JAPhys wrote: » Hi all, This is my first post but I have been following the 2016 Assistant Principal Officer Competition thread for some time and found it very useful. Some of you seem to have a great knowledge of the whole process and I am hoping some of my questions might have straight forward simple answers for some of you. I am working in the private sector so please forgive any lack of procedural knowledge I may have- you don't know what you don't know! I hope it is ok to start with 2 questions- 1) Can anyone provide some advice of how to gauge selection of regions on the application? Is there a way of finding out what the establishment is for AP roles in particular departments prior to application? 2) It would seem to me that the order of the selection process has changed from the last competition in so far as the interview would seem to now come before the work sample test. Does that seem correct to the rest of you in the know? TIA
llcolj wrote: » 1. The civil service mobility map might be helpful in deciding on which region to choose:https://dper.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=83eb12efc9c7478a982d39a89f759663 But I imagine most AP vacancies will be based in Dublin. Publicjobs has some info on the work of APs but it will vary from Dept to Dept. 2. In previous competitions Stage 2 was assessment tests done again in Abbey Street along with an eTray exercise. But it seems that they have skipped this stage and they are shortlisting to whittle the numbers down. Who knows?
llcolj wrote: » What is that CS mobility app exactly?
ThumbTaxed wrote: » The CS mobility scheme allows you to transfer from one CS office to another. It was only just introduced for CO and EO grades. It is envisaged that APs will be added to it eventually once they work out the problems.
WAW wrote: » Thanks for that. Is it best to have had experience in Revenue instead of say AGS for the AP competition then?
JAPhys wrote: » Can anyone shed any light on why the crazy system of picking 2 locations? Lets say candidate A is from Kerry. They made a wise decision to put Dublin and Kildare in their 2 choices as they believe they are the most probable locations there will be positions (They would love to remain in Kerry but they don't like the odds of it having a position). They actually top the selection process, are placed first on the panel, and end up working in Dublin. Candidate B is from Dublin but places cuch lower on the panel. They want to remain in Dublin so also put Dublin and Kildare as their choices. However due to all the country candidates who hedged their bets (and didn't want to be placed in Dublin) they are left with no option other than to head to Kerry. Two candidates end up 4 hours away from where they wanted, completely without necessity. Is there an incredibly well thought out reason behind the scenes for this that has gone completely over my head because it seems like a ridiculous system to me- even without mentioning the notion of having no input as to what appointment/department etc you may actually like
Ravelleman wrote: » Given the scale of reform (project/change management) underway in AGS, it would strike me as a great area to have experience in.
Aitor wrote: » It is a silly system, but I’m pretty certain that in the scenario you outlined above, the Dublin person (assuming they picked Dublin or Kildare) would only be assigned there. They’d have to wait until a place became vacant. They couldn’t be sent to Kerry. I actually came into the CS on an AP panel in the last competition, so happy to answer any questions I can about the experience of an external candidate.
JAPhys wrote: » If both Dublin and Kildare were filled and they were next on the panel perhaps? Regardless it is even more ridiculous that someone below them would get a position and they wouldn't, simply because in the Russian roulette system they selected what they wanted rather than what was most probable and perhaps unsuitable. Really appreciate the offer of advice- I suppose my only really pressing concern is how to learn the exact ins and outs of the job on a day to day basis? I appreciate it will vary greatly from each department/role to the next, but what would a typical day actually involve in the real world? Is there much actual management of people involved or is the position more about seniority and having team members to call upon for input or delegation of tasks? TIA
duffman13 wrote: » What level of experience did you have in the private sector? I've tonnes of management experience but would likely lack in the policy aspects of it which is what's holding me back somewhat. I'm into current affairs and have some health policy experience from the user end of the spectrum. How do you find the difference since moving?
Aitor wrote: » I’d managed teams of up to 15 people, mainly in SMEs. I’d also worked in a semi-state, so the policy/political side wasn’t unknown to me. To be honest, I think expressing an interest in a given area, showing you’ve done some research, and talking knowledgeably would suffice for the interview. The CS is a good employer, and the team I’m on is great. Yes, it is more bureaucratic than the private sector, and yes it can be difficult to move quickly. But the work matters, and isn’t just about the bottom line. My one gripe is how needlessly difficult it is to move into a Department you’re interested in.
never_mind wrote: » I have been working in education (third level) for ten years in various teaching/admin roles. I am going to do the Irish stream as well as I speak it. I wouldn't have managed people before but am a current AO - do you think I would have zero chance?
gerrybbadd wrote: » You wouldn't have managed staff perhaps, but you'll have managed the kids you taught. Think of management like a cross. You manage up (your own managers), across both sides (your peers of equal standing), and below (your staff). But not only this, you may also manage the public, various computer systems, other stakeholders etc.
Aitor wrote: » That’s spot on. I think management in the Civil Service is a lot more consensus-based than people realise. Experience in teaching would definitely be useful- for training in new hires for example, or understanding why some people are struggling with certain parts of the job.
JAPhys wrote: » Aitor, in your experience, do you think it would be reasonable to assume that the first new APs from this new panel will not be placed this side of Christmas?
yop wrote: » I did the PO one before, took ages to fill out, did the apt tests and lost out on it. I've 23 yrs experience with around 10 yrs in various team lead/manager & engineer/it manager roles so I should be ok experience wise but the answer to the tests were wooly and I failed on them. So having a load of experience isn't worth much to me if I can't get through the tests and the tests are more weighted which is odd.
Crunchymomma wrote: » Is a degree a requirement? I hsve a management background from the private sector but no degree. My reading of the requirements is that it would be an advantage but is not necessarily required
Aitor wrote: » No, I don’t think so. I certainly know of APs who’ve progressed internally with no degree, but I’m not 100% certain about external candidates.
