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Child Item

The Kerry Babies Case

irishguitarlad

What do you think of it? As the son of an Abbeydorney woman I take an interest in it as I kept on hearing about it growing up. I reckon the gardaí were covering up for someone when they blamed Joanna Hayes. Anyways, what's your opinion?

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Seth Brundle

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

I for one beleive it should be left alone. There is a innocent victim of this whole farce who was haranged and pillaried by the corrupt and vindictive forces of this state.
I can't help but be very cynical of the motives of reopening of this case now, maybe first investigate how the law made such a monumental and disgusting **** up of the original investigation.

No desire to get justice for baby John and put a murderer behind bars?

strandroad

paw patrol wrote: »

I was listening to newstalk this evening, Yates was talking to a guy from radio Kerry about the developments. Radio Kerry man was saying that the station had callers saying that the matter should be left in the past.

what type of fcuker thinks that the murder (by stabbing ) of a new baby should be left in the past? What horrible to heard that was a strong sentiment in the area.
The culture of keeping stuff under the carpet should be left in the past.

If you look at the Dalkey House of Horrors, it was allegedly the grandmother who murdered the baby. The mother was a child herself and an innocent victim.
Perhaps local people know who was responsible and that they are long dead.

Electric Sheep

JupiterKid wrote: »

I remenber this case well as a young child. It dominated the news for weeks. Ireland was a different country then.

Joanne Hayes was effectively fitted up the Gardai and it was despicable. The killer of the newborn baby will in all liklihood never be brought to justice.

It has similarities to the Dalkey House of Horrors baby kilking of 1973, when two young boys found the body of a newborn baby in a plastic bag in Dun Laoghaire. No-one was ever brought to justice over that case either.

What is certain is that somebody in West Kerry knows the truth and is shielding a murderer.

At least one person knows, but I suspect more than one person was involved.

I can't imagine what it has been like living with a secret like that all these years, never knowing if one day you would get that knock at the door that means you have been found out.

Atoms for Peace

paw patrol wrote: »

the mother is at present unknown, she could be the killer .
we should hold off on the "poor mother" speils.

I was listening to newstalk this evening, Yates was talking to a guy from radio Kerry about the developments. Radio Kerry man was saying that the station had callers saying that the matter should be left in the past.

what type of fcuker thinks that the murder (by stabbing ) of a new baby should be left in the past? What horrible to heard that was a strong sentiment in the area.
The culture of keeping stuff under the carpet should be left in the past.

I for one beleive it should be left alone. There is a innocent victim of this whole farce who was haranged and pillaried by the corrupt and vindictive forces of this state.
I can't help but be very cynical of the motives of reopening of this case now, maybe first investigate how the law made such a monumental and disgusting **** up of the original investigation.

JupiterKid

I remenber this case well as a young child. It dominated the news for weeks. Ireland was a different country then.

Joanne Hayes was effectively fitted up the Gardai and it was despicable. The killer of the newborn baby will in all liklihood never be brought to justice.

It has similarities to the Dalkey House of Horrors baby killing of 1973, when two young boys found the body of a newborn baby in a plastic bag in Dun Laoghaire. No-one was ever brought to justice over that case either.

What is certain is that somebody in West Kerry knows the truth and is shielding a murderer.

Pawwed Rig

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Could a mother really bring herself to stab her tiny baby multiple times to death no matter how scared or ashamed she was?

Of course. Why would they be different to anyone else?

paw patrol

juno10353 wrote: »

Poor baby and poor mother, such a sad case.

the mother is at present unknown, she could be the killer .
we should hold off on the "poor mother" speils.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Great to hear - Baby John gets forgotten a lot of the time but he deserves justice.

I can’t imagine the kind of person you’d have to be to think stabbing a three day old baby to death is ok.

