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Child Item

'God hates me' family devastated as church makes changes to first communion

sideswipe

I think this this story is going to blow up in the media today. Kids told to come to mass anytime in May/June for holy communion robbing families of a big day out-

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/god-hates-me-childs-distress-over-heartbreaking-ridiculous-church-idea-37355461.html

Personally think it's the best idea the church has come up with in a while!

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super_furry

If you want to have a party for your kid, have a party for your kid. Tying it up in some religious nonsense, especially if you don't adhere to or follow that religion in daft.

wexie

super_furry wrote: »

If you want to have a party for your kid, have a party for your kid. Tying it up in some religious nonsense, especially if you don't adhere to or follow that religion in daft.

'yeah but, yeah but.....everybody else is doing it?!'

:rolleyes:

sbsquarepants

Personally - I think it's a fantastic idea.

I rarely find myself agreeing with the church on anything however, so I'm off to get myself checked for concussion:D

_Brian

Hitman3000 wrote: »

So you want to be part of the club but don't want to follow all the rules? AFAIK communion, is one of the 5 sacraments of the RCC church. All of which except the last requires preparation from either the parents or the recipients. In the case of communion/ confirmation it's both, so if it means so much parents should have no problem attending communion any day that suits them. Parties to gather the money can also be scheduled for when it suits. As I said hypocrites.

Religion, belief or spirituality is a personal thing and not black and white, either being one thing or another, I think that is a childish notion.

I’ve no problem with tue idea of communion being separated into days that suit rather than all at once, what difference. Our friends parish does that and groups of friends agree to go on certain sundays - seems to work fine.

We do what suits us, if you think that’s hypocritical, grand, it’s no odds what you think.

One eyed Jack

Hitman3000 wrote: »

So you want to be part of the club but don't want to follow all the rules? AFAIK communion, is one of the 5 sacraments of the RCC church. All of which except the last requires preparation from either the parents or the recipients. In the case of communion/ confirmation it's both, so if it means so much parents should have no problem attending communion any day that suits them. Parties to gather the money can also be scheduled for when it suits. As I said hypocrites.

The times in a child’s life when Communion and Confirmation take place according to the Catholic Church are very much tied in with coming-of-age rituals from a historical perspective. It was the Church tied itself in with already established traditions and rituals rather than the other way round, before you start calling anyone hypocrites. The Church wanted to be part of society, and subsumed the already established rituals of that society into their “club”, as you put it.

Apart from any of that, the rules have changed many, many times throughout history and culture, and these changes have been driven by society, so the idea of calling people who break with tradition “hypocrites”, rather than the Church which moulded itself around traditions and rituals that were already established in that society, is a bit rich.

Hitman3000

_Brian wrote:

Religion, belief or spirituality is a personal thing and not black and white, either being one thing or another, I think that is a childish notion.

If you wish to be part of a club/cult/religion they're are rules. I wouldn't expect anyone to care about what a randomers on the net says. However hypocritical behaviour makes one a hypocrite whether you accept that or not is irrelevant it's fact. Take care.

sbsquarepants

One eyed Jack wrote: »

A child coming out with the idea that God hates them is odd.
.

Anyone arriving at the conclusion that god doesn't hate them is odd if you ask me!

Greentree_uk

its about time they scrapped it. Its a big con. and costs families a fortune. No one goes to church anyway.

Canis Lupus

That's too funny. The priest has in essence taken away the dress up part of the day and all of a sudden people have completely forgotten the point of it in the first place. Gotten love christianity in Ireland. It's a total joke.

Rubberchikken

They could still have their big day just go to the mass and receive communion first.
I dont get the connection between hair loss communion and God. Doubtful he's to blame.

crusier

In fairness the only time the church see most of these parents is at these piss up events. The parents will no longer be able to tap the social welfare officer for drink money, it's a scandal Joe!

Hitman3000

One eyed Jack wrote:

Apart from any of that, the rules have changed many, many times throughout history and culture, and these changes have been driven by society, so the idea of calling people who break with tradition â€œhypocritesâ€, rather than the Church which moulded itself around traditions and rituals that were already established in that society, is a bit rich.

You need to look up the rules the church has for communion and the programme that accompanies it. I've heard of parents in my area refuse to participate in the programme but still wanted little Johnny or Mary to have their big day. Always fun when the priest (he's old school ) set them straight.
I have problem calling anyone a hypocrite who behaves as such . Last I heard the RCC was not a la carte. I don't follow it but I know it has its rules and traditions which if you claim to be a member the onus is on you to adhere to them.

