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DART+ (DART Expansion)

murphaph

New propoganda here but it really whets the appetite.....who knows if we'll have the nerve to do it though....

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L1011

Raising and lowering the pantograph happens daily in Fairview without issue. Snagging sounds more like it was raised before going under wires really

prunudo

Sam Russell wrote: »

The trams in Nice lower their catenaries at a stop and proceed on batteries and raise the catenaries at the next stop. I would imagine the train would need to be stationary while it changed over.

I think this was what happened in London's Paddington station during the week. They were testing a Hitachi bimode train and when it raised the catenaries up, they got snagged in the overhead wires and pulled a lot of them down.

Telchak

Sam Russell wrote: »

The trams in Nice lower their catenaries at a stop and proceed on batteries and raise the catenaries at the next stop. I would imagine the train would need to be stationary while it changed over.

I wonder would there be the clearance in the tunnel for an overhead rail to push the catenaries down, but just without the associated electrical infrastructure.

Sam Russell

Telchak wrote: »

I think it's no bi-mode trains, rather than hybrid, that are what they're looking at. Catenaries lower, and a small diesel locomotive kicks in.

The trams in Nice lower their catenaries at a stop and proceed on batteries and raise the catenaries at the next stop. I would imagine the train would need to be stationary while it changed over.

Telchak

Rulmeq wrote: »

Do you know if they are able to switch from Diesel to electric on the fly? I would have expected them to require modification to work with either?

I think it's bi-mode trains, rather than hybrid, that are what they're looking at. Catenaries lower, and a small diesel locomotive kicks in.

Rulmeq

MJohnston wrote: »

Yes, that's correct. No room in the PPT for it. Which is why I've been very curious about hybrid trains recently, as it would mean short gaps like that wouldn't matter.

Do you know if they are able to switch from Diesel to electric on the fly? I would have expected them to require modification to work with either?

roadmaster

MJohnston wrote: »

Yes, that's correct. No room in the PPT for it. Which is why I've been very curious about hybrid trains recently, as it would mean short gaps like that wouldn't matter.

I wonder will we see no cables from the northern side of the tunnel to the tie in with the Connolly and dock lands lines. It would certainly save a few quid

MJohnston

roadmaster wrote: »

I am not sure if i am reading the irish rail website correct but it seams to say the electrification from hazzlehatch only goes to heuston and not through the PPT . Is that correct or am i reading it wrong?

http://www.irishrail.ie/about-us/projects-investment/dart-expansion-programme

Yes, that's correct. No room in the PPT for it. Which is why I've been very curious about hybrid trains recently, as it would mean short gaps like that wouldn't matter.

roadmaster

I am not sure if i am reading the irish rail website correct but it seams to say the electrification from hazzlehatch only goes to heuston and not through the PPT . Is that correct or am i reading it wrong?

http://www.irishrail.ie/about-us/projects-investment/dart-expansion-programme

LXFlyer

Dats me wrote: »

This is from the National Development Plan:

"NTA and Irish Rail currently in the process of defining an over-all integrated schedule for the DART Expansion Programme. NTA have appointment a specialist advisory team to progress the commencement of new fleet tender competition in Q4, 2018 and award a contract in 2019.
It is expected that the electrification/resignalling programme will commence in 2021/2022."

Also in that hiring list, why are they looking for a manager for the City-Centre resignalling? Is that not done?

The final phase of the city centre resignalling project which is Connolly has been on hold, pending a decision on the revised layout once the NTA decide the service pattern they want services to operate in the medium-long term.

Dats me

This is from the National Development Plan:

"NTA and Irish Rail currently in the process of defining an over-all integrated schedule for the DART Expansion Programme. NTA have appointment a specialist advisory team to progress the commencement of new fleet tender competition in Q4, 2018 and award a contract in 2019.
It is expected that the electrification/resignalling programme will commence in 2021/2022."

Also in that hiring list, why are they looking for a manager for the City-Centre resignalling? Is that not done?

Jamie2k9

They are now officially recruiting for this whole project.

http://www.irishrail.ie/about-us/career-opportunities

Colonel Claptrap

I noticed construction work in Pearse station today.

I wonder are they finally fixing the roof.

cgcsb

Grandeeod wrote: »

Not a lot to do with the Wonga. FG simply do not believe in DU and believe their Metrolink idea combined with DART expansion via Tara Street and Phisboro is the future. Its not even their idea. It was ripped off from suggested plans for the original Metro North and believe it or not the campaign to get the PPT route working again. Goes all the way back to 2003. A classic example of politicians interfering. The NTA are doing what they are told to do.

