Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

eastwest wrote: »

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=2i3aVMKBgFU#menu

Can't see what this strange video has to do with long distance bus vs train? Imagine what could be achieved if the inventors of this strange road tram went a step further and put it on rails.

Muckyboots wrote: »

Serious question. In your mind- what's the difference between a "long-distance bus" and a train?

If you even have to ask that you must be a motorist rather than a public transport user.

Del.Monte wrote: »

Can't see what this strange video has to do with long distance bus vs train? Imagine what could be achieved if the inventors of this strange road tram went a step further and put it on rails.

They would just limit it's usefulness, but I suppose it would make the people who live in the past a lot happier.
In case you missed the point, these trams run on a virtual track, either on roads or on some purpose built roads to avoid bottlenecks. Computerised signalling systems create a free flow that allows the unit to perform as if it had a dedicated track.
The whole point of this development is to improve the efficiency of public transport, not to look back with nostalgia to the victorian era.

eastwest wrote: »

They would just limit it's usefulness, but I suppose it would make the people who live in the past a lot happier.
In case you missed the point, these trams run on a virtual track, either on roads or on some purpose built roads to avoid bottlenecks. Computerised signalling systems create a free flow that allows the unit to perform as if it had a dedicated track.
The whole point of this development is to improve the efficiency of public transport, not to look back with nostalgia to the victorian era.

If you ask me all this nonsense is driven by a coterie of engineers who are obsessed with proving that rail is somehow old fashioned and big business who smell a buck to be made.

Del.Monte wrote: »

If you ask me all this nonsense is driven by a coterie of engineers who are obsessed with proving that rail is somehow old fashioned and big business who smell a buck to be made.

Aye, and them new-fangled horseless carriages will never catch on either.

eastwest wrote: »

Aye, and them new-fangled horseless carriages will never catch on either.

Well, all this nonsense about guided busways and the like is nothing new and has been around for decades without serious adoption by any country.

eastwest wrote: »

They would just limit it's usefulness, but I suppose it would make the people who live in the past a lot happier.
In case you missed the point, these trams run on a virtual track, either on roads or on some purpose built roads to avoid bottlenecks. Computerised signalling systems create a free flow that allows the unit to perform as if it had a dedicated track.
The whole point of this development is to improve the efficiency of public transport, not to look back with nostalgia to the victorian era.

it's a good point, if technology can do away with the rails, then it's done away with a major cost.

Del.Monte wrote: »

Well, all this nonsense about guided busways and the like is nothing new and has been around for decades without serious adoption by any country.

Jaysus, your arguments to anything other than rail is "it'll never catch on"... No wonder you are about to lose Youghal - Middleton to the Lycra brigade..

Del.Monte wrote: »

Well, all this nonsense about guided busways and the like is nothing new and has been around for decades without serious adoption by any country.

Aye, surely. Only insignificant little places like China, nowhere developed like Claremorris.

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/07/failure-china-straddling-bus-no-magic-bullet-traffic-woes

eastwest wrote: »

Aye, surely. Only insignificant little places like China, nowhere developed like Claremorris.

Ah yes, the Chinese a great bunch of people.

Del.Monte wrote: »

If you even have to ask that you must be a motorist rather than a public transport user.

Truthfully, there is little difference today. I normally take intercity buses over the train when travelling between Dublin and Cork/Galway/Belfast.

The modern intercity coaches really are as good if not better then rail. I use to regularly take the train between Cork and Dublin, arguably the best train service in the country, but when Aircoach/GoBE started up, I switched over to them and haven't been on the train to Cork since *

Cheap, just as fast as the train and more comfortable IME. Smoother ride, much quieter, reclining seats, lights out, can actually sleep on them unlike the train.

I've not missed the train at all since swapping over, they really are pretty great.

* The one exception that I take the train still is when heading to Killarney, the train easily beats the coach journey time to there.

The Enterprise is far superior to the Dublin/Cork train.

Del.Monte wrote: »

The Enterprise is far superior to the Dublin/Cork train.

Fair enough, though being pedantic, it is arguably an international service, so saying Cork service is the "best in the country" is technically correct

Though the coach is faster and cheaper to Belfast, so even less reason to take it then there is to Cork. The Enterprise is nothing special either.

end of the road

eastwest wrote: »

They would just limit it's usefulness, but I suppose it would make the people who live in the past a lot happier.
In case you missed the point, these trams run on a virtual track, either on roads or on some purpose built roads to avoid bottlenecks. Computerised signalling systems create a free flow that allows the unit to perform as if it had a dedicated track.
The whole point of this development is to improve the efficiency of public transport, not to look back with nostalgia to the victorian era.

what has living in the past or the victorian era got to do with anything. rail is just as modern as it was in the victorian era and can still offer massive amounts of capacity with less staff, compared to road based forms of transport which will require individual vehicles and (for the moment) a driver per vehicle.
we are not missing the point of these "trams" however unless they operate on purpose built roads only with no integration with other traffic, then they are quite likely going to only be able to offer the capacity of a bendy bus or a bit more. i can't imagine 8 car units based on these operating on a mix of purpose built roads and ordinary roads, trying to avoid traffic which in some cases can't be avoided . to be effective they will need fully segregated roads (which will cost) so that they can offer some sort of capacity.

