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Travellers want a state apology

RobertKK

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/when-will-there-be-an-official-apology-to-the-traveller-community-1.3634335?mode=amp

Currently, there is a global predilection for apologies to indigenous people and minority ethnic groups. Apartheid in South Africa “officially” ended in 1994. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission quickly followed in 1995. The hearings started in 1999. Apologies were offered by the Canadian and Australian governments in 2008 to the indigenous people of their countries. An apology was also offered in 2017 by the Crown to the Parihaka people of New Zealand.

When will there be an official apology to the Traveller community for what was done to us?

I read this Irish Times article and it is very one sided from a Traveller.
Ok she speaks of hurt and discrimination suffered by Travellers, but not once deals with other real stuff like the criminality within the Traveller community.
I never got an apology from the Travellers who tried to steal from me by being threatening and demanding money and when I said I would call the Guards if they didn’t leave me alone, I got told I should kill myself by hanging myself off a bridge.
I had tried to be the good person to them originally and gave them work, in the article they talk about 82% unemployment. When there is a lack of trust it does lead to consequences.
The settled community is not looking for Travellers to go uneducated, to get an inferior health service and there is a housing crisis so it is not like any section of society is getting preferential treatment.

An apology to the Traveller community will do nothing for society, people may have a negative view of Travellers but for a lot of people it is not a view made for the sake of it but from different personal experiences.
If Travellers don’t want to address these problems then an apology by the state won’t change anything. If Travellers want people to have a better view of them they need to work to start the change in their own community. The ‘I am a victim, give me an apology’ will not wash with most of the public.
The article doesn’t address the self made problems the Traveller community in Ireland created for themselves.
I have heard old people talk positively of what Travellers did in past times when they travelled around and did certain jobs for farmers.
Now it is very different. There is a real fear, I know myself if Travellers were to arrive on my farm I would be anxious and it wouldn’t be from just the one experience but from multiple experiences.
I don’t want to feel like this but one can’t be happy clappy and ignore realities and be yeah ‘they deserve a state apology’, when they do nothing to change their own perception but blame others for their predicament.

One can read the Traveller argument in the article for the pro-apology argument.

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Comments

Iwouldinmesack

Well if they get one, theres no reason why the Deaf community shouldnt get an apology as we were and continue to be treated badly by the State. They even acknowleged we suffered and continue to suffer from 'extreme marginalisation' in 2016 yet have done sfa to rectify this even though they recognised our language as an official state language in 2017.

What about an apology for normalisation, oralism (linguistic supression regarding the banning of using Irish Sign Language), segretation, oppression, the neglect and the physical and sexual abuse of Deaf people in Ireland? Noone really knows that this happened and its all swept under the carpet.

Borderfox

a written apology?

TheValeyard

If they get money out of this, we should all identify as travellers.

Hitman3000

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote:

If they get money out of this, we should all identify as travellers.

Do you travel to work?

ancapailldorcha

wexie wrote: »

I guess the ongoing abuse isn't as harmful as whatever historic abuse.

My guess is that standing up for traveler women would also mean speaking out against traveler men and traveler culture in general and acknowledging that perhaps all isn't kosher there.

And of course that couldn't possibly be done publicly

I suspect that but in the meantime a member of the Women's Council of Ireland is cheerfully ignoring a suppression of the rights of traveller women and girls in an oppressive patriarchal culture right on her own doorstep. It begs the question of what is the point of the council if it is happy to ignore such abuses.

BrokenArrows

wexie wrote: »

I guess the ongoing abuse isn't as harmful as whatever historic abuse.

My guess is that standing up for traveler women would also mean speaking out against traveler men and traveler culture in general and acknowledging that perhaps all isn't kosher there.

And of course that couldn't possibly be done publicly

You are totally correct. They never look internally to solve problems. Its always external.

1. Education - They need to look internally to make sure all children are educated fully at the very least to leaving cert level. They receive a huge amount of financial help and this should be a minimum. However currently dropping out is accepted if not encouraged.

