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"safest level of drinking is none" - new study

mvl

So there is this study I am after reading about in The Guardian from an Institute of Health Metrics
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/aug/23/no-healthy-level-of-alcohol-consumption-says-major-study?

Intrigued about few things:
1. alcohol links to cancer in over 50, especially for women: 27.1% of cancer deaths in women and 18.9% in men over 50 were linked to their drinking habits.
2. while for younger persons doesn't seem to matter so much ?!? "younger people globally the biggest causes of death linked to alcohol were tuberculosis (1.4% of deaths), road injuries (1.2%), and self-harm (1.1%)." - interesting how TB is mentioned, but the countries that are in the top 5 are not supposedly having high incidence of TB
3. Ireland is not mentioned in the entire article
... could go on.

But I do wonder how reputable this institute is ... and since this is the first time I am seeing recommendations for measures that would reduce alcohol consumption, I do wonder if we could see in future "alcohol reduction acts" same as we have with tobacco now.
Your thoughts on this ?

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jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

retalivity

Ill drink what i want, smoke what i want and take what i want. It will help support another study tomorrow stating that the world is overpopulated and people are living too long.

Peatys

Sure what's the point then? Live long miserable life?
Fuk that.

Jim Bob Scratcher

Just in - Litre of whiskey a day will make you live longer

McMurphy

There was a woman lived a few houses up from us with her parents for years, died at 35.

Cancer took her, and I watched it take her, I noticed she was looking gaunt and pale weeks (months actually) before she broke the news that she had been diagnosed with terminal cancer. I watched her steadyily waste away - how she slowly progessively declined - right from losing weight to reluctantly giving up work then becoming less mobile/wheelchair bound.

35.

She neither smoked nor drank, wasn't married, didn't even have a boyfriend, you know what lads, I'd guess the poor girl was never even rode, but there you go - cancer claimed her.

Tldr.

Cancer doesn't give a fcuk whether you smoke/drink/eat fatty foods or anything else. Everything in moderation they say.

When your time is up its time to go. Simple as that.

s7ryf3925pivug

It's published in a reputable journal. This is the most credible source of information available.

It's not hugely surprising to hear alcohol seems to be a greater health concern than previously thought. Skepticism with this seems more likely to be because the news is unwelcome, rather than unlikely or lacking credibility.

s7ryf3925pivug

Getting cancer is like winning the lottery. Everybody gets tickets. Your genes might mean you get more or less tickets than others. What you expose yourself to in day to day life can give you additional tickets, or cancel some of them. We know some of the things that add or remove tickets but not all of them. But one way or another we all have tickets... sometimes people win the lottery even if they don't buy lots of tickets.

JMNolan

Who could have guessed that Demolition Man would have best predicted our future?

McMurphy

Shiloh Rancid Tumor wrote: »

It's published in a reputable journal. This is the most credible source of information available.

It's not hugely surprising to hear alcohol seems to be a greater health concern than previously thought. Skepticism with this seems more likely to be because the news is unwelcome, rather than unlikely or lacking credibility.

No one doubts the credibility of the journal and the authors behind it, no less than they might doubt similar journals or studys that tell us a daily glass of red wine or beer is good for your heart.

This journal tells us the safest level of drinking is not to drink.

Cancer doesn't kill ye, the heart will so?

Sure the lad driving the 48A might have a coughing fit and crash through the barrier of the flyover and die. Along with the 34 other passengers on board.

Atlantic Dawn

Should the wine at mass now be replaced with TK Red Lemonade?

s7ryf3925pivug

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

No one doubts the credibility of the journal and the authors behind it, no less than they might doubt similar journals or studys that tell us a daily glass of red wine or beer is good for your heart.

This journal tells us the safest level of drinking is not to drink.

Cancer doesn't kill ye, the heart will so?

Sure the lad.driving the 48A might have a coughing fit and crash through the barrier of the flyover and die. Along with the 34 other passengers on board.

Doubt of its credibility is expressed in the OP

I understand that the benefits of alcohol in avoiding heart disease are greatly exaggerated.

We're all going to die. You might not even last til the end of this post. It's not really relevant though. People generally live much longer now than a couple of hundred years ago because we've increased our knowledge about how to stay healthy and alive. Some people die young in unforeseeable or unavoidable ways. One point does not negate the other.

