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M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

JupiterKid

Following on from the suggestion of a poster, this thread has been set up to discuss the need for widening the M7.

The section of the M7 IMO in immediate need (really a backlog need) for widening is the section from the Maudlins Interchange at Naas to the M9 interchange - basically the original 1983 Naas Bypass and half of the 1993 Newbridge Bypass. Is this likely to proceed in the near future?

Would the central median be wide enough for widening to D3M here? I'm pretty sure it is wide enough on the Newbridge bypass section but I'm not so sure in the case of the Naas Bypass.

Also, what bridges will need to be demolished and rebuilt? Or would it be more practical to drop the hard shoulder through the existing bridges?

What about the proposal a few years back to build a new junction at on the Naas Bypass at Osberstown? Will it still go ahead?

In the longer term, does anyone see a need to widen the M7 to the N7/M8 junction?

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CeilingFly

sea12 wrote: »

They are progressing very well with clearing hedge and removing subsoil. They have 3 diggers clearing subsoil and a line of trucks to clear it. Some contrast to the approach last Jan in phase 1. Allot of phase 1 has now being dig out and refilled with hardcore stone. Central concrete drainage is done for about a third of it. Good to see physical progress taking shape.

I'll guess that as the "Newbridge bypass" section was built later than the "Naas bypass" that it was more future proofed with a road base put under the top layer of soil.

His name escapes me, but there was someone in kildare cc that took into account possible future expansion when planning major road schemes thus land and sub structure is in place. Naas section was built years before he was there

Edit - it was Joe kelly and he's one of the key people on the upgrade.

rameire

I was driving the M7 on Friday from the Jn 15 and then into the roadworks section. so put the cruise control on at 62. not to long afterwards nearly got plowed by a TK max truck, and two Dublin Coach Buses.
the coaches had no intention on slowing down from their speed which I assume was around 90.
I hope Dublin Coach have a stockpile ready for all the speeding fines they are to get from monday.
The majority of vehicles didnt slow down, but there were a good few who did.
as for the works, its starting to look good.
They were pouring the cement drains, and shaving the bushes.

pad199207

Since Naas has Naas North as J9 and Naas South for J10 , will the new junction 9a be for Naas West?

veryangryman

pad199207 wrote: »

Since Naas has Naas North as J9 and Naas South for J10 , will the new junction 9a be for Naas West?

Based on cellbridge west junction...id imagine it will start with a letter, then when TII do a refresh all numbers will be realigned

kooga

Any idea why major infrastructure work such as this can't go 24 hours a day - seems an awful long time to take to widen a road - and out of comparison would such a project be 24 hour elsewhere internationally ? Thank you

CeilingFly

kooga wrote: »

Any idea why major infrastructure work such as this can't go 24 hours a day - seems an awful long time to take to widen a road - and out of comparison would such a project be 24 hour elsewhere internationally ? Thank you

Most works like this, even internationally, take place 7am to 7pm.

After that and you're into all sorts of other issues including noise for residents (noise travels further at night), separate management teams and also sourcing all the relevant workers with the relevant skills for a nighttime shift. In the end, time saving would be minimal.

There is a 138 page EIS that goes into all the pros and cons and it said it was not feasible.

Even the infamous Boston Big Dig did not have regular nighttime or weekend work.

marno21

pad199207 wrote: »

Since Naas has Naas North as J9 and Naas South for J10 , will the new junction 9a be for Naas West?

J9 R445 Naas North
J9a R407 Sallins
J10 R445 Naas South/Newbridge

harr

rameire wrote: »

I was driving the M7 on Friday from the Jn 15 and then into the roadworks section. so put the cruise control on at 62. not to long afterwards nearly got plowed by a TK max truck, and two Dublin Coach Buses.
the coaches had no intention on slowing down from their speed which I assume was around 90.
I hope Dublin Coach have a stockpile ready for all the speeding fines they are to get from monday.
The majority of vehicles didnt slow down, but there were a good few who did.
as for the works, its starting to look good.
They were pouring the cement drains, and shaving the bushes.

It can be deadly, I was on that stretch last week and it had two speed checks on it so have kept to 60 since.
Had a huge tanker on Wednesday flashing his lights behind me to move faster because he couldn’t get into overtaking lane because of all the others tipping along at about 100kph

spacetweek

rameire wrote: »

I was driving the M7 on Friday from the Jn 15 and then into the roadworks section. so put the cruise control on at 62. not to long afterwards nearly got plowed by a TK max truck, and two Dublin Coach Buses.
the coaches had no intention on slowing down from their speed which I assume was around 90.