2. Crime - We always hear that "we're not all bad", but crime is accepted in their culture. Drug dealing, theft etc. They all live in close proximity to each other and know exactly whats going on. If they accept crime within their community then they are almost as guilty as those committing it. If i knew my neighbor was a criminal then i would report them. That wont happen in their community.

3. Violence - They use violence in all aspects of their lives. Domestically, criminally and as a way to solve community disputes. They need to sort this out if they ever want to be accepted and not feared.

Gravelly

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

what is the point of the council

piplip87

Why is it the left and the liberals stand up for those who agree with the right ?

Travellers are by definition deeply religious so abortion, gay marriage, women's rights to work and education are all big no no's to them.

Arranged marriage still exists, why instead of looking for apologies that are not needed they tackle the inequalities in their own society first.

Boom_Bap

Please accept this state apology.

sbsquarepants

Turnipman wrote: »

"
So presumably, in Ms. McDonagh's opinion, the nits should have been allowed to remain where they were, free to increase and multiply at will, and to sleep in Garda stations whenever they felt the urge?

Nits need forever homes too you know.

You're a bleeding nitist, that's what you are:mad:

PlaneSpeeking

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Nits need forever homes too you know.

You're a bleeding nitist, that's what you are:mad:

#NitLivesMatter

Agricola

Was in a Toyota dealership last week getting an airbag recall done on my mother's 10 year old Yaris.

A young traveller woman walks in, head to toe in ripped denim, and heads over to the brochures. She was a dead ringer for Vicky Pollard from Little Britain. The salesman leaps out from behind his desk like the Pope had just walked in to peruse the latest models. He wasn't half as interested in me 5 minutes beforehand!
She asks him had he got the new model Land Cruiser to view, so he grabs a set of keys and escorts her outside to the forecourt! Another happy customer in the making!

VonZan

Travellers; always the victims, never the cause. My heart bleeds for them.....

B-D-P--

We are nearing 100 votes to no, and 0 votes to yes.

Yet still the gov will buckle..

When it comes to homeless they dont care because unless you carry a vote you are nothing to them...
When it comes to these parasites, they actually do something....

I dont get it, why dont they ignore them as the do the rest of irelands problems?

For the record and before the snowflakes, Im not saying ignoring the homeless is a good thing. I'm saying thats what they are doing

VinLieger

Agricola wrote: »

Was in a Toyota dealership last week getting an airbag recall done on my mother's 10 year old Yaris.

A young traveller woman walks in, head to toe in ripped denim, and heads over to the brochures. She was a dead ringer for Vicky Pollard from Little Britain. The salesman leaps out from behind his desk like the Pope had just walked in to peruse the latest models. He wasn't half as interested in me 5 minutes beforehand!
She asks him had he got the new model Land Cruiser to view, so he grabs a set of keys and escorts her outside to the forecourt! Another happy customer in the making!

He knows a cash sale when he sees it

Kristopherus

VonZan wrote: »

Travellers; always the victims, never the cause. My heart bleeds for them.....

As the book title says , they are a"blot on the landscape":D

Grayson

Iwouldinmesack wrote: »

Well if they get one, theres no reason why the Deaf community shouldnt get an apology as we were and continue to be treated badly by the State. They even acknowleged we suffered and continue to suffer from 'extreme marginalisation' in 2016 yet have done sfa to rectify this even though they recognised our language as an official state language in 2017.

What about an apology for normalisation, oralism (the banning of Irish Sign Language), segretation, the neglect and the physical and sexual abuse of Deaf people in Ireland? Swept under the carpet as usual.

That's a good point. I hadn't heard about most of that and I'd agree.

If there was discrimination against travellers by the state they should get an apology. The state needs to treat every individual with the exact same level of respect. If there was a state wide policy of treating a traveller differently because they were a traveller that's wrong.

Now I know someone will reply and point out the criminality within the traveller community and they're right to point that out. My point is that when they break the law they should be treated like any other citizen who breaks the law. No more and no less. If the state treated them differently then that's wrong and they should get an apology.

(btw, notice the IF that I put in. I honestly don't know enough about policies towards travellers to state that they do or don't deserve an apology. I'd like to see a proper study that shows this stuff. That's why I said "if")

Gimme A Pound

piplip87 wrote: »

Why is it the left and the liberals stand up for those who agree with the right ?

Travellers are by definition deeply religious so abortion, gay marriage, women's rights to work and education are all big no no's to them.

Arranged marriage still exists, why instead of looking for apologies that are not needed they tackle the inequalities in their own society first.

Oh you know, it's not really their fault - it's the patriarchy causing them to behave in this way, the oppressed being the oppressors etc.

Renegade Mechanic

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I suspect that but in the meantime a member of the Women's Council of Ireland is cheerfully ignoring a suppression of the rights of traveller women and girls in an oppressive patriarchal culture right on her own doorstep. It begs the question of what is the point of the council if it is happy to ignore such abuses.

They're paid to "help victims". If travellers aren't victims, they don't get paid. It's not actually about improving their standing.

NasserShammaz

So does every victim of their violence , fraud , intimidation ...............
What a pile of horsesh#t.

Wibbs

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Well apparently a while back they were recognised as having a unique genetic history compared to the rest of the population and were recognised as an "ethnic minority".

Somewhat similar to the Roma gipsys are different genetically than to Romanians.

It was near total ballsology BA. As Nekarsulm said any "difference" was down to generations of intermarriage where certain standard "Irish/European" genes become more common in the group. You find these kinda markers in any somewhat culturally or geographically isolated group. A large chunk of men with Donegal heritage and often linked to their family name(O'Donnell being one) share a particular gene. This doesn't make them an "ethnic minority".

Wibbs

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

They're paid to "help victims". If travellers aren't victims, they don't get paid. It's not actually about improving their standing.

+1. Just another aspect of the Church of the Holy Victimhood all too common of late.

irishproduce

Can we all just agree that travellers are very undesirable but must be tolerated in the name of ... I don't know.
Criminality is rampant among the group, in fact, without travellers, it is very likely crime rates and fear would drop considerably. Of course we are not allowed to say they are all like that, and they probably aren't but still, undesirable and all that. Would you like them living next door to you?
Apology my hole

suicide_circus

the state could certainly do with apologising to a few groups in society. travellers are not one of those groups.

this is just another piece of victim olympics bandwagoning in which every misfortune which befalls a group is automatically the fault of the wider society.

Travellers, dry the crocodile tears, take some responsibility, get your own f*cking house in order and stop this campaign to emphasise your differences with the rest of the irish people. all you are archiving is further ostracisation and further state dependence.

irishproduce

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Admittedly, it has been a long time since I was resident in Ireland but I recall there being a lot of state support for travellers. Their experience is nothing like that of the native people's of pre-colonial Australia and New Zealand, never mind apartheid. Those comparisons are frankly disgusting and I would have expected better from the Irish Times.

While I would agree with you that comparing the struggles of genuine put upon, with the travellers is wrong, I'll just point out the article is written by a traveller and not the paper.

punisher5112

Will they ever go flock off.

State apology, when are they going to apologise for all the pain and suffering they have caused decent hard working people.

whiskeyman

Wait for it.....

Traveller-Gate!

[Deleted User]

RobertKK wrote:

I read this Irish Times article and it is very one sided from a Traveller. Ok she speaks of hurt and discrimination suffered by Travellers, but not once deals with other real stuff like the criminality within the Traveller community. I never got an apology from the Travellers who tried to steal from me by being threatening and demanding money and when I said I would call the Guards if they didnâ€™t leave me alone, I got told I should kill myself by hanging myself off a bridge. I had tried to be the good person to them originally and gave them work, in the article they talk about 82% unemployment. When there is a lack of trust it does lead to consequences. The settled community is not looking for Travellers to go uneducated, to get an inferior health service and there is a housing crisis so it is not like any section of society is getting preferential treatment.

Here's the thing, all traveller's have been discriminated against yet not all travellers are involved in crime, dole sponging etc

sexmag

whiskeyman wrote: »

Wait for it.....

Traveller-Gate!

Well they did steal mine so I guess it could be considered a traveller-gate now

Sephiroth_dude

They should be apologizing for all the scumbag behaviour and hassle they've caused people down through the years.