnesses, all of whom denied it ever happened. Or take a polygraph immediately after her grandmothers funeral, which would ruin the effectiveness of it. So that’s good.

lawred2

uncommon_name wrote: »

Not necessarily. If you ruin someones life by putting them on the sex register, cant get a job, cant live in certain areas, cant travel to certain countries and maybe not be able to ever have a family of their own all because of something they done when they were 17. What makes you think they wont do it again?? They have nothing else going for them.... Do all criminal stop being criminals when they come out of prison. Not at all.

So the assailant is the victim?

[Deleted User]

A. definitely

uncommon_name

pinkypinky wrote: »

Hmm, I'm still going with calling the Gardaí. Option D sounds lovely but it doesn't ensure he won't do it again, whereas being hauled into a Garda station (whatever the outcome) probably means he won't.

Not necessarily. If you ruin someones life by putting them on the sex register, cant get a job, cant live in certain areas, cant travel to certain countries and maybe not be able to ever have a family of their own all because of something they done when they were 17. What makes you think they wont do it again?? They have nothing else going for them.... Do all criminal stop being criminals when they come out of prison. Not at all.

Sinus pain

A - every day of the week

mcmoustache

Snickers Man wrote: »

Here's a probable scenario. Your 15 year old daughter goes to a party in a friend's house. Some of the kids there are a few years older than her. One of the boys, aged 17, who has had a couple of beers decides that he likes the look of your pretty daughter and inveigles her into a bedroom whereupon he throws her on the bed and tries to pull her clothes off against her will.

She resists and tries to scream, he puts her hand over her mouth and, in the presence of another friend continues what is by any sense of the term a sexual assault. Your daughter manages to break free and escapes from the room.

When she gets home, deeply traumatised, she confides in you as caring and sensitive modern parent(s) what has happened. So what do you do?

a) call the police and make a complaint

b) tell her to get over herself, that boys will be boys, they're only after one thing and what were you thinking about going to a party with older alcohol-swilling teenagers while you were dressed in that getup

c) sympathise with her, tell her it's a regrettable rite of passage and to bide her time. If he ever arises to a position of responsibility we'll take that skeleton out of his closet and rattle it in front of the general public

d) comfort and reassure her, tell her that regardless of youth and inexperience that sort of behaviour is unacceptable for any young man, insist that he is confronted with it in the presence of his parents and/or schoolteachers if appropriate, demand an apology from him and make it clear that he is never to think of indulging in such behaviour again, that no more will be said about it unless it becomes known that he has repeated the deed in which case this will be made known to whoever is the subsequent wronged party?

I would like to think that I would have chosen option d, if my daughter were ever the victim of such an assault and that if my son had ever done such a thing (both are long past their teens now) the parents of the girl in question would have behaved similarly with us. We would have been most grateful to them, and would have made clear to him the severity of what he had done.

I also like to think we would have equipped him with enough cop-on and manners that he would never have thought of doing such a thing in the first place but the world is a dangerous place.

What do any parents here think?

I know, this is probably not a political thread in itself but given what is going on in the US Senate at the moment.....

It depends. I think that we're missing out on some key info here. Is the guy black or maybe a tinker, for example? Are his parents wealthy? Are his parents wealthy travellers?

uncommon_name

lawred2 wrote: »

that is bollocks

he's a seventeen year old boy not a labrador

I wouldn't say its bollocks. A lot of 17 year old's today are like 10 year old from when I grew up, which wasn't that long ago at all.
They don't know if they do it, they may never get a job, it will be on the record forever possibly, they may never be able to travel to certain countries, they may not be able to live in certain areas and it could potentially ruin their own chances of ever having a family of their own.
17 year old children (especially boys) do not think of these things. They don't care about them at that age. Plus you need to remember, 17 year old's shouldn't be drinking alcohol, their bodies aren't ready for it and they probably don't know how to handle it.
I am not saying what he does is acceptable, it isn't in any way at all acceptable and I am not blaming drink on it either. He should be punished for it, but maybe not by the Police for the first time. If it ever happens again then yes, put him behind bars.
Imagine having to have that conversation with your own parents, the girl you done it to and her parents. Imagine how much torture that would be at 17 years old. I think that would be enough to make you never even think about it again.