Malayalam

Hadn't heard about the study in the OP but was genuinely surprised yesterday to hear on car radio that a study has shown that boys who drink 7 units of alcohol weekly between 15 and 19 years of age, which is not all that much really (is it?), are THREE TIMES more likely to develop the aggressive form of prostate cancer (the one that is very hard to treat). I found that quite shocking actually.
I drink very rarely but do use a bottle of red once in a blue moon to get consciously drunk. :pac: It is undoubtedly a strong drug. It has positive and negative applications. All substances have inherent toxicity at certain doses for the individual, medicinal plants tell us that. Regular food also. If these studies have merit and are supported by further work people may have to eventually acknowledge that alcohol is indeed strong medicine.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/young-male-drinkers-may-face-increased-risk-of-aggressive-prostate-cancer-1.3605521

JohnnyFlash

Plenty of cognitive dissonance going on in this thread already. The ‘sure didn’t I know a lad who drank 10 pints a day, smoked 40 woodbine, installed asbestos for a living, and lived until he was 97’ sort of stuff. Using it as a way of mentally objectifying their own patterns of behaviour.

There’s absolutely no reason to doubt the veracity of this study. Ethanol is a poison. And while some of the Irish might have replaced the binge drinking at the weekend with the bottle of wine a night, there’s no doubt that we have major issues around how much and why we drink.

mvl

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Plenty of cognitive dissonance going on in this thread already. The ‘sure didn’t I know a lad who drank 10 pints a day, smoked 40 woodbine, installed asbestos for a living, and lived until he was 97’ sort of stuff. Using it as a way of mentally objectifying their own patterns of behaviour.

There’s absolutely no reason to doubt the veracity of this study. Ethanol is a poison. And while some of the Irish might have replaced the binge drinking at the weekend with the bottle of wine a night, there’s no doubt that we have major issues around how much and why we drink.

question was about the institute being reputable, not the newspaper - its called Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) - an independent global health research center at the University of Washington ...

later edit - how silly of me: institute appears to be linked to the Gates foundation.

- and have to say was also surprised to see that Irish drinking habits didn't get on the top 10 - except for the female highest number of drinks

http://www.healthdata.org/news-release/new-scientific-study-no-safe-level-alcohol

freshpopcorn

I was expecting it to be a survey carried out by Dr Ciara Kelly.

McMurphy

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Plenty of cognitive dissonance going on in this thread already. The ‘sure didn’t I know a lad who drank 10 pints a day, smoked 40 woodbine, installed asbestos for a living, and lived until he was 97’ sort of stuff. Using it as a way of mentally objectifying their own patterns of behaviour.

There’s absolutely no reason to doubt the veracity of this study. Ethanol is a poison. And while some of the Irish might have replaced the binge drinking at the weekend with the bottle of wine a night, there’s no doubt that we have major issues around how much and why we drink.

You might be getting confused with how the article is basically saying ANY form of alcohol consumption is bad - period.

Others (and myself included) point out to apparent health benefits from alcohol - but it's moderation that's key.

Who in under jaysis thinks the lad in the sleeping bag down the quays with a can of Linden Village super cider is looking healthier than their 64 year old mother in law who does Pilates/hill climbing and enjoys a glass of shiraz with her evening meal from time to time?

Moderation.

Too much of anything can kill ya.

Atlantic Dawn

And next week some study will say a glass of wine a day cures knob rot, they are making it up as they go along.

FurBabyMomma

And on the other hand, the British Medical Journal recently published a study saying that abstaining from alcohol increases your risk of dementia :

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/08/01/middle-aged-drinking-may-reduce-dementia-risk-new-study-finds1/amp/

You can't win really.

Edit: FWIW I wouldn't be a big drinker. I just don't like the all or nothing approach over moderation.

Dtp1979

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

And next week some study will say a glass of wine a day cures knob rot, they are making it up as they go along.

No they’re not. There’s millions being spent on studies into cancer research. I thought it was common knowledge that alcohol increased your chances of cancer. Same as smoking etc.

razorblunt

Safest way to cross the road is to not cross the road too.

Drumpot

It’s funny reading all the deluesional reactions to this report. Irish people in particular have such a culturaly unhealthy relationship with alcohol that they will always look to excuse anything negative towards the substance.

