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DART+ (DART Expansion)

murphaph

New propoganda here but it really whets the appetite.....who knows if we'll have the nerve to do it though....

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D.L.R.

roadmaster wrote: »

I think when the sligo bound train is waiting to cross the northern line is the problem as it is frustrating for the commuters but more importantly when the dart arrives on the maynooth line what happens there will it have to wait behind the sligo train? Then there goes your timetable. I think if CIE/IR do move docklands station like they are saying. They should send all Sligo/Longford/Mullingar Trains there. As the luas will be on there doorstep with easy access to the city. But several people i believe on here have voiced issues about Sligo/Mullingar trains going to docklands

Integrating Docklands with tram & future Dart Underground is a no brainer, and the route is still available. There's no reason NOT to do it, besides money.

All they need to do is finalise the revised DU route and then just bite the bullet and build the DU box at the same time. We need to actually start building this stuff.

murphaph

D.L.R. wrote: »

Integrating Docklands with tram & future Dart Underground is a no brainer, and the route is still available. There's no reason NOT to do it, besides money.

All they need to do is finalise the revised DU route and then just bite the bullet and build the DU box at the same time. We need to actually start building this stuff.

Amen. Was in Stockholm for the first time last week. Considering Dublin is a similar size they put us to shame completely. Time to stop the excuses and build stuff.

marno21

According to DPER's Investment Tracker published today:

"NTA and Irish Rail currently in the process of defining an over-all integrated schedule for the DART Expansion Programme. NTA have appointment a specialist advisory team to progress the commencement of new fleet tender competition in Q4, 2018 and award a contract in 2019.
It is expected that the electrification/resignalling programme will commence in 2021/2022."

Of the €2bn to spent between now and 2027, €318m will be spent between now and 2022.

1huge1

2022 before they even start extending the dart network, even by their standards, that is painfully slow.

marno21

1huge1 wrote: »

2022 before they even start extending the dart network, even by their standards, that is painfully slow.

2021. Starting with putting up wires on the Northern Line but I am open to correction. Funds upto then will be spent on fleet.

Most commuters would be happier with more trains rather than looking at workers installing a catenary out the window of a crush loaded train.

LXFlyer

marno21 wrote: »

2021. Starting with putting up wires on the Northern Line but I am open to correction. Funds upto then will be spent on fleet.

Most commuters would be happier with more trains rather than looking at workers installing a catenary out the window of a crush loaded train.

An order for new trains placed in 2019 (probably Q3) is going to mean at least Q4 2020 before entering service if not 2021 - that’s a massively long time before any expansion of the fleet happens.

MayoSalmon

murphaph wrote: »

Amen. Was in Stockholm for the first time last week. Considering Dublin is a similar size they put us to shame completely. Time to stop the excuses and build stuff.

The Personal Income Tax Rate in Sweden stands at 61.85 percent...eh no thanks!

Zebra3

MayoSalmon wrote: »

The Personal Income Tax Rate in Sweden stands at 61.85 percent...eh no thanks!

I’d gladly take the higher standard of living.

MayoSalmon

Zebra3 wrote: »

I’d gladly take the higher standard of living.

And I'd gladly keep my more of my own money as would the majority of people.

Sure why don't we all pay 95% income taxation rates and build a Hyperloop under Dublin public infrastructure solved.

Bray Head

There were some big, unforced policy errors around 2015 when it came to transport infrastructure.

Policymakers failed to see how demand was rising and decided to keep transport infrastructure spending flat essentially until 2018, with spending to increase only afterward - see table 1 here. Remember: transport spending needs long lead-in time.

At the same time priority was given to reducing the income tax burden, which was questionable given how well employment was growing anyway.

We are now beginning to see the impact of decisions not taken three years ago.

roadmaster

D.L.R. wrote: »

Integrating Docklands with tram & future Dart Underground is a no brainer, and the route is still available. There's no reason NOT to do it, besides money.

All they need to do is finalise the revised DU route and then just bite the bullet and build the DU box at the same time. We need to actually start building this stuff.

Where they are talking of moving docklands to do NTA/CIE have a version of a CPO on the land around it or is building a underground station in the planning for the office/apartment block Because from what i am hearing the developer is eager to get building there.

D.L.R.

roadmaster wrote: »

Where they are talking of moving docklands to do NTA/CIE have a version of a CPO on the land around it or is building a underground station in the planning for the office/apartment block Because from what i am hearing the developer is eager to get building there.

If they built a raised station on top of the DU footprint, this could be used for Maynooth and Sligo services, and even Northern line and Kildare services. Once DU is in place it could serve the Enterprise too, if there were enough platforms factored in. You could have retail on a ground floor concourse, and create a beating heart hub for the Docklands.