While I agree with the sentiment. Metrolink and DART expansion are nothing to be sniffed at. That's €5bn in the one City. Achieving an even larger spend in the short term is politically impossible in the current political climate. Irish people, in large numbers are still talking about silly things like 'rural regeneration' and 'maintaining the current skyline' concepts that most of Europe abandoned way before current living memory. The government is generally a reflection of the people where there is democracy.

cgcsb

D.L.R. wrote: »

This is really dumb. Lets stick to DU and leave the stunning geopolitical insight for another thread.

I'm sorry that you disagree or don't understand the point. Please refrain from belittling my opinon though.

D.L.R. wrote: »

Currently this one horse state is still too busy paying off its wonga.com debts to organise the financing or ambition for DU.

Spain, Portugal and Greece are in worse financial situations yet they continue to invest in transport in even greater amounts. Countries don't just simply pay back debts like a credit union loan, they grow their economy and thus inflate themselves out of debt, faster than they could ever make payments.

Grandeeod

D.L.R. wrote: »

This is really dumb. Lets stick to DU and leave the stunning geopolitical insight for another thread.

Currently this one horse state is still too busy paying off its wonga.com debts to organise the financing or ambition for DU.

Not a lot to do with the Wonga. FG simply do not believe in DU and believe their Metrolink idea combined with DART expansion via Tara Street and Phisboro is the future. Its not even their idea. It was ripped off from suggested plans for the original Metro North and believe it or not the campaign to get the PPT route working again. Goes all the way back to 2003. A classic example of politicians interfering. The NTA are doing what they are told to do.

D.L.R.

cgcsb wrote: »

Ireland's slow drift away from British popular culture just stepped up about 5 gears after Brexit, and America is now widely viewed as 'finished' from a popular culture point of view.

This is really dumb. Lets stick to DU and leave the stunning geopolitical insight for another thread.

Currently this one horse state is still too busy paying off its wonga.com debts to organise the financing or ambition for DU.

Lord Glentoran

cgcsb wrote: »

You don't need massive taxation to have reasonable public transport in place. Spain has metro and/or tram networks in place or under construction in 20 of it's Cities, including the 1 line underground system in Granada(250,000 people) and the 2 line underground system in the Island community of Palma de Majorca(550,000 in the metropolitan area). Not to mention the extensive electric commuter rail and tram networks that exist across the country and the national high speed rail network that connects them all, transversing Spain's sparsely populated interior.

This is all accomplished ontop of free healthcare, with half the youth unemployed, similar personal taxation to Ireland and fares rarely surpass €2 in the cities. Corruption in Spain would make even Haughy blush with embarrassment. It's quite simply a matter of mindset. In the English speaking world our interests typically end at the hedge of the bottom of our gardens, especially in highly ruralised Ireland. People screaming about Dublin being 'too small' for metro or Cork being 'too small' for tram are only aping Brit/Yankee behaviour. This is rapidly changing though, Ireland's slow drift away from British popular culture just stepped up about 5 gears after Brexit, and America is now widely viewed as 'finished' from a popular culture point of view.

I blame the buck eejits who read Ayn Rand in College and decided that being a greedy sh*t was the acme of moral superiority.

cgcsb

You don't need massive taxation to have reasonable public transport in place. Spain has metro and/or tram networks in place or under construction in 20 of it's Cities, including the 1 line underground system in Granada(250,000 people) and the 2 line underground system in the Island community of Palma de Majorca(550,000 in the metropolitan area). Not to mention the extensive electric commuter rail and tram networks that exist across the country and the national high speed rail network that connects them all, transversing Spain's sparsely populated interior.

This is all accomplished ontop of free healthcare, with half the youth unemployed, similar personal taxation to Ireland and fares rarely surpass €2 in the cities. Corruption in Spain would make even Haughy blush with embarrassment. It's quite simply a matter of mindset. In the English speaking world our interests typically end at the hedge of the bottom of our gardens, especially in highly ruralised Ireland. People screaming about Dublin being 'too small' for metro or Cork being 'too small' for tram are only aping Brit/Yankee behaviour. This is rapidly changing though, Ireland's slow drift away from British popular culture just stepped up about 5 gears after Brexit, and America is now widely viewed as 'finished' from a popular culture point of view.

Lord Glentoran

loyatemu wrote: »

it has been "postponed" - as the most recent transport plans cover up to 2028, it's unlikely to start before then. If there is any planning ongoing it's presumably fairly low-priority considering the NTA are working on MetroLink, BusConnects etc and Irish Rail are busy buggering up the Dart timetables.

