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John Mc Cain

Pocaide

Sad news from the US of Senator John McCain's passing.

RIP

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Bradlin

Your Face wrote: »

He made great chips.

Doffs cap.

Arghus

Deleted User wrote: »

Such an American mindset, I've no idea how it creeped into Ireland. You're saying McCain was good because he was killing Vietnamese people, and Trump is bad because he didn't?

What? What are you on about man? That's not what I said at all. Trump as a defender of Vietnamese Civilian life, that's the best one ever!

I made no claims about the morality or lack thereof of the Vietnam War. If you actually want my personal opinion on it - as opposed to inferring it based on something I didn't actually say - then I think absolutely without question it was a morally unjustifiable war that should have never happened. You missed the point of what I was saying and added on some other stuff that I never went into.

My point was that Trump had referred to McCain as a coward. Now, whatever you may think about about the rights and wrongs of the war, I think McCain endured incredible punishment as a POW for many years and many men would not have been able to survive it. Do I think his conscience as a guy who dropped bombs should be squeaky clean, of course not. But I have a basic level of respect for him because he showed himself to be a tough bastard who didn't die in a situation where it would have been easier to quit. You can respect someone for something even if you don't agree with every other facet of them or even why they are doing that something in the first place. Life isn't always black and white you know.

And please stop trying to rewrite history to make it sound as if Trump was some sort of conscientious objector to the war. My arse! He didn't want to get killed, that's all! I can't necessarily blame him for that, it's pretty understandable really! But he used his family connections to worm his way out of facing any action and, given that, he should have the grace to not call people who did actually fight - whether it was morally justified or not - and suffer, cowards.

That's what I was saying with my post. Dial the rhetoric back a bit.

the_syco

Sal Butamol wrote: »

He backed the war in Bosnia and Kosovo, and supports arming groups with links to Bin Laden

Was this while Bin Laden was a CIA asset?

the_syco

Arghus wrote: »

My point was that Trump had referred to McCain as a coward. Now, whatever you may think about about the rights and wrongs of the war, I think McCain endured incredible punishment as a POW for many years and many men would not have been able to survive it. Do I think his conscience as a guy who dropped bombs should be squeaky clean, of course not. But I have a basic level of respect for him because he showed himself to be a tough bastard who didn't die in a situation where it would have been easier to quit. You can respect someone for something even if you don't agree with every other facet of them or even why they are doing that something in the first place. Life isn't always black and white you know.

Pissed me off seeing the draft dodger call McCain a coward.

[Deleted User]

Arghus wrote: »

What? What are you on about man? That's not what I said at all. Trump as a defender of Vietnamese Civilian life, that's the best one ever!

Best what ever? I never said that. Unfortunately, your wall of text follows that theme all the way through.

McCain was in Vietnam. Trump wasn't. I don't care for the reasons because I am Irish and I don't fetishise war or have any respect for soldiers. Nor do most Irish people I know. "Draft dodging" means nothing to me and is more of a plus than a minus, regardless of the reasons. America's homeland was not under attack and Vietnam was not like WWII.

You respect soldiers, and that's something that's been imported from America. That was my point. You also seem to give him a pass on the bad things he's done because you respect how tough he is. I don't agree with that or even understand the logic.

The rest of your post is glorifying strongmen and putting words in my mouth so I won't even quote it or respond to it. I don't care about McCain enough.

Lucy8080

I heard yesterday that he was refusing further treatment for his brain cancer. Today he died.

His wife put out a statement that included the words " He passed the way he lived , on his own terms, surrounded by the people he loved".

[Deleted User]

the_syco wrote: »

Pissed me off seeing the draft dodger call McCain a coward.

Disrespectful. Especially someone in his position.

Mc Cain had the last laugh. Obama and Bush will deliver speeches at his funeral and Trump isn't invited.

silverharp

one less war monger hack who could have started a nuclear war, hell just became a little less safe

Sad Professor

Horrible man. If there’s such a thing as a soul, his deserves no peace.

Tom Mann Centuria

Didn't like his politics, at all, but I hope he and his family has peace after fighting cancer, not a nice way to go.

Tipsy McSwagger

A shame as he was the only republican to stand up to the biggest threat in the history of the US, the Russian controller traitor Donald Trump.

elefant

Deleted User wrote: »

Best what ever? I never said that. Unfortunately, your wall of text follows that theme all the way through.

McCain was in Vietnam. Trump wasn't. I don't care for the reasons because I am Irish and I don't fetishise war or have any respect for soldiers. Nor do most Irish people I know. "Draft dodging" means nothing to me and is more of a plus than a minus, regardless of the reasons. America's homeland was not under attack and Vietnam was not like WWII.

You respect soldiers, and that's something that's been imported from America. That was my point. You also seem to give him a pass on the bad things he's done because you respect how tough he is. I don't agree with that or even understand the logic.

The rest of your post is glorifying strongmen and putting words in my mouth so I won't even quote it or respond to it. I don't care about McCain enough.

He's putting words in your mouth? Amazing!

Zebra3

Such a pity.

Why now, why not 60 years ago?

Another member of the US terror establishment living far too long.

spurious

Sal Butamol wrote:

His passing is no loss.