Of course this would require a state with actual ambition and foresight regards rail.

roadmaster

D.L.R. wrote: »

If they built a raised station on top of the DU footprint, this could be used for Maynooth and Sligo services, and even Northern line and Kildare services. Once DU is in place it could serve the Enterprise too, if there were enough platforms factored in. You could have retail on a ground floor concourse, and create a beating heart hub for the Docklands.

Of course this would require a state with actual ambition and foresight regards rail.

They need to get the finger out because if Spencer place starts before the new docklands station they will have caused alot of extra works on themselves for no reason

marno21

Tender issued by Irish Rail for the construction of the new Pelletstown station located on the Maynooth line between Ashtown and Broombridge. This station will start construction in May 2019 and open in November 2020.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=135745&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

Electrification along here is paramount now for improved acceleration (as if it wasn't already).

Idbatterim

MayoSalmon wrote: »

The Personal Income Tax Rate in Sweden stands at 61.85 percent...eh no thanks!

Where to even start! Over what rate ? You think if they “only” had a marginal 50% rate, they’d have the third world transport System we have ?

Dats me

Do we know whether DART Underground is currently being planned? Is it Irish Rail or the NTA who would be designing? (We can presume NTA would be very busy at the moment).

Based on discussions on the MetroLink thread and looking at a map, if MetroLink sticks with the Tara station, DU could go from Christchurch to Tara to Docklands. This would skip both the cost of the Stephen's Green station and the cost of tunnelling for that big loop down from Pearse and back up. Given there were only 4 underground stations originally, could the saved tunnelling and station costs shave off 30% of the price?

loyatemu

Dats me wrote: »

Do we know whether DART Underground is currently being planned? Is it Irish Rail or the NTA who would be designing? (We can presume NTA would be very busy at the moment).

Based on discussions on the MetroLink thread and looking at a map, if MetroLink sticks with the Tara station, DU could go from Christchurch to Tara to Docklands. This would skip both the cost of the Stephen's Green station and the cost of tunnelling for that big loop down from Pearse and back up. Given there were only 4 underground stations originally, could the saved tunnelling and station costs shave off 30% of the price?

it has been "postponed" - as the most recent transport plans cover up to 2028, it's unlikely to start before then. If there is any planning ongoing it's presumably fairly low-priority considering the NTA are working on MetroLink, BusConnects etc and Irish Rail are busy buggering up the Dart timetables.

Lord Glentoran

loyatemu wrote: »

it has been "postponed" - as the most recent transport plans cover up to 2028, it's unlikely to start before then. If there is any planning ongoing it's presumably fairly low-priority considering the NTA are working on MetroLink, BusConnects etc and Irish Rail are busy buggering up the Dart timetables.

The great national pastime of buggering up transport projects, having done a job on DART Underground, is currently focused on BusConnects.

Given that, I don’t expect to see DART Underground while I’m alive.

cgcsb

You don't need massive taxation to have reasonable public transport in place. Spain has metro and/or tram networks in place or under construction in 20 of it's Cities, including the 1 line underground system in Granada(250,000 people) and the 2 line underground system in the Island community of Palma de Majorca(550,000 in the metropolitan area). Not to mention the extensive electric commuter rail and tram networks that exist across the country and the national high speed rail network that connects them all, transversing Spain's sparsely populated interior.

This is all accomplished ontop of free healthcare, with half the youth unemployed, similar personal taxation to Ireland and fares rarely surpass €2 in the cities. Corruption in Spain would make even Haughy blush with embarrassment. It's quite simply a matter of mindset. In the English speaking world our interests typically end at the hedge of the bottom of our gardens, especially in highly ruralised Ireland. People screaming about Dublin being 'too small' for metro or Cork being 'too small' for tram are only aping Brit/Yankee behaviour. This is rapidly changing though, Ireland's slow drift away from British popular culture just stepped up about 5 gears after Brexit, and America is now widely viewed as 'finished' from a popular culture point of view.

Lord Glentoran

cgcsb wrote: »

You don't need massive taxation to have reasonable public transport in place. Spain has metro and/or tram networks in place or under construction in 20 of it's Cities, including the 1 line underground system in Granada(250,000 people) and the 2 line underground system in the Island community of Palma de Majorca(550,000 in the metropolitan area). Not to mention the extensive electric commuter rail and tram networks that exist across the country and the national high speed rail network that connects them all, transversing Spain's sparsely populated interior.

This is all accomplished ontop of free healthcare, with half the youth unemployed, similar personal taxation to Ireland and fares rarely surpass €2 in the cities. Corruption in Spain would make even Haughy blush with embarrassment. It's quite simply a matter of mindset. In the English speaking world our interests typically end at the hedge of the bottom of our gardens, especially in highly ruralised Ireland. People screaming about Dublin being 'too small' for metro or Cork being 'too small' for tram are only aping Brit/Yankee behaviour. This is rapidly changing though, Ireland's slow drift away from British popular culture just stepped up about 5 gears after Brexit, and America is now widely viewed as 'finished' from a popular culture point of view.

