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NEW 2018 Assistant Principal Officer Competition

bobbysands81

Good luck everyone!

https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/?option=com_jobsearch&view=jobdetails&cid=94163

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never_mind

Aitor wrote: »

I’d managed teams of up to 15 people, mainly in SMEs. I’d also worked in a semi-state, so the policy/political side wasn’t unknown to me. To be honest, I think expressing an interest in a given area, showing you’ve done some research, and talking knowledgeably would suffice for the interview.

The CS is a good employer, and the team I’m on is great. Yes, it is more bureaucratic than the private sector, and yes it can be difficult to move quickly. But the work matters, and isn’t just about the bottom line.

My one gripe is how needlessly difficult it is to move into a Department you’re interested in.

I have been working in education (third level) for ten years in various teaching/admin roles. I am going to do the Irish stream as well as I speak it. I wouldn't have managed people before but am a current AO - do you think I would have zero chance?

Aitor

duffman13 wrote: »

What level of experience did you have in the private sector? I've tonnes of management experience but would likely lack in the policy aspects of it which is what's holding me back somewhat. I'm into current affairs and have some health policy experience from the user end of the spectrum.

How do you find the difference since moving?

I’d managed teams of up to 15 people, mainly in SMEs. I’d also worked in a semi-state, so the policy/political side wasn’t unknown to me. To be honest, I think expressing an interest in a given area, showing you’ve done some research, and talking knowledgeably would suffice for the interview.

The CS is a good employer, and the team I’m on is great. Yes, it is more bureaucratic than the private sector, and yes it can be difficult to move quickly. But the work matters, and isn’t just about the bottom line.

My one gripe is how needlessly difficult it is to move into a Department you’re interested in.

Aitor

JAPhys wrote: »

If both Dublin and Kildare were filled and they were next on the panel perhaps?

Regardless it is even more ridiculous that someone below them would get a position and they wouldn't, simply because in the Russian roulette system they selected what they wanted rather than what was most probable and perhaps unsuitable.

Really appreciate the offer of advice- I suppose my only really pressing concern is how to learn the exact ins and outs of the job on a day to day basis? I appreciate it will vary greatly from each department/role to the next, but what would a typical day actually involve in the real world? Is there much actual management of people involved or is the position more about seniority and having team members to call upon for input or delegation of tasks?

TIA

I had zero experience in the work of my Department, but to be honest that hasn’t proven to be a massive issue. HEOs tend to have a lot of domain knowledge, but they want someone to make a call based on the information available, and stand over that. I also feel that the CS management often overlooks the development of EOs and HEOs - if you ask them where they want to go in life and help them move towards that goal, it’ll be appreciated.

duffman13

Aitor wrote: »

It is a silly system, but I’m pretty certain that in the scenario you outlined above, the Dublin person (assuming they picked Dublin or Kildare) would only be assigned there. They’d have to wait until a place became vacant. They couldn’t be sent to Kerry.

I actually came into the CS on an AP panel in the last competition, so happy to answer any questions I can about the experience of an external candidate.

What level of experience did you have in the private sector? I've tonnes of management experience but would likely lack in the policy aspects of it which is what's holding me back somewhat. I'm into current affairs and have some health policy experience from the user end of the spectrum.

How do you find the difference since moving?

JAPhys

Aitor wrote: »

It is a silly system, but I’m pretty certain that in the scenario you outlined above, the Dublin person (assuming they picked Dublin or Kildare) would only be assigned there. They’d have to wait until a place became vacant. They couldn’t be sent to Kerry.

I actually came into the CS on an AP panel in the last competition, so happy to answer any questions I can about the experience of an external candidate.

If both Dublin and Kildare were filled and they were next on the panel perhaps?

Regardless it is even more ridiculous that someone below them would get a position and they wouldn't, simply because in the Russian roulette system they selected what they wanted rather than what was most probable and perhaps unsuitable.

Really appreciate the offer of advice- I suppose my only really pressing concern is how to learn the exact ins and outs of the job on a day to day basis? I appreciate it will vary greatly from each department/role to the next, but what would a typical day actually involve in the real world? Is there much actual management of people involved or is the position more about seniority and having team members to call upon for input or delegation of tasks?

TIA

WAW

Ravelleman wrote: »

Given the scale of reform (project/change management) underway in AGS, it would strike me as a great area to have experience in.

Thanks. That's where I'm headed any day now AGS so was getting a bit worried not to have had Revenue experience for applying for APO competition!

