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Rent

Your Face

I travel a lot with work.

Well now I'm moving house because I will be based in my current office/site for at least a year.

I'm looking around and rents are insane.

Not just a bit expensive but egregiously extortionate.

There are complete sweatboxes being called luxury apartments.

Rent pressure zones can be circumvented.
Threshold can be hoodwinked.
Renters seem to be easily ignored.

Nothing seems to be done to stop low quality high rents.

Is this your experience with renting too?
What can be done?

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Sonics2k

Augeo wrote: »

There was no minimum wage in the 80s.
But I'm sure there are household s on 40k/annum wage incomes managing away nicely today (outside of Dublin etc) with a car & mortgage etc.

Hang on, you think someone on 40k/annum wage can even get a mortgage these days?

My partner and I are on a combined 63k/annum wage and after a very long conversation with several banks and mortgage providers, they all calculated that based on our current spending, which limited purely bills, rent, car loan, and all that other stuff, we're like at a minimum of 15 years before we've secured the required 10% for a mortgage based on current house prices in Cork.

We don't get takeaway more than once a month, never go to the cinema and haven't had a holiday in about 5 years now.

My own mother was able to buy a house in Sheffield for a decent £18,000 in 1987. Having done a google search for that same area and approx housing prices, that same property would cost about £300,000. Even with inflation, that is an insane amount of money. The same can be said for both my aunt and uncle who bought houses in Cork in the 80's.

[Deleted User]

Sonics2k wrote: »

...............

My partner and I are on a combined 63k/annum wage and after a very long conversation with several banks and mortgage providers, they all calculated that based on our current spending, which limited purely bills, rent, car loan, and all that other stuff, we're like at a minimum of 15 years before we've secured the required 10% for a mortgage based on current house prices in Cork. ...............

No personal accountability for your lack of a deposit?

If you need a bank to tell you it'll take 15 years to save a deposit and ye earn 63k there's some serious spending going on IMO.

All that other stuff is what exactly? I'm mid 30s and only recently got a vehicle on finance and I'm driving (my own car) since I was 18.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Augeo wrote: »

Again, making a ROI as well as paying off the money borrowed to "invest" is delirious.

Folk don't borrow money to invest in the stockmarket, doing so with property is somehow thought to be logical.

Because investing in the stock market can be done at small scale over time. Property requires several 100 k upfront which very few people have.

[Deleted User]

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Because investing in the stock market can be done at small scale over time. Property requires several 100 k upfront which very few people have.

Indeed, all the more reason not to invest in property IMO.

Sonics2k

Augeo wrote: »

No personal accountability for your lack of a deposit?

If you need a bank to tell you it'll take 15 years to save a deposit and ye earn 63k there's some serious spending going on IMO.

All that other stuff is what exactly? I'm mid 30s and only recently got a vehicle on finance and I'm driving (my own car) since I was 18.

I didn't say I had no personal accountability on this. I was hit very hard by the recession and was set back very far. Since then I have worked pretty much every single day and have saved as much as possible.

The reason for the meeting was simple, we did our calculations but wanted a second opinion from a specialist. It was free, and mostly cleared up things for us.

Basically I acted like a responsible adult.

frozenfrozen

going to view a place at 4 pm today. Well actually they are doing a 'viewing' at 4pm. So there will probably be loads of people waving cash at them in brown envelopes, but I'm going along anyway

quadrifoglio verde

Mrnew wrote: »

so then what class are we cause we are not entitled to medical cards and still paying rent the same as a middle class person. Yes neither of our paths are high earners and I have just changed quite recently, I had a kid young should that mean I just give up and join the scroungers ?

You'd both be better off on the scratcher, getting Hap and all the other benefits. Sit down and add it up. Then work out how much work is costing you.
Financially you're being hammered working.

Unfortunately you are working class. What we class as working class though don't work and never will work.

Fol20

thomas 123 wrote: »

I worked in the services industry when the VAT rate was slashed in half for them, Not a single cent was passed onto staff who where paid 8.65 per hour at the time.

Id imagine the same or similar would happen if landlords where given a tax break of any description. It would still not solve the supply vs demand issue.

It won’t resolve it overnight. It may however lure some investors into the market which will in turn increase supply thus eventually decreasing the rental cost of tenants.

Fol20

Geuze wrote: »

Do not confuse a negative cashflow with positive rental profits.

You could well be earning large net rental profits, yet at the same time be cashflow negative.

A lot of accidental ll might confuse the two alright but I wouldn’t call it “large bet rental profit” when in reality your taking a big gamble and working multiple hours a year for potentially 3-5k on paying down the principle.