Mrs OBumble

super_furry wrote: »

If you want to have a party for your kid, have a party for your kid. Tying it up in some religious nonsense, especially if you don't adhere to or follow that religion in daft.

Yeah, but how is everyone else in the neighbourhood supposed to know which party to hand over the €50 for?

That's what this is all about, really.

_Brian

Hitman3000 wrote: »

If you wish to be part of a club/cult/religion they're are rules. I wouldn't expect anyone to care about what a randomers on the net says. However hypocritical behaviour makes one a hypocrite whether you accept that or not is irrelevant it's fact. Take care.

You getting it wrong, I don’t want to be part of anything, we do our own thing which overlaps with Christian beliefs and traditions in places, that’s it and nothing else.

Bullocks

Rubberchikken wrote: »

They could still have their big day just go to the mass and receive communion first.
I dont get the connection between hair loss communion and God. Doubtful he's to blame.

Yeah someone would want to sit that girl down and explain that God has no connection with alopecia. What kind of parents would let their kids to be interviewed saying they think God hates them. More in the mothers line to talk a bit of sense to the child instead of let her be quoted online.
I think this come as you please is a great job to get the communion.

sbsquarepants

Greentree_uk wrote: »

its about time they scrapped it. Its a big con. and costs families a fortune. No one goes to church anyway.

They do on communion day! And it's not the church costing the fortune - it's the mini wedding dress, the limo's , the bouncy castles, venue hire + catering all the bolloxology that goes with a wedding communion.
People cost themselves a fortune, the church part is free!

This is my second time today to support the church - I must have a brain tumor!

Hitman3000

_Brian wrote:

You getting it wrong, I donâ€™t want to be part of anything, we do our own thing which overlaps with Christian beliefs and traditions in places, thatâ€™s it and nothing else.

You admitted that your kids attended for communion so they could have their day. It's a church ritual that parents and childrenare required to prepare for which includes regular mass attendence. You don't believe you are a hypocrite? That's fine I always tell people though, when in a deep hole is it advisable to keep digging?

_Brian

Hitman3000 wrote: »

You need to look up the rules the church has for communion and the programme that accompanies it. I've heard of parents in my area refuse to participate in the programme but still wanted little Johnny or Mary to have their big day. Always fun when the priest (he's old school ) set them straight.
I have problem calling anyone a hypocrite who behaves as such . Last I heard the RCC was not a la carte. I don't follow it but I know it has its rules and traditions which if you claim to be a member the onus is on you to adhere to them.

I fail to understand this “your eother in or your out” notion. That died in the 50’s

Irony above irony here is that my experience is that the church are happy with people being a la carte with it, yet proclaimed non believers here say it’s unacceptable and hypocritical. Go figure.

suicide_circus

sentient_6 wrote: »

How does this scutter get past an editor? Is is the Independent even bothering anymore?

The most disturbing aspect of this story is that it was published in a national broadsheet.

yabadabado

_Brian wrote: »

Why is it odd.
Kids love a big day out where they are the centre of attention.

Both ours got communion and we had family round to the house afterwards, we cooked ourselves and yes we had a bouncy castle for the kids, it was a great celebration of my daughters reaching this stage in their life and we don’t regret it a bit. Since we did tue catering ourselves and there was no alcohol it wasn’t expensive at all.
We have a very a la carte opinion on religion and our kids would be the same, We rarely attend mass. Our opinion is it’s a sort of coming of age event worth celebrating, no more ridiculous that adults celebrating their 40th or 50th birthdays.

Hahahahahahaha

That's ****ing gas Brian,you really should do a nationwide tour with this material.

Grandeeod

She's got her way. All classes will make their communion on the same day.

_Brian

Hitman3000 wrote: »

You admitted that your kids attended for communion so they could have their day. It's a church ritual that parents and childrenare required to prepare for which includes regular mass attendence. You don't believe you are a hypocrite? That's fine I always tell people though, when in a deep hole is it advisable to keep digging?

I really don’t care if you understand my position or not.
I said it’s as much a coming of age celebration as anything, I didn’t say it was only one or the other. It has a merit to our particular leaning on faith, I’ve no interest in explaining that to you, if our church has no problem with it, how come you seem to.

One eyed Jack

Hitman3000 wrote: »

You need to look up the rules the church has for communion and the programme that accompanies it. I've heard of parents in my area refuse to participate in the programme but still wanted little Johnny or Mary to have their big day. Always fun when the priest (he's old school ) set them straight.

I’m very familiar with them already, which is why I pointed out to you that the Church moulds itself to the society in which it resides and wants to promote itself in, rather than the other way round. The RCC in Ireland is a very different beast to the RCC in Uganda for example.

I have problem calling anyone a hypocrite who behaves as such.