I blame the buck eejits who read Ayn Rand in College and decided that being a greedy sh*t was the acme of moral superiority.

D.L.R.

cgcsb wrote: »

Ireland's slow drift away from British popular culture just stepped up about 5 gears after Brexit, and America is now widely viewed as 'finished' from a popular culture point of view.

This is really dumb. Lets stick to DU and leave the stunning geopolitical insight for another thread.

Currently this one horse state is still too busy paying off its wonga.com debts to organise the financing or ambition for DU.

Grandeeod

D.L.R. wrote: »

This is really dumb. Lets stick to DU and leave the stunning geopolitical insight for another thread.

Currently this one horse state is still too busy paying off its wonga.com debts to organise the financing or ambition for DU.

Not a lot to do with the Wonga. FG simply do not believe in DU and believe their Metrolink idea combined with DART expansion via Tara Street and Phisboro is the future. Its not even their idea. It was ripped off from suggested plans for the original Metro North and believe it or not the campaign to get the PPT route working again. Goes all the way back to 2003. A classic example of politicians interfering. The NTA are doing what they are told to do.

cgcsb

D.L.R. wrote: »

This is really dumb. Lets stick to DU and leave the stunning geopolitical insight for another thread.

I'm sorry that you disagree or don't understand the point. Please refrain from belittling my opinon though.

D.L.R. wrote: »

Currently this one horse state is still too busy paying off its wonga.com debts to organise the financing or ambition for DU.

Spain, Portugal and Greece are in worse financial situations yet they continue to invest in transport in even greater amounts. Countries don't just simply pay back debts like a credit union loan, they grow their economy and thus inflate themselves out of debt, faster than they could ever make payments.

cgcsb

Grandeeod wrote: »

Not a lot to do with the Wonga. FG simply do not believe in DU and believe their Metrolink idea combined with DART expansion via Tara Street and Phisboro is the future. Its not even their idea. It was ripped off from suggested plans for the original Metro North and believe it or not the campaign to get the PPT route working again. Goes all the way back to 2003. A classic example of politicians interfering. The NTA are doing what they are told to do.

While I agree with the sentiment. Metrolink and DART expansion are nothing to be sniffed at. That's €5bn in the one City. Achieving an even larger spend in the short term is politically impossible in the current political climate. Irish people, in large numbers are still talking about silly things like 'rural regeneration' and 'maintaining the current skyline' concepts that most of Europe abandoned way before current living memory. The government is generally a reflection of the people where there is democracy.

Colonel Claptrap

I noticed construction work in Pearse station today.

I wonder are they finally fixing the roof.

Jamie2k9

They are now officially recruiting for this whole project.

http://www.irishrail.ie/about-us/career-opportunities

Dats me

This is from the National Development Plan:

"NTA and Irish Rail currently in the process of defining an over-all integrated schedule for the DART Expansion Programme. NTA have appointment a specialist advisory team to progress the commencement of new fleet tender competition in Q4, 2018 and award a contract in 2019.
It is expected that the electrification/resignalling programme will commence in 2021/2022."

Also in that hiring list, why are they looking for a manager for the City-Centre resignalling? Is that not done?

LXFlyer

Dats me wrote: »

This is from the National Development Plan:

"NTA and Irish Rail currently in the process of defining an over-all integrated schedule for the DART Expansion Programme. NTA have appointment a specialist advisory team to progress the commencement of new fleet tender competition in Q4, 2018 and award a contract in 2019.
It is expected that the electrification/resignalling programme will commence in 2021/2022."

Also in that hiring list, why are they looking for a manager for the City-Centre resignalling? Is that not done?

The final phase of the city centre resignalling project which is Connolly has been on hold, pending a decision on the revised layout once the NTA decide the service pattern they want services to operate in the medium-long term.

roadmaster

I am not sure if i am reading the irish rail website correct but it seams to say the electrification from hazzlehatch only goes to heuston and not through the PPT . Is that correct or am i reading it wrong?

http://www.irishrail.ie/about-us/projects-investment/dart-expansion-programme

MJohnston

roadmaster wrote: »

I am not sure if i am reading the irish rail website correct but it seams to say the electrification from hazzlehatch only goes to heuston and not through the PPT . Is that correct or am i reading it wrong?

http://www.irishrail.ie/about-us/projects-investment/dart-expansion-programme

Yes, that's correct. No room in the PPT for it. Which is why I've been very curious about hybrid trains recently, as it would mean short gaps like that wouldn't matter.