Aitor

JAPhys wrote: »

Can anyone shed any light on why the crazy system of picking 2 locations?

Lets say candidate A is from Kerry. They made a wise decision to put Dublin and Kildare in their 2 choices as they believe they are the most probable locations there will be positions (They would love to remain in Kerry but they don't like the odds of it having a position). They actually top the selection process, are placed first on the panel, and end up working in Dublin.

Candidate B is from Dublin but places cuch lower on the panel. They want to remain in Dublin so also put Dublin and Kildare as their choices. However due to all the country candidates who hedged their bets (and didn't want to be placed in Dublin) they are left with no option other than to head to Kerry.

Two candidates end up 4 hours away from where they wanted, completely without necessity.

Is there an incredibly well thought out reason behind the scenes for this that has gone completely over my head because it seems like a ridiculous system to me- even without mentioning the notion of having no input as to what appointment/department etc you may actually like

It is a silly system, but I’m pretty certain that in the scenario you outlined above, the Dublin person (assuming they picked Dublin or Kildare) would only be assigned there. They’d have to wait until a place became vacant. They couldn’t be sent to Kerry.

I actually came into the CS on an AP panel in the last competition, so happy to answer any questions I can about the experience of an external candidate.

Ravelleman

WAW wrote: »

Thanks for that. Is it best to have had experience in Revenue instead of say AGS for the AP competition then?

Given the scale of reform (project/change management) underway in AGS, it would strike me as a great area to have experience in.

Tauriel

Do you have to choose two locations or can you just put down the one?

WAW

ThumbTaxed wrote: »

The CS mobility scheme allows you to transfer from one CS office to another. It was only just introduced for CO and EO grades. It is envisaged that APs will be added to it eventually once they work out the problems.

Expect a lot of outward movement from places like Revenue to other places as I believe you are actually expected to have some skills in the former. Won't change unless they reintroduce a pay differential[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that. Is it best to have had experience in Revenue instead of say AGS for the AP competition then?

ThumbTaxed

llcolj wrote: »

What is that CS mobility app exactly?

The CS mobility scheme allows you to transfer from one CS office to another. It was only just introduced for CO and EO grades. It is envisaged that APs will be added to it eventually once they work out the problems.[/quote]

Expect a lot of outward movement from places like Revenue to other places as I believe you are actually expected to have some skills in the former. Won't change unless they reintroduce a pay differential

llcolj

What is that CS mobility app exactly?[/quote]

The CS mobility scheme allows you to transfer from one CS office to another. It was only just introduced for CO and EO grades. It is envisaged that APs will be added to it eventually once they work out the problems.

WAW

Does anybody know how many positions for AP (currently serving) are in Clare, Limerick, Galway areas? I need to pick two of these and trying to decide between Limerick and Galway. Are there even more than a handful in Clare?

What is that CS mobility app exactly?

JAPhys

Can anyone shed any light on why the crazy system of picking 2 locations?

Lets say candidate A is from Kerry. They made a wise decision to put Dublin and Kildare in their 2 choices as they believe they are the most probable locations there will be positions (They would love to remain in Kerry but they don't like the odds of it having a position). They actually top the selection process, are placed first on the panel, and end up working in Dublin.

Candidate B is from Dublin but places cuch lower on the panel. They want to remain in Dublin so also put Dublin and Kildare as their choices. However due to all the country candidates who hedged their bets (and didn't want to be placed in Dublin) they are left with no option other than to head to Kerry.

Two candidates end up 4 hours away from where they wanted, completely without necessity.

Is there an incredibly well thought out reason behind the scenes for this that has gone completely over my head because it seems like a ridiculous system to me- even without mentioning the notion of having no input as to what appointment/department etc you may actually like

Skip13

llcolj wrote: »

1. The civil service mobility map might be helpful in deciding on which region to choose:

https://dper.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=83eb12efc9c7478a982d39a89f759663

But I imagine most AP vacancies will be based in Dublin.

Publicjobs has some info on the work of APs but it will vary from Dept to Dept.

2. In previous competitions Stage 2 was assessment tests done again in Abbey Street along with an eTray exercise. But it seems that they have skipped this stage and they are shortlisting to whittle the numbers down. Who knows?

