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Child Item

Should Dublin ban Burqas and Hijabs?

Skinhead Kane

Greetings guys and girls,

I have been thinking about this topic for quite some time now and have yet to make a real judgement on what truly would be a correct answer. If were to go to a country populated by the Muslim community we would be asked to cover up and follow their religious procedure.

Therefore in Britain and Ireland I believe we are within our rights to ban something that isolates woman and was made by men to oppress them. If I were to show my hair/head in their countries, I would be seen as obscene.

Recently came back from a trip and had some female friends been told by locals to cover their arms and legs as well as hair before entering out of the city centre areas. It was a very aggressive approach to and almost demanded 'or we leave the country' type of attitude. Now not using this as a reason or motive to make this topic, but it has however got me thinking.

If I could vote on it, I would ban burqas and possibly hijab.

What's your take on this guys?

Regards,

Sk

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blinding

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

all the anti Christian/catholic posters of boards must be really really Reallllly against Islam as it is even more anti women. Different league entirely

They are scared of Islam because they don’t want to be thrown off buildings . Violence works for Islam .

zapitastas

blinding wrote: »

Is that ok for suicide bombs like the guy at the Arianna Grande Concert ?

Was the person that carried out that attack wearing a Burka or just carrying a backpack?

cournioni

suicide_circus wrote: »

banning would just make them a subversive mark of defiance and make the women prosecuted into martyrs.

there is no doubt that they are absolutely f*cked up and a tool for the subjugation of women but i just dont see banning as the answer.

I think all clothing that doesn’t allow reasonable identification of a person in public should be banned. The hijab is fine, the niqab and burqua not fine.

blinding

Edgware wrote: »

While we are at it lets ban families taking their daughters from school at 16 and marrying their cousins, then dropping kids for the next 20 years while living in a caravan on welfare

And some people say women have it hard . Obviously they are having hard some of the time .

timthumbni

Re education If you look at Islamic schools in England you will see just how progressive they are.

Unless you think that killling infidels (ie. ourselves) and throwing gay people off the roof is progressive of course.

Beechwoodspark

all the anti Christian/catholic posters of boards must be really really Reallllly against Islam as it is even more anti women. Different league entirely

blinding

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I think because the first one is associated with criminality / bank robberies, the second one not so. Could be wrong though.

A criminal that shot a Police woman in England used a burka as part of his efforts to escape Police hunting him .

A woman in London used a Burka to hide her identity as she followed a woman and then sprayed that woman with acid .

A terrorist used a burka to escape a mosque that was being watched by authorities .

These are three that I know of off the top of my head .

The Burka was a highly dangerous security risk in these three situations .

I suppose it will only be when some far right group use burkas to hide themselves ( possibly to attack muslims ) that this crazy Burka security threat will be stopped .

suicide_circus

banning would just make them a subversive mark of defiance and make the women prosecuted into martyrs.

there is no doubt that they are absolutely f*cked up and a tool for the subjugation of women but some clever imams have marketed them as a symbol of liberation for Muslim women and i just dont see banning as the answer.

Malayalam

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Plenty of people do in fact justify FGM on that “it’s their culture” basis. Arguing that it’s a choice to wear a burka is a deflection: people brought up in historically ultra Christian societies often forgo their freedoms in what looked like “choice” but was dictated by the religion they were born to.

What gets me about some traditional dress (like the abaya in Saudi) is that’s its mandated as black in an extremely hot country. The men are in white.

Yeah, I know re FGM. I don't understand this cultural relativism thing when there is obvious abuse going on. Long long before all this stuff surfaced and people became scared stiff to say anything about extremist theocratical practices I witnessed some of that culture from the inside. As a hitch hiker in Turkey in the 1980s, for example, I saw women whipped from their beds, literally lashed and slapped at in their homes, to get up in the middle of the night to cook food, or bring drink or make up extra beds for pals. There were mostly noble good high-minded people who would never dream of mistreating their women folk, but the cultural norms enabled that portion of assholes, degenerates and retards that every society has to act out their brutality with free reign and religious and societal justification

cournioni

Discodog wrote: »

We should ban one faith schools & remove any religious ceremony from schools. But we should teach children about all religions & give them the confidence to challenge & decide what they want in adult life.

What makes you think that this is the right thing to do? Why are you right and religious people wrong?

Before you say it I’m not a religious person. I just find your point of view a little far fetched, and quite arrogant.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Discodog wrote: »

You progress by educating not banning.

What’s that mean? Are you hoping for an Irish education system that attacks conservative Muslim dress?

FTA69

Thestones wrote: »

Yes should be banned, like another poster says you see the men swanning around in jeans and tshirts in the modern clothing but the women still have to wear tents! Why don't the men wear traditional clothing aswell? It's such BS! On a side note I was in sandymount recently on a lovely hot day during the summer wearing a short dress while walking with my husband, came across a Muslim family and the woman literally looked me up and down, clearly judging me for wearing a short dress, this boils my blood, how dare these people come to our country and judge women on what they wear, I'll wear whatever the f*** I want in my own country. If they don't like western culture they shouldn't be here, adapt or leave, like we would have to in their country.