You fit right in with what the Church in Ireland once was then, very much the whole “do as I say, not as I do” thing going on, which pretty much led to it’s decreasing popularity when people copped to what they were at and thought “bollocks to that idea!”

Last I heard the RCC was not a la carte.

You may be confusing the RCC Canon Law with Islamic Sharia Law.

I don't follow it but I know it has its rules and traditions which if you claim to be a member the onus is on you to adhere to them.

Bollocks to that :pac:

I don’t just claim to be a member of the RCC btw, I am a member, and one of the core teachings of the RCC is forgiveness for our failings, so that even if you aren’t adhering to the teachings and doctrine and laws of the Church, you’re still a member, even if you are excommunicated - still a member.

Personally, I think you need to revisit your whole take on Catholicism and the RCC because one of it’s core teachings is showing understanding rather than condemnation, something that was long forgotten by the Clergy in Ireland which has led to a disenfranchised congregation, and is one of the reasons why there is such a chasm between the ordinary members of the Church and the Hierarchy. The Church needs to evolve again if it is to keep in step with Irish society, and that’s not going to happen if it’s held back by appeals to traditions which are falling out of practice in Irish society,

Hitman3000

_Brian wrote:

Irony above irony here is that my experience is that the church are happy with people being a la carte with it, yet proclaimed non believers here say itâ€™s unacceptable and hypocritical. Go figure.

Look you don't need to defend hypocrisy to me. I just find the whole thing hilarious. They don't want to go to mass or take part in the church but want the big day. I won't repeat the word but it fits. I'll park it there.

meeeeh

I find the outrage a bit ridiculous but why are people so obsessed with hypocrisy? We are all hypocritical, at least those of us who function in real world. What's the problem?

Hitman3000

One eyed Jack wrote:

Bollocks to that

This is what I think is the appropriate reply to your rant and it's not even my comment but fits quite well.

Mountainsandh

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The part I find more concerning about that article tbh is this bit -

"My son Cathal lost his hair from alopecia last year and just the other day I heard my daughter say: 'God hates me and Cathal. He took his hair and now I can't even make my communion with my class'.
"To hear her say this was very heartbreaking and it just goes to show how much it's affecting her."

That’s just odd.

Bullocks wrote: »

Yeah someone would want to sit that girl down and explain that God has no connection with alopecia. What kind of parents would let their kids to be interviewed saying they think God hates them. More in the mothers line to talk a bit of sense to the child instead of let her be quoted online.
I think this come as you please is a great job to get the communion.

Nah. It's just emotional blackmail. It's not odd, although it is novel to use it indirectly via media, so that it reaches a larger audience in the wider public (rather than just their own community).

There is a section of people who have learned to be very manipulative, they're usually the ones with all the perks, all the allowances for this and that and the other. They have chosen to learn just that one skill, because it worked I guess.
It reminds me of that clip that was posted here with a blonde woman in a shop in Dublin, she had some kind of relationship to the owner of the shop and went in and trashed the place, all the while spouting all sorts of manipulative stuff.

These people will declare that their life is a misery, and that every bit of that misery is caused by others. They are the victim of ... everyone else really. A great way to completely bypass personal responsibility.

The daughter has either got that skill to a T and she really said that, or the mother is putting words in her mouth, demonstrating how to do it.

It's likely to be the Mum teaching both kids, so she included the boy, he's got something to leverage for the blackmail.

I have had to deal with many people like that (usually the children) over the years, it's so draining. Even when you try and ignore it, it nearly turns to harassment, like the blonde one in that other thread.

I think it's a brilliant idea to do it any Mass day, kudos to that priest.

One eyed Jack

Hitman3000 wrote: »

This is what I think is the appropriate reply to your rant and it's not even my comment but fits quite well.

That’s the spirit!

Apiarist

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Anyone arriving at the conclusion that god doesn't hate them is odd if you ask me!

Exactly. Adam and Eve had sinned, so now all people are paying the price.

_Brian wrote: »

Why is it odd.
Kids love a big day out where they are the centre of attention.
...
We have a very a la carte opinion on religion and our kids would be the same,...

This is a very healthy attitude. I think the church should drop the pretense of holiness and become an entertainment organization catering for traditions it took over (Yule / aka Christmas, Easter, coming of age ceremonies etc.).

indioblack

KevinCavan wrote: »

I’d love to know what people spend on these mini-weddings, with bouncy castles, caterers and ice-cream vans being ordered for them.I think they put huge pressure on parents financially nowadays with the sky high expectations.

Be fair. Religious ceremonies cost money.
Nothing like a bouncy castle to get you into heaven.