I think your both correct before the supervised test they rank people by qualifications & experience and your oom might change but we have to get through stage 1.

llcolj

JAPhys wrote: »

Hi all,

This is my first post but I have been following the 2016 Assistant Principal Officer Competition thread for some time and found it very useful. Some of you seem to have a great knowledge of the whole process and I am hoping some of my questions might have straight forward simple answers for some of you. I am working in the private sector so please forgive any lack of procedural knowledge I may have- you don't know what you don't know! I hope it is ok to start with 2 questions-

1) Can anyone provide some advice of how to gauge selection of regions on the application? Is there a way of finding out what the establishment is for AP roles in particular departments prior to application?

2) It would seem to me that the order of the selection process has changed from the last competition in so far as the interview would seem to now come before the work sample test. Does that seem correct to the rest of you in the know?

TIA

1. The civil service mobility map might be helpful in deciding on which region to choose:

https://dper.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=83eb12efc9c7478a982d39a89f759663

But I imagine most AP vacancies will be based in Dublin.

Publicjobs has some info on the work of APs but it will vary from Dept to Dept.

2. In previous competitions Stage 2 was assessment tests done again in Abbey Street along with an eTray exercise. But it seems that they have skipped this stage and they are shortlisting to whittle the numbers down. Who knows?

JAPhys

Hi all,

This is my first post but I have been following the 2016 Assistant Principal Officer Competition thread for some time and found it very useful. Some of you seem to have a great knowledge of the whole process and I am hoping some of my questions might have straight forward simple answers for some of you. I am working in the private sector so please forgive any lack of procedural knowledge I may have- you don't know what you don't know! I hope it is ok to start with 2 questions-

1) Can anyone provide some advice of how to gauge selection of regions on the application? Is there a way of finding out what the establishment is for AP roles in particular departments prior to application?

2) It would seem to me that the order of the selection process has changed from the last competition in so far as the interview would seem to now come before the work sample test. Does that seem correct to the rest of you in the know?

TIA

llcolj

never_mind wrote: »

Do you wonder if they actually read them?

The interview is based around the 4 competencies on the form, so the interview panel at least will read them. You can if you wish pick new examples on the day but it is more hassle.

Skip13

Ravelleman wrote: »

It is the number of people reporting to you, if any.

Thanks

Riskymove

Skip13 wrote: »

A question for you all (sorry I'm a bit thick) in the Q! in the addition questions what does "Specific your number of direct reports". Is it who you were reporting to (level) or the number of stakeholders etc ....

how many people reported to you

Ravelleman

Skip13 wrote: »

A question for you all (sorry I'm a bit thick) in the Q! in the addition questions what does "Specific your number of direct reports". Is it who you were reporting to (level) or the number of stakeholders etc ....

It is the number of people reporting to you, if any.

Ravelleman

Skip13 wrote: »

They do read them to ensure you have the basic qualifications and indication of basic requirements. Before the online tests

Yes, in some internal competitions they use the 'Additional Questions' section as a filter before selecting people for competency-based interviews.

The shortlisting process described in the booklet seems to be some combination of test scores and experience.

Skip13

A question for you all (sorry I'm a bit thick) in the Q! in the addition questions what does "Specific your number of direct reports". Is it who you were reporting to (level) or the number of stakeholders etc ....

Skip13

annamosullivan wrote: »

Hello, are there any good books/websites out there to help us prepare for the aptitude tests/e-trays, etc for this role? Thanks

I suggest SHL Website

Skip13

never_mind wrote: »

Do you wonder if they actually read them?

They do read them to ensure you have the basic qualifications and indication of basic requirements. Before the online tests

bobbysands81

ThumbTaxed wrote: »

Sorry to disappoint but I am beyond that level

That response makes absolutely no sense.

tea and coffee

relax carry on wrote: »

God I sincerely hope not or that's just another nail in coffin for my faith in humanity.

He means retired. Or maybe beyond the grave....

relax carry on

ThumbTaxed wrote: »

Sorry to disappoint but I am beyond that level

God I sincerely hope not or that's just another nail in coffin for my faith in humanity.

1100010110

ThumbTaxed wrote: »

I think those who pick up on typos on a forum as a stick to best another with is basically lacking wit. Good luck with the job, you'll probably come 999th and get promotion anyway and be a hindrance to your employer.

You make me smile thumbtaxed

ThumbTaxed

1100010110 wrote: »

ThumbTaxed wrote: »

The interdependantal route.

In other words... The loser route

1. Excuse yourself.
2. Explain yourself.
3. What is the interdependantal route?
4. AP level is removed from operational, discuss.
5. Have you heard about modernisation?

I think those who pick up on typos on a forum as a stick to best another with is basically lacking wit. Good luck with the job, you'll probably come 999th and get promotion anyway and be a hindrance to your employer.