My Nan would probably eyeball you for wearing a short dress as well. Wouldn't say we should ban her from Waterford though.

Conservatism isn't unique to Muslims.

cournioni

Discodog wrote: »

You progress by educating not banning.

What way will you be educating them?

Edgware

While we are at it lets ban families taking their daughters from school at 16 and marrying their cousins, then dropping kids for the next 20 years while living in a caravan on welfare

Discodog

We should ban one faith schools & remove any religious ceremony from schools. But we should teach children about all religions & give them the confidence to challenge & decide what they want in adult life.

Tokyo

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Saying “as a personal choice” there is fairly meaningless. Women in Ireland used to go to church as a personal choice but that’s still condemned, in retrospect, as patriarchal.

And yet I don't see people standing outside churches as headscarved old women go to mass, denouncing it as a tool of oppression?

Whether you care to see it or not, for many Muslim women, it is a personal choice, for reasons of their own choosing.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Do you want this for all women? If not, why then for some.

But the thing is, that's not what I said. I didn't say I wanted (some) women to wear the burka/hijab/niqab. What I said was that I wanted them to have the choice to wear it, if that was what they wished. People are crying out that forcing a woman who doesn't want to wear this garment to wear one is oppression? Surely that argument should work both ways then, no?

Thestones

Yes should be banned, like another poster says you see the men swanning around in jeans and tshirts in the modern clothing but the women still have to wear tents! Why don't the men wear traditional clothing aswell? It's such BS! On a side note I was in sandymount recently on a lovely hot day during the summer wearing a short dress while walking with my husband, came across a Muslim family and the woman literally looked me up and down, clearly judging me for wearing a short dress, this boils my blood, how dare these people come to our country and judge women on what they wear, I'll wear whatever the f*** I want in my own country. If they don't like western culture they shouldn't be here, adapt or leave, like we would have to in their country.

P_1

Yes, along with crucifixes, stars of David and all other religious paraphernalia

FTA69

Malayalam wrote: »

I dislike them, have since I first saw them decades ago. They must be so damn uncomfortable. Have been in lots of places where the guys saunter ahead of their wives and they are wearing jeans and teeshirts and sunglasses, while the poor women straggle behind in the oppressive heat under a tent. If you look at the traditional dress of women from Islamic places all over the globe, they are often very beautiful. Sometimes there were masks, used occasionally, but very decorated and the eyes were visible and also decorated so that one could still see the women's beauty, and the masks often served a purpose such as protection against sand blowing. The various flowing scarves and so on of different Islamic cultures are gorgeous too, and the women even look like they have fun being creative with them. These black yokes are horrible, though. Yes they are sometimes voluntarily worn, but having seen more than my fair share of the inside of cults I can attest that women can be just as religiously/politically fervent and fanatical and often even more so than men. Also the whole modern moral relativistic attitude of ''It's their culture and who are we to say...etc.'' is a real cop out. Try that shyte with FGM, or child marriage, or spousal abuse, or enforced marital sex, etc. It seems reasonable to refuse permission for full facial coverings in public places.

The problem with the "it's their culture argument" is 1) it isn't even the definition of Islamic culture and 2) what happens when feminist women in Iran get banged up for removing their scarf or videoing themselves dancing? Surely we would stand by women challenging a male dominated dictatorship? Unfortunately not for some eejits on the so called left.

That having been said, if you look at France and the U.K., the debate around the niqab etc has very little to do with liberating women or helping anyone - it's often politicians looking to score cheap political points and give Muslims a kicking because that can be a popular thing to do.

Pinch Flat

blinding wrote: »

We are not allowed to go around in Balaclavas = for good reason .

Why are some people allowed to go around in a Burka / Niqab ?

I think because the first one is associated with criminality / bank robberies, the second one not so. Could be wrong though.

Discodog

timthumbni wrote: »

It always amazes me how many people make excuses for Islam and it’s stupid and outdated systems in particular towards its women. Christianity certainly has many faults too (well known now in Ireland regarding the child abuse/laundries scandals etc etc. But it is minor league in comparison to Islam.

The left trumpet on about woman’s rights and also lgbtaz rights but seem to forget about this issue when it comes to Islam. I have no idea why that it but it a very dangerous thing to do. There is no place in Ireland or western society for such practices. We need to progress, not regress.

You progress by educating not banning.

cournioni

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Its equally opressive banning them.

How so?