[Deleted User]

Fol20 wrote: »

It won’t resolve it overnight. It may however lure some investors into the market which will in turn increase supply thus eventually decreasing the rental cost of tenants.

Luring investors back into the market only pushes up purchase prices unless there's a drastic increase in units being completed available on the market.

Fol20

Sonics2k wrote: »

Hang on, you think someone on 40k/annum wage can even get a mortgage these days?

My partner and I are on a combined 63k/annum wage and after a very long conversation with several banks and mortgage providers, they all calculated that based on our current spending, which limited purely bills, rent, car loan, and all that other stuff, we're like at a minimum of 15 years before we've secured the required 10% for a mortgage based on current house prices in Cork.

We don't get takeaway more than once a month, never go to the cinema and haven't had a holiday in about 5 years now.

My own mother was able to buy a house in Sheffield for a decent £18,000 in 1987. Having done a google search for that same area and approx housing prices, that same property would cost about £300,000. Even with inflation, that is an insane amount of money. The same can be said for both my aunt and uncle who bought houses in Cork in the 80's.

63 combined is actually below the average industrial wage and you should be on circa 90(45k each). That along with the fact you have a car loan can impact a loan application massively. It’s all relative to what your looking for. You could get a 2 bed in cork city for circa 200k or 3/4 bed in satellite towns for the same amount which would bring you up to what you could afford if you had no other outstanding loans and the 20k deposit. People decide to get other niceties in life now such as 1k iPhones or brand new cars and if people really wanted a house like what they would have done many years ago it would mean having a beater car, no holidays, no eating out for a few years. At the end of the day it’s your own responsibility to save or spend your own money. If you look at the accommodation forum, you can see some people endured a few tough years so they could eventually get their dream home and when it pays off, all those years where your watching your friends jet off their the latest holiday was worth it.

Fol20

Augeo wrote: »

Luring investors back into the market only pushes up purchase prices unless there's a drastic increase in units being completed available on the market.

You might be right, House prices may increase but the yield would also decrease so investors will need to way up both. This page is about renting though the more supply of rental accommodation, the more likely, rent costs will decrease. It won’t decrease because landlords want it to decrease but because you can only set it at market rate and the more supply you have, it will eventually force ll to advertise for less

WoollyRedHat

Augeo wrote: »

No personal accountability for your lack of a deposit?

If you need a bank to tell you it'll take 15 years to save a deposit and ye earn 63k there's some serious spending going on IMO.

All that other stuff is what exactly? I'm mid 30s and only recently got a vehicle on finance and I'm driving (my own car) since I was 18.

Sorry just on the point of having a deposit.. what do you say to those who have to pay 50 per cent of their Salary on rent alone.? How are they supposed to even dream of making substantial contributions for a deposit?

And bear in mind, even if you had money for deposit, this alone isn't enough.

I would have enough for a property over 250k, but because I earn under 40K and with the mortgage lending dictating you can only borrow 3.5 ( 4.0 at a push) of your yearly income, it means even with a decent deposit, I still fall short of being able to afford a house in my county that isn't a run-down kip.

[Deleted User]

Consider temp house share for a while to reduce rental costs.

I don't live or work in the county I'm from. One cuts their cloth etc etc.

Also, now is a bad time to buy & an expensive time to rent....

KevinCavan

Fair play to Newstalk and Dr. Ciara Kelly, there was a segment on her show about the current property crisis. They were saying that it will take a few years for the Irish to take to the streets in protest. I’d echo what others have mentioned, the housing issue could well get Fine Gael turned out of office. Leo is totally out of touch.

BattleCorp

KevinCavan wrote: »

Fair play to Newstalk and Dr. Ciara Kelly, there was a segment on her show about the current property crisis. They were saying that it will take a few years for the Irish to take to the streets in protest. I’d echo what others have mentioned, the housing issue could well get Fine Gael turned out of office. Leo is totally out of touch.

And what will protests do for the housing crisis? The Government can't magic houses out of thin air.

optogirl

KevinCavan wrote: »

Fair play to Newstalk and Dr. Ciara Kelly, there was a segment on her show about the current property crisis. They were saying that it will take a few years for the Irish to take to the streets in protest. I’d echo what others have mentioned, the housing issue could well get Fine Gael turned out of office. Leo is totally out of touch.

There have been housing protests -I've been on them. We need more people to come on them!

[Deleted User]

Housing protests?
What is the aim of these?
Do ye want
- more social housing for those who don't work?
- cheaper rent for those who do work (tax credit etc etc)
- more affordable housing for workers?
- tax credits for landlords to encourage more folk to rent out properties?
- more private houses being built by developers?