Everyone's passing is a loss.

Candyshell

Pa8301 wrote: »

Great response. We'll see how the US economy is going in a year's time when Trump's trade war really takes hold.

The trade war is a negotiating tactic, I predict world GDP increases as a result of it. As it will result in less tariffs and subsidies. Trump realises he can push the trade war further than his foes as the US economy can withstabd more strain. China and the EU will acquiesce in my opinion.

spindex

Such a shame, although he cheated death a fair few times. I always thought the lord would take him around Christmas time. May he rest in peace.
To quote the great man "Yippie-Ki-Yay, Motherf*cker"

TheShockmaster

RIP the hero of nakatomi plaza

Yipppee ki yay

FTA69

ClanofLams wrote: »

The above isn’t accurate but even if it were, the man has a wife, kids, grandkids,etc - his passing is certainly a loss to them.

Have a little decency.

Sorry you're wrong there, it is accurate. He once stood up and sang Bomb Iran to the theme of Barbara Ann and was a big cheerleader for the farce in Libya that put jihadis and slavers into power.

Raging_Ninja

RIP. An honest politician at a time where it appears there aren't very many. Even if you didn't agree with him, you knew where you stood with him.

Pac1Man

Yippee ki-yay Mr. McCain.

Galwayguy35

RIP

Seemed like a decent guy and an honest politician.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

A shame as he was the only republican to stand up to the biggest threat in the history of the US, the Russian controller traitor Donald Trump.

McCain was as much or more of a threat. Look at Libya and Syria even recently.

Annasopra

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Great man should have backed Sir Donald though.

Bollox to that. Trump treated him like dirt.

WoollyRedHat

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

I'm not going to deal with all of these given the time but just a few;

Afghanistan - toppling an Islamist regime that harboured the most deadly terrorists of all time, so terrible.

Libya - why couldn't we have just stood back and let the violence unfold, I mean that worked in Syria right?

Bosnia and Kosovo - so intervening to stop a genocide was a bad thing, got it.

Ukraine - yes those famous Ukrainian neo-nazi who are so strong they didn't manage to get into parliament in the last election.

You want to make complaints about a man's policy fine; you might want to do more than just regurgitating the usual 'USA bad' tropes.

Neocons like John Mc Cain don't do humatarian policies, especially ones that joke about bombing an entire country at a public gathering. That they might have their problems doesn't mitigate the agenda. Same bull**** was used to justify likes of Iraq, look how great the regions doing now.

Arghus

elefant wrote: »

He's putting words in your mouth? Amazing!

I know...

The ironing is delicious!

Plague Maiden

ClanofLams wrote: »

The above isn’t accurate but even if it were, the man has a wife, kids, grandkids,etc - his passing is certainly a loss to them.

Have a little decency.

And they'll be reading Boards.ie will they? Don't be ridiculous. Every noteworthy death doesn't need to be bookended with condolences and RIPs. I'd rather have 1000 people speaking their mind, however innacurate, than listening to some guy in Carlow offering his sympathies to the McCain family.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

I'm not going to deal with all of these given the time but just a few;

Afghanistan - toppling an Islamist regime that harboured the most deadly terrorists of all time, so terrible.

The taleban are still there. And osama bin laden wasn’t. He was hanging in a compound built by American ally Pakistan. And 18 of the hijackers were from American ally Saudi. The other was from American ally Egypt.

Libya - why couldn't we have just stood back and let the violence unfold, I mean that worked in Syria right?

The “we” is instructive here. You aren’t American. And if you were you still don’t have a fight right to invade either Libya or Syria on spurious human rights grounds. That’s a war crime without UN authorisation. Even more spurious because you are helping bomb Yemen at the same time.

And utterly stupid. This action destabilised Europe, as did the war against Assad.

Bosnia and Kosovo - so intervening to stop a genocide was a bad thing, got it.

I believe this was UN authorised so it’s ok. The US has gone crazier since 9/11.

Ukraine - yes those famous Ukrainian neo-nazi who are so strong they didn't manage to get into parliament in the last election.

They are still neo Nazis though.

You want to make complaints about a man's policy fine; you might want to do more than just regurgitating the usual 'USA bad' tropes.

Let’s not even talk about the genocide in Vietnam.

Franz Von Peppercorn

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Such an American mindset, I've no idea how it creeped into Ireland. You're saying McCain was good because he was killing Vietnamese people, and Trump is bad because he didn't?

The only Vietnam vet I respect comes back here for months every year practicing medicine for free. He has an enormous amount of guilt about what happened here and continually tries to help the country. McCain et al? "Lets' bomb more countries."

It’s extraordinary. Vietnam is now a good war.

But remember most of these guys will have seen American movies where (as frankie Boyle says) not only will Americans come over and kill your people, 20 years later they’ll come back with a film crew doing a movie about how hard the American soldiers had it.

Tipsy McSwagger

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

McCain was as much or more of a threat. Look at Libya and Syria even recently.

How is a Russian controlled draft dodging traitor less of a threat than someone who fought and did his best for his country?

Hector Bellend

thebull85 wrote: »

He went fairly quick after they stopped his treatment. RIP

Malignant brain tumours will do that to you.