Franz Von Peppercorn

Malayalam wrote: »

I dislike them, have since I first saw them decades ago. They must be so damn uncomfortable. Have been in lots of places where the guys saunter ahead of their wives and they are wearing jeans and teeshirts and sunglasses, while the poor women straggle behind in the oppressive heat under a tent. If you look at the traditional dress of women from Islamic places all over the globe, they are often very beautiful. Sometimes there were masks, used occasionally, but very decorated and the eyes were visible and also decorated so that one could still see the women's beauty, and the masks often served a purpose such as protection against sand blowing. The various flowing scarves and so on of different Islamic cultures are gorgeous too, and the women even look like they have fun being creative with them. These black yokes are horrible, though. Yes they are sometimes voluntarily worn, but having seen more than my fair share of the inside of cults I can attest that women can be just as religiously/politically fervent and fanatical and often even more so than men. Also the whole modern moral relativistic attitude of ''It's their culture and who are we to say...etc.'' is a real cop out. Try that shyte with FGM, or child marriage, or spousal abuse, or enforced marital sex, etc. It seems reasonable to refuse permission for full facial coverings in public places.

Plenty of people do in fact justify FGM on that “it’s their culture” basis. Arguing that it’s a choice to wear a burka is a deflection: people brought up in historically ultra Christian societies often forgo their freedoms in what looked like “choice” but was dictated by the religion they were born to.

What gets me about some traditional dress (like the abaya in Saudi) is that’s its mandated as black in an extremely hot country. The men are in white.

blinding

We are not allowed to go around in Balaclavas = for good reason .

Why are some people allowed to go around in a Burka / Niqab ?

cournioni

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

ireland.

Nudity prohibited even on private beaches. No burka ban.

France.

Plenty of nudity on private beaches and topless bathing on all beaches. Burka ban.

Apparently France is far right.

Listen, chumps. It’s really not far right to oppose a patriarchal system where women are wrapped up and covered entirely. There’s nothing liberal or feminist about the belief that while you wouldn’t do that to your girlfriend, sister, or white Irish people, it’s fine, it’s a choice for brown Irish people.

In fact why pretend to be liberal or feminist at all. You’re not.

This is separate to the debate about the banning, we don’t really ban headwear here.

There’s a lot of “ what’s wrong with the burka” on this thread.

Don’t you see? It’s all about being open to other people’s cultures and acceptance of all religions in a harmonious manner... all while trying to eradicate the Catholic Church from Ireland in every way shape and form. Yet they don’t see the contradiction.

timthumbni

It always amazes me how many people make excuses for Islam and it’s stupid and outdated systems in particular towards its women. Christianity certainly has many faults too (well known now in Ireland regarding the child abuse/laundries scandals etc etc. But it is minor league in comparison to Islam.

The left trumpet on about woman’s rights and also lgbtaz rights but seem to forget about this issue when it comes to Islam. I have no idea why that it but it a very dangerous thing to do. There is no place in Ireland or western society for such practices. We need to progress, not regress.

Annasopra

Pretzill wrote: »

Yes they should be banned Europe wide imo - it's oppressive, archaic and the reason they are worn as some pseudo protection of a women's modesty is ridiculous in the 21st century western world - when did we start going backwards?

Its equally opressive banning them.

Franz Von Peppercorn

ireland.

Nudity prohibited even on private beaches. No burka ban.

France.

Plenty of nudity on private beaches and topless bathing on all beaches. Burka ban.

Apparently France is far right.

Listen, chumps. It’s really not far right to oppose a patriarchal system where women are wrapped up and covered entirely. There’s nothing liberal or feminist about the belief that while you wouldn’t do that to your girlfriend, sister, or white Irish people, it’s fine, it’s a choice for brown Irish people.

In fact why pretend to be liberal or feminist at all. You’re not.

This is separate to the debate about the banning, we don’t really ban headwear here.

There’s a lot of “ what’s wrong with the burka” on this thread.

Malayalam

I dislike them, have since I first saw them decades ago. They must be so damn uncomfortable. Have been in lots of places where the guys saunter ahead of their wives and they are wearing jeans and teeshirts and sunglasses, while the poor women straggle behind in the oppressive heat under a tent. If you look at the traditional dress of women from Islamic places all over the globe, they are often very beautiful. Sometimes there were masks, used occasionally, but very decorated and the eyes were visible and also decorated so that one could still see the women's beauty, and the masks often served a purpose such as protection against sand blowing. The various flowing scarves and so on of different Islamic cultures are gorgeous too, and the women even look like they have fun being creative with them. These black yokes are horrible, though. Yes they are sometimes voluntarily worn, but having seen more than my fair share of the inside of cults I can attest that women can be just as religiously/politically fervent and fanatical and often even more so than men. Also the whole modern moral relativistic attitude of ''It's their culture and who are we to say...etc.'' is a real cop out. Try that shyte with FGM, or child marriage, or spousal abuse, or enforced marital sex, etc. It seems reasonable to refuse permission for full facial coverings in public places.

[Deleted User]

steve-collins wrote:

100% im surprised no one has tried to rob a bank with one yet.

No one robs banks anymore as they are too secure. Tiger kidnapping is a different story