F*** them. Stick to your guns - they're breaking the law.

Drove it today Dublin-bound. Was surprised that speed wasn't too bad. I kept to 70 and everyone else was doing the same. However near the east end of Naas it speeded way up to 90/100.

MrDerp

I was driving the M4 in England once a week a few years ago when they were doing a resurfacing. A couple of notes:
1. It wasn't 24 hour and it operated and looked a lot like the current M7 works.
2. Speed averaging cameras were used, and worked, but were set at 50mph.
3. The lanes were more narrowed - they burnt off all existing lanes and put down temporary orange markings. I think this focuses the mind somewhat.

Naturally here we have an unenforced 60 in the hope that people think ah sure 80 will be fine. The problem is that the lanes are perfectly driveable at 100, but that the running lanes aren't the actual safety issue, it's worker safety and access. An enforced 80 (with speed average cameras) and narrowed lanes would improve compliance and safety.

loyatemu

I was on it last week and thought 80 would be a reasonable limit given the layout - I tried doing 60 and felt unsafe as most of the other traffic barrelled past me doing 100+.

OldMrBrennan83

loyatemu wrote: »

I was on it last week and thought 80 would be a reasonable limit given the layout - I tried doing 60 and felt unsafe as most of the other traffic barrelled past me doing 100+.

It's the 100+ that's unsafe part of that scenario, not the 60.

CeilingFly

loyatemu wrote: »

I was on it last week and thought 80 would be a reasonable limit given the layout - I tried doing 60 and felt unsafe as most of the other traffic barrelled past me doing 100+.

and that's the problem - they put up an impossible limit of 60kmh MAX and 99% of motorists ignore it because its simply STUPID.

Put a 80kmh limit and you'll find most motorist will respect it because its more reasonable.

Some jobsworth fool insisted on this limit and the relevant people just went with it despite most of the managers and the gardai accepting that it was a limit that could not be enforced.

loyatemu

the other alternative is that they physically slow the traffic down using narrower lanes and chicanes.

serfboard

CeilingFly wrote: »

gardai accepting that it was a limit that could not be enforced.

Yep - you'll find that the Gardai are very reluctant to enforce laws/rules that the vast majority of the population disagree with - thus making them unenforceable. And that's the reson that GoSafe are being brought in.

CeilingFly wrote: »

they put up an impossible limit of 60kmh MAX and 99% of motorists ignore it because its simply STUPID.

Put a 80kmh limit and you'll find most motorist will respect it because its more reasonable.

I can confirm that with an experience from Co. Galway - Claregalway to be exact. When new bus lanes went in, a 50kmh limit was put in place - which 95% of drivers broke. The limit was increased to 60kmh and now 95% of drivers observe it. (disclaimer: Percentages may not be exact

)

So the solution is either to change the speed limit, or if they really want to keep it, to:

loyatemu wrote: »

physically slow the traffic down using narrower lanes and chicanes.

_Kaiser_

Deedsie wrote: »

Surely it is a health and safety consideration for the staff working on the site?

Big thick concrete/metal barriers separating them from the traffic. No reason whatsoever that 80 km/h couldn't be the limit except that someone submitted it as 60 km/h and now someone else can't be arsed re-filing the paperwork to change it.

60 km/h is too slow for the current level of works on the site. If they reduce it to a single lane and it's at night (as I've seen them do), then fair enough.

Otherwise people just ignore it completely and instead of a sensible pace, you get idiots barreling through at 100+. Most people will instinctively obey a sensible limit. For those who still act the clown there's AGS.

CeilingFly

Deedsie wrote: »

Surely it is a health and safety consideration for the staff working on the site?

Barriers in place can withstand a collision of 120kmh. They are the same barriers used in the Uk and the limits there are 50mph/60mph (approx. 80kmh/100kmh) during roadworks

Sam Russell

CeilingFly wrote: »

Barriers in place can withstand a collision of 120kmh. They are the same barriers used in the Uk and the limits there are 50mph/60mph (approx. 80kmh/100kmh) during roadworks

.. but the UK uses average speed cameras with enforcement. We do not do any of this.