Muckyboots wrote: »

Jaysus, your arguments to anything other than rail is "it'll never catch on"... No wonder you are about to lose Youghal - Middleton to the Lycra brigade..

the reason we may lose Youghal - Midleton is not because of the opinion of an individual on boards.ie
the reason we may lose Youghal - Midleton is because there was no campaign to reopen it, and neither irish rail or the government made the decisian to continue on when reopening to Midleton.

end of the road wrote: »

rail is just as modern as it was in the victorian era

Well you got that right

All joking aside, old victorian lines that meander through the countryside of one of the least densly populated places in Europe simply don't make sense in our modern world.

In the Victorian era these lines easily beat the fastest mode of transport at the time, the horse and cart. But times moved on and now most of us have cars, wizzing along motorways at 120km/h and coaches full of people doing the same.

No one is interested in these sort of lines any more, not when the door to door times are so much faster by car. That is simply the reality of the situation.

Rail only makes sense where it can seriously beat the road. It isn't good enough for it to be the same or even a little faster and definitely not way slower, it has to be WAY faster and more convenient then the car. And in the context of Ireland that means into and around large, dense cities, whose roads are already bumper to bumper with cars.

Irish "inter city" is in the most part a commuter operation into the larger cities and towns. Serving only those lucky enough to be on their route, for most people a train journey would involve another mode at each end of the trip. Large swathes of the Country have no real rail option and never will have,shame because personally I'd love to see trains whizzing everywhere..

Isambard wrote: »

Large swathes of the Country have no real rail option and never will have,shame because personally I'd love to see trains whizzing everywhere..

It is, but I think it is important to remember that while the size of the rail network has shrunk, the numbers of people taking rail has vastly increased, more are travelling on the smaller rail network today, then ever before.

Passenger numbers on Irish Rail alone (not including Luas) have more then doubled in the past 30 years!!

And quadrupled if you include Luas!

I won't be at all surprised if it doubles again in the next 30 years, never mind Metrolink and Luas extensions.

Rail is very far from dead in Ireland, it is just different.

it would be folly to invest in re-instating rural lines. Any investment should be targeted at improving the lines we actually still have.

I find it odd that the Cork to Dublin line has no more than one train an hour in each direction for much of it's length. Extra stations and a stopping service from Cork to Limerick, connecting to the fast trains, and to branch trains at Mallow and Limerick Junction, would seem a good idea to me.

serfboard

eastwest wrote: »

Aye, surely. Only insignificant little places like China, nowhere developed like Claremorris.

You don't have to look as far as China - our neighbours up the road in Belfast have just implemented something similar but simpler.

https://twitter.com/RailEquality
Sean Canney.

Muckyboots wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RailEquality
Sean Canney.

If Sean Canney was living up.to his surname, he'd be begging Leo for the junior vacancy, and extracting a commitment to have the greenway built in a year. That way, when the election comes he'd be able to show work starting and would be able to refute the claims he had done nothing for the constituency since he was elected.
If he doesn't do that, he'll be shortly known as 'former politician Sean canney'.

serfboard

Muckyboots wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RailEquality
Sean Canney.

Ah Jaysus, that's great stuff that Twitter page - totally fantasy.

Here's the latest one:

WOT wrote:

Stuck in a 5 mile tailback entering #Galway again today, when I could be sitting on the train reading my paper!

Which begs two questions:

1. If you were going into the city centre, why didn't you get off at the Oranmore junction (no queue) and drive to the free park and ride in Oranmore? That way you could have still got on a train to Galway.

2. If you weren't going into the city centre, tell me how the train would have got you to where you were going?

serfboard wrote: »

Ah Jaysus, that's great stuff that Twitter page - totally fantasy.

Here's the latest one:Which begs two questions:

1. If you were going into the city centre, why didn't you get off at the Oranmore junction (no queue) and drive to the free park and ride in Oranmore? That way you could have still got on a train to Galway.

2. If you weren't going into the city centre, tell me how the train would have got you to where you were going?

Can I add to your questions? 3. Had Burke's Buses taken that day off?

just goes to show many of those wanting a train service from Tuam would probably still drive if they got one.

end of the road

Muckyboots wrote: »

Can I add to your questions? 3. Had Burke's Buses taken that day off?

it wouldn't matter whether Burke's Buses had or hadn't taken a day off as this individual wouldn't have any intention of becoming a customer of theirs.

[Deleted User]

The feasibility study is going ahead!

Urgent Update!

Just this evening, Kevin Kelly, the Acting Co. Manager for Galway issued a letter to all 39 Councillors. It confirms that an application for funds for our Quiet Man Greenway feasibility study will be made before the 30th of November. Thks to Cllr. Joe Byrne for forwarding the relevant extract. Well done team! This is the first in a number of milestones to the day we officially open our greenway. Sincere thanks to Kevin Kelly, his officials and all of our local representatives who believe in what we’re trying to do here.

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[Deleted User] wrote: »

The feasibility study is going ahead!

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'A' feasibility study is going ahead.
Is this the greenway on the old railway alignment? It isn't too clear from the letter.

what_traffic

eastwest wrote: »

'A' feasibility study is going ahead.
Is this the greenway on the old railway alignment? It isn't too clear from the letter.

Yes for the old alignment, looks like the Council Executive are basically saying we took all the motions and then decided what "we" the real power brokers in the Council want to do and we have also assigned somebody to work full time on the Greenways.
They see plenty of money available - more money announced in the recent budget as well.
I guess they are not going to stop and stare the gift horse in the mouth for months on end past the 30th Nov deadline.