The great national pastime of buggering up transport projects, having done a job on DART Underground, is currently focused on BusConnects.

Given that, I don’t expect to see DART Underground while I’m alive.

loyatemu

Dats me wrote: »

Do we know whether DART Underground is currently being planned? Is it Irish Rail or the NTA who would be designing? (We can presume NTA would be very busy at the moment).

Based on discussions on the MetroLink thread and looking at a map, if MetroLink sticks with the Tara station, DU could go from Christchurch to Tara to Docklands. This would skip both the cost of the Stephen's Green station and the cost of tunnelling for that big loop down from Pearse and back up. Given there were only 4 underground stations originally, could the saved tunnelling and station costs shave off 30% of the price?

it has been "postponed" - as the most recent transport plans cover up to 2028, it's unlikely to start before then. If there is any planning ongoing it's presumably fairly low-priority considering the NTA are working on MetroLink, BusConnects etc and Irish Rail are busy buggering up the Dart timetables.

Dats me

Do we know whether DART Underground is currently being planned? Is it Irish Rail or the NTA who would be designing? (We can presume NTA would be very busy at the moment).

Based on discussions on the MetroLink thread and looking at a map, if MetroLink sticks with the Tara station, DU could go from Christchurch to Tara to Docklands. This would skip both the cost of the Stephen's Green station and the cost of tunnelling for that big loop down from Pearse and back up. Given there were only 4 underground stations originally, could the saved tunnelling and station costs shave off 30% of the price?

Idbatterim

MayoSalmon wrote: »

The Personal Income Tax Rate in Sweden stands at 61.85 percent...eh no thanks!

Where to even start! Over what rate ? You think if they “only” had a marginal 50% rate, they’d have the third world transport System we have ?

marno21

Tender issued by Irish Rail for the construction of the new Pelletstown station located on the Maynooth line between Ashtown and Broombridge. This station will start construction in May 2019 and open in November 2020.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=135745&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

Electrification along here is paramount now for improved acceleration (as if it wasn't already).

roadmaster

D.L.R. wrote: »

If they built a raised station on top of the DU footprint, this could be used for Maynooth and Sligo services, and even Northern line and Kildare services. Once DU is in place it could serve the Enterprise too, if there were enough platforms factored in. You could have retail on a ground floor concourse, and create a beating heart hub for the Docklands.

Of course this would require a state with actual ambition and foresight regards rail.

They need to get the finger out because if Spencer place starts before the new docklands station they will have caused alot of extra works on themselves for no reason

D.L.R.

roadmaster wrote: »

Where they are talking of moving docklands to do NTA/CIE have a version of a CPO on the land around it or is building a underground station in the planning for the office/apartment block Because from what i am hearing the developer is eager to get building there.

If they built a raised station on top of the DU footprint, this could be used for Maynooth and Sligo services, and even Northern line and Kildare services. Once DU is in place it could serve the Enterprise too, if there were enough platforms factored in. You could have retail on a ground floor concourse, and create a beating heart hub for the Docklands.

Of course this would require a state with actual ambition and foresight regards rail.

roadmaster

D.L.R. wrote: »

Integrating Docklands with tram & future Dart Underground is a no brainer, and the route is still available. There's no reason NOT to do it, besides money.

All they need to do is finalise the revised DU route and then just bite the bullet and build the DU box at the same time. We need to actually start building this stuff.

Where they are talking of moving docklands to do NTA/CIE have a version of a CPO on the land around it or is building a underground station in the planning for the office/apartment block Because from what i am hearing the developer is eager to get building there.

Bray Head

There were some big, unforced policy errors around 2015 when it came to transport infrastructure.

Policymakers failed to see how demand was rising and decided to keep transport infrastructure spending flat essentially until 2018, with spending to increase only afterward - see table 1 here. Remember: transport spending needs long lead-in time.

At the same time priority was given to reducing the income tax burden, which was questionable given how well employment was growing anyway.

We are now beginning to see the impact of decisions not taken three years ago.

MayoSalmon

Zebra3 wrote: »

I’d gladly take the higher standard of living.

And I'd gladly keep my more of my own money as would the majority of people.

Sure why don't we all pay 95% income taxation rates and build a Hyperloop under Dublin public infrastructure solved.

Zebra3

MayoSalmon wrote: »

The Personal Income Tax Rate in Sweden stands at 61.85 percent...eh no thanks!

I’d gladly take the higher standard of living.