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Helmets - the definitive thread.. Mod Note - Please read Opening Post

Felloffmebike

I'm sure this has been discussed before but I'm interested