I was listening to newstalk this evening, Yates was talking to a guy from radio Kerry about the developments. Radio Kerry man was saying that the station had callers saying that the matter should be left in the past.

what type of fcuker thinks that the murder (by stabbing ) of a new baby should be left in the past? What horrible to heard that was a strong sentiment in the area.
The culture of keeping stuff under the carpet should be left in the past.

AudreyHepburn

goat2 wrote: »

There would have been little or nothing going on, no turism at that time back then, I do think they did have babies DNA , and hopefully this will lead them to his relatives, that is if they are testing others against it, could a woman manage having and disposing a baby on her own, I don't know

Could a mother really bring herself to stab her tiny baby multiple times to death no matter how scared or ashamed she was?

I’m inclined to think it was a family member that did personally.

AudreyHepburn

goat2 wrote: »

Today in the news, they are now making door to door enquiries, maybe someone that knew something and were afraid to reveal, could bring this to a conclusion, also they might have a better idea where the little baby was put in the sea, with advancement of science, and DNA they could be close to the truth in the area it happened in,
I cannot think what time of the year it happened, but that area would have tourists mainly for the july, august time of year back then,

Great to hear - Baby John gets forgotten a lot of the time but he deserves justice.

I can’t imagine the kind of person you’d have to be to think stabbing a three day old baby to death is ok.

goat2

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

You're forgetting or ignoring the fact that they're trying to bring to justice the person or persons who stabbed a five day old baby to death.

The person that stabbed that baby is a Murderer

goat2

deisemum wrote: »

It was April 1984, baby John was found the day before my youngest sister was born.

There would have been little or nothing going on, no turism at that time back then, I do think they did have babies DNA , and hopefully this will lead them to his relatives, that is if they are testing others against it, could a woman manage having and disposing a baby on her own, I don't know

[Deleted User]

Do you reckon they’ll ask all the islanders to provide a sample for DNA analysis? Could be a quick way to rule in or out particular families?
As it is, they’ve probably located the DNA of baby John to small sections of the Kerry community.

deisemum

goat2 wrote: »

I cannot think what time of the year it happened, but that area would have tourists mainly for the july, august time of year back then,

It was April 1984, baby John was found the day before my youngest sister was born.

Ipso

No specific intelligence, so like the original investigation.

juno10353

Poor baby and poor mother, such a sad case.

goat2

I am thinking also that they are thinking of tidal movement that night, I just think that if that little baby had lived, what would he be doing now, what age would he be now, Family members of the girl that had him, could know something

Seth Brundle

They are doing the door-to-door checks on Valentia though as they now reckon tidal movements could have swept the baby over to Caherciveen.
RTE are saying that they've made this decision based on "no specific intelligence", which seems a bit odd.

goat2

Today in the news, they are now making door to door enquiries, maybe someone that knew something and were afraid to reveal, could bring this to a conclusion, also they might have a better idea where the little baby was put in the sea, with advancement of science, and DNA they could be close to the truth in the area it happened in,
I cannot think what time of the year it happened, but that area would have tourists mainly for the july, august time of year back then,

RustyNut

tayto lover wrote: »

Ah well if that's all it was it was minor enough. I never saw anyone sell themselves short anywhere i worked when quoting figures. Nobody was harmed.
I'd be more concerned at what happened in the Kerry Babies case than i would over that because someone suffered or was accused in the wrong.

If our police force only lied to massage their figures that would be bad enough concidering their place in society but when even the leader of the "law and order" party is expressing concern about the evidence given by guards in a trial where citizens were facing a life sentence then I think we all have reason to be worried and if the jobstown trial teaches us anything it's that AGS have not moved one step forward since the Kerry Babies case.

tayto lover

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Apart from the extra people who died because they did not perform their duties of course.
Road safety enforcement has a direct correlation with accidents and fatalities.

That's a fair point tbh.

Pawwed Rig

tayto lover wrote: »

Ah well if that's all it was it was minor enough. I never saw anyone sell themselves short anywhere i worked when quoting figures. Nobody was harmed.