I work in insurance and while a lot of illnesses are gene related it doesn’t mean drinking or smoking doesn’t affect your mortality. Some genes won’t be affected by over drinking as much as others but all people with all genes will be affected negatively, it’s just to different degrees.

When you apply for insurance you pay more as a smoker or if you drink in an unhealthy manner. There are multiple ways you can get fatty livers but binge drinking is one of them. This could cost you more for insurance.

So why does that matter? Insurance companies charge you more because statistically speaking you are more likely to claim on the policy if you do certain things or don’t take care of yourself (including drinking or smoking).

When I goto insurance seminars and they just talk of people as numbers , statistics, it’s frightening how often people get sick and how our behaviors do make a difference. People either don’t want to believe or know that their behaviors can make them ill.

I have no skin in the game on this thread and I know this will not be a popular post. But alcohol is dangerous on many levels if you don’t drink naturally drink carefully and in a balanced manner.

Most things in life are fine in moderation. I think if you follow that mantra you will usually be ok. The problem Can be that people have different views on what is moderate. If you are drinking with heavy drinkers you might be moderate in that group but still have a bad habit.

Incidentally when I see these sort of science studies come out I usually wonder where the backing for the studies came from. Dig deep enough and most of these things are prob commissioned by the alcohol industry to find the “right” results....

SeaFields

Injuries and violence seem to be included too -possibly as to why the stats have changed? I'm probably not going to get hit by a car or start a fight with a random stranger while having a bottle of beer watching netflix of a Friday night at home so I think I'll just carry on as before.

mvl

Dtp1979 wrote: »

No they’re not. There’s millions being spent on studies into cancer research. I thought it was common knowledge that alcohol increased your chances of cancer. Same as smoking etc.

I guess I would have not imagined women cancers can be linked to alcohol.
- with smoking its easier to make an association I guess.

eagle eye

The reaction to the article in this thread suggests that there is a major alcohol problem with the posters.

Badly Drunk Boy

Peatys wrote: »

Sure what's the point then? Live long miserable life?
Fuk that.

I remember reading Gulliver's Travels years ago, and one of the non-fun parts of the story that is always left out of the cartoon versions or Disney-type live action versions is Gulliver's visit to the island of Luggnagg. Here, certain people (called Struldbrugs) are immortal, but they don't have eternal youth. They just keep on getting older for eternity, suffering all the negative conditions of old age. They are declared legally dead at the age of 80, even though they're immortal.

McMurphy

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I was expecting it to be a survey carried out by Dr Ciara Kelly.

I was expecting it to have been carried out by the VFI with the added twist that it was only alcohol sold from supermarket off sales that had the cancer toxins.

Malayalam

mvl wrote: »

I guess I would have not imagined women cancers can be linked to alcohol.
- with smoking its easier to make an association I guess.

It's kind of obvious though in some ways. Throughout our history humans have had moderate intakes of substances - food, herbs, etc. - and then quite rare intake of certain special substances - stimulants, intoxicants - sometimes due to lack of availability (seasonal things etc.) but also because altered states of consciousness were ritualised. Even tobacco stimulates altered states. That's the default setting for the species. Now we have access to almost everything, all the time, in almost any amount we want. And we effectively binge. On sugar, on bread, on alcohol, on tobacco. There is nothing in the least bit ceremonial or conscious about our intake of anything - we are like great mouths moving through the world seeking pleasure constantly. And we see the results in ourselves and all around us in the species.

Peatys

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Should the wine at mass now be replaced with TK Red Lemonade?

It's replaced with blood.

super_furry

With all due respect, in the most unparliamentary language, f**k you new study! F**k you!

Peatys

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

I remember reading Gulliver's Travels years ago, and one of the non-fun parts of the story that is always left out of the cartoon versions or Disney-type live action versions is Gulliver's visit to the island of Luggnagg. Here, certain people (called Struldbrugs) are immortal, but they don't have eternal youth. They just keep on getting older for eternity, suffering all the negative conditions of old age. They are declared legally dead at the age of 80, even though they're immortal.

Nearly as bad as the promise of eternal life with your loved ones in heaven.

I can't even stand them for two days over Christmas!