What are ye protesting for exactly?

optogirl

Augeo wrote: »

Housing protests?
What is the aim of these?
Do ye want
- more social housing for those who don't work?
- cheaper rent for those who do work (tax credit etc etc)
- more affordable housing for workers?
- tax credits for landlords to encourage more folk to rent out properties?
- more private houses being built by developers?

What are ye protesting for exactly?

More social & affordable housing.
Better security of tenure & limits on rent increases for renters

whisky_galore

BattleCorp wrote: »

And what will protests do for the housing crisis? The Government can't magic houses out of thin air.

It's better than doing fcuk all.

The govt can magic up plenty things that also cost money when it wants to. Pay rises for themselves and their buddies etc.

[Deleted User]

optogirl wrote: »

More social & affordable housing...........

Are you in favour of increased taxation to pay for this?
Corporation tax, income tax (all bands) and VAT increases for example.
Did you feel strongly about this back in 2011 to 2014 when house prices were lower or is it only now as you are presumably looking to buy a house that you feel the need for these protests?

whisky_galore

KevinCavan wrote: »

Fair play to Newstalk and Dr. Ciara Kelly, there was a segment on her show about the current property crisis. They were saying that it will take a few years for the Irish to take to the streets in protest. I’d echo what others have mentioned, the housing issue could well get Fine Gael turned out of office. Leo is totally out of touch.

It's those people who feel insulated from the crisis now won't be so smug in a few years with their grown up kids living under their feet.

optogirl

whisky_galore wrote: »

It's those people who feel insulated from the crisis now won't be so smug in a few years with their grown up kids living under their feet.

totally agree - have a few family members who have dismissed my whinging about rent / not being able to get a mortgage who now have kids about to start college - will be very interesting to see their attitude change when they realise that little Johnny & Mary are likely to be living at home for a looooooooooong time.

[Deleted User]

The typical Irish attitude that things never change seems very prevelant in here. High rents and high house prices shall remain indefinitely for decades.......... yes, no doubt ........

Like the folk who thought the recession would never end.......... some reckon it's still at full swing too of course.

[Deleted User]

optogirl wrote: »

............ will be very interesting to see their attitude change when they realise that little Johnny & Mary are likely to be living at home for a looooooooooong time.

Yeah, most college graduates don't house share in their 20s etc etc.
They'll be home forever.
What did you do at college btw?

optogirl

Augeo wrote: »

Are you in favour of increased taxation to pay for this?
Corporation tax, income tax (all bands) and VAT increases for example.
Did you feel strongly about this back in 2011 to 2014 when house prices were lower or is it only now as you are presumably looking to buy a house that you feel the need for these protests?

Quite leading questions there. I have been involved in housing rights since about 2006 - I was strongly against the idea of 100% mortgages during the boom and thought it was a one way street to crisisville. I wasn't looking to buy a house until relatively recently - I thought I would happily rent forever tbh but that is becoming unsustainable in this country.

I am in favour of high taxation if the return on investment is there - I hate hearing politicians dangling carrots of cutting USC, PAYE etc when our health service is on its knees. High tax, good service is fine with me.

optogirl

Augeo wrote: »

Yeah, most college graduates don't house share in their 20s etc etc.
They'll be home forever.
What did you do at college btw?

I'm sensing some hostility here Augeo. I lived at home because it was a short commute.

[Deleted User]

optogirl wrote: »

...........

I am in favour of high taxation if the return on investment is there - I hate hearing politicians dangling carrots of cutting USC, PAYE etc when our health service is on its knees. High tax, good service is fine with me.

Ok, so you didn't plan on buying until you realised long term renting was unsustainable in Ireland. Before that light came on what were your plans for housing yourself in retirement?

optogirl

Augeo wrote: »

Ok, so you didn't plan on buying until you realised long term renting was unsustainable in Ireland. Before that light came on what were your plans for housing yourself in retirement?

that's right yes. I didn't realise rents would go up at such a quick rate and not in line with salary increases.

I though that I could perhaps rent forever, including in old age, with pension, savings, inheritance etc. Naive? Probably.

[Deleted User]

optogirl wrote: »

.............

I though that I could perhaps rent forever, including in old age, with pension, savings, inheritance etc. Naive? Probably.

Most definitely naive, especially as rents were on the floor during that recession thing we had recently enough, unless you were hoping the state might throw you a house.
I won't ask what your private/work pension situation is but I'm pretty sure it was never going to sustain renting private accommodation once you've finished working tbh.

Like, how many retirees do you know who rent in Ireland?

Anyway, the likes of yourself who have only recently decided they want to purchase in a time when both rents and house prices have risen and look to continue to do so, there's an element of tough luck about really IMO. Best of luck with your protests though ........... I'd sooner the tax take goes on the health service etc than bailing out folk who just decided to buy, but that's just my view.