Apart from the extra people who died because they did not perform their duties of course.
Road safety enforcement has a direct correlation with accidents and fatalities.

tayto lover

RustyNut wrote: »

I think it was from the bottom to the top.

Ah well if that's all it was it was minor enough. I never saw anyone sell themselves short anywhere i worked when quoting figures. Nobody was harmed.
I'd be more concerned at what happened in the Kerry Babies case than i would over that because someone suffered or was accused in the wrong.

RustyNut

tayto lover wrote: »

I thought it was higher up garda who compiled those figures, like superintendants?

I think it was from the bottom to the top.

Conversation extract contained in report between garda and call taker

Call taker: Number of vehicles stopped and controlled?

Garda: Is that the number of vehicles through the checkpoint or number of vehicles breath tested?

Call taker: Well the way I reckon...

Garda: I reckon it's stopped and breathalysed, is it?

Call taker: Even if they are not breathalysed, if you stop them and stick your head in the window, aren't they controlled, that's my thinking on it.

Garda: We will go with you…Ah 120 went through...

Call taker: How many negative breath tests?

Garda: 30 and 30, 60 ah 80, 90 we will say.

tayto lover

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

breath test figures

That is all

I thought it was higher up garda who compiled those figures, like superintendants?

Pawwed Rig

tayto lover wrote: »

I don't believe that any of those matters on statistics are compiled by the garda members the public meet from day to day.

breath test figures

That is all

tayto lover

RustyNut wrote: »

That's great that you had two positive experiences with them, other people will have had a different experience.

I don't think that two experiences can be used to extrapolate anything, either all cops are great or anything else.

We are talking about an organisation that is not belived by the Central Statistics Office , the Garda Inspectorate didn't find them to be tip top professionals,The Policing Authority don't seem too convinced that the Gardai are a compitent organisation. It would appear that they can't even keep their college tax compliente.

Maybe their is a report out their somewhere that says they are a great bunch of open transparent professionals who follow best international practice but all the reports I've read say the exact opposite, the Kerry Babies case being just one example of where the people have been letdown by their police force.

I don't believe that any of those matters on statistics are compiled by the garda members the public meet from day to day. I respect the work they are doing on the Irene White murder in Dundalk, the Graham Dwyer case etc which was down to good investigation work by them. There were no local garda members it seems working on the Kerry babies but a team from Dublin sent down to get results by management, that is from reading reports.

lalababa

I suppose there is a fair argument for the Gardai going after this murder suspect.

A. because there was a murder. B. New DNA evidence.
C. If they succeed it might draw a line in this cluster****. (It won't)D.They can say 'look how we've changed' E. Whatever you're having yourself.
Who knows who killed the baby and what state they were in?

RustyNut

tayto lover wrote: »

I still have great faith in them for one as do most people i'd say. I don't believe they're disfunctional at all. There's more than 10K of them and most do their jobs well from what I see. I had two dealings with them in the last 6/7 months and couldn't fault their work.

That's great that you had two positive experiences with them, other people will have had a different experience.

I don't think that two experiences can be used to extrapolate anything, either all cops are great or anything else.

We are talking about an organisation that is not belived by the Central Statistics Office , the Garda Inspectorate didn't find them to be tip top professionals,The Policing Authority don't seem too convinced that the Gardai are a compitent organisation. It would appear that they can't even keep their college tax compliente.

Maybe their is a report out their somewhere that says they are a great bunch of open transparent professionals who follow best international practice but all the reports I've read say the exact opposite, the Kerry Babies case being just one example of where the people have been letdown by their police force.

julyjane

RustyNut wrote: »

They didnt try to bring the murderer to justice during the original investigation, they attempted to fit up an innocent family, what makes you think they are not doing the same thing again?

What makes you think they are?

Are Am Eye

tayto lover wrote: »

I had two dealings with them in the last 6/7 months

You should interact with your colleagues more often.
#Teamwork.