Kamili

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Big thick concrete/metal barriers separating them from the traffic. No reason whatsoever that 80 km/h couldn't be the limit except that someone submitted it as 60 km/h and now someone else can't be arsed re-filing the paperwork to change it.

60 km/h is too slow for the current level of works on the site. If they reduce it to a single lane and it's at night (as I've seen them do), then fair enough.

Otherwise people just ignore it completely and instead of a sensible pace, you get idiots barreling through at 100+. Most people will instinctively obey a sensible limit. For those who still act the clown there's AGS.

barriers aren't in place throughout the length though, what about the entry exit points?
what if a car manages in some random act to zoom through those entry/exit points where there are no barriers at 120kph, or 80kph, imagine the carnage and loss of life it could cause. Car will stop a lot quicker from 60kph...

Hypothetically.

OldMrBrennan83

People will mostly do 20-30 over the limit so you'll just have them going 110 instead of 90 if its raised. Most Irish people just want to speed and the "shur it's a stupid limit anyway" is the lamest excuse of all time.

tails_naf

Can't get over how slow the widening section is to complete. I understand approx 1 year for this is alotted, but driving past this today, with the terrible traffic, and got plenty of time observe very little work, or indeed workers - clearly this could be done much faster, and bring some relief to the poor folks forced to drive / commute this daily.

CeilingFly

tails_naf wrote: »

Can't get over how slow the widening section is to complete. I understand approx 1 year for this is alotted, but driving past this today, with the terrible traffic, and got plenty of time observe very little work, or indeed workers - clearly this could be done much faster, and bring some relief to the poor folks forced to drive / commute this daily.

You must have passed at a bad time - I drive through it 4-6 times a day and was thinking they had added teams.

There were five ground clearance teams working on the new section and ground clearance is almost complete after just two weeks.

On the jct9 to jct10 section there were at least eight teams at work during the week - so that's at least 13 teams plus teams on jct10 works and new jct9a works and sallins bypass.

Maybe drive through a few times and you'll see a better picture.

Tarmac laying is commencing next week on jct9-jct10

Works start at 6.30-7am each day. A general break takes place at 11-12 for main teams. Subbies can work different hours. Main teams finish up 4-5.

Brasso

They were doing some work at Jct 9 this morning (3:30 am), had both lanes closed and traffic diverted over the flyover and than straight back around. The Jct 9-10 section looks to be progressing well now.

Avatar MIA

Patww79 wrote: »

People will mostly do 20-30 over the limit...

Including the Highway maintenance vans!

Chris_5339762

Average of about 80kmh when I came through at 830pm last evening. I was happy, settled in behind a lorry doing exactly 60kmh, and had two or three cars behind me doing the same.

Continuous queue of people passing me, but at least it wasn't stressy like it usually is.

Mantis Toboggan

Has anyone seen the speed vans yet?

Trampas

tails_naf wrote: »

Can't get over how slow the widening section is to complete. I understand approx 1 year for this is alotted, but driving past this today, with the terrible traffic, and got plenty of time observe very little work, or indeed workers - clearly this could be done much faster, and bring some relief to the poor folks forced to drive / commute this daily.

The 3 contractors got told to speed up a month or two ago. The widening was suppose to be finished first but other work was heading that way

CeilingFly

Trampas wrote: »

The 3 contractors got told to speed up a month or two ago. The widening was suppose to be finished first but other work was heading that way

Incorrect and again unsubstantiated pub talk. I can't understand why some people just love making up negative sh1te on stuff. As always it's always "I heard" or "someone told me"

No one tells contractors to "speed up".

Project is on time and has been on time at all times. And that's from the project manager in his interview with Rte 4 weeks ago - possibly still on podcast.

If it isn't delivered on time very substantial penalties apply.

harr

So was on M7 this morning driving my young lad to match in Naas obviously no work being done on a Saturday yet traffic was still backed up considerably and was particularly at a standstill at times. Madness for early Saturday morning traffic. No sign of speed vans

givyjoe

harr wrote: »

So was on M7 this morning driving my young lad to match in Naas obviously no work being done on a Saturday yet traffic was still backed up considerably and was particularly at a standstill at times. Madness for early Saturday morning traffic. No sign of speed vans

Where are they gonna put them though? Most of the stretch of roadworks doesn't leave any space unless they plonk the vans in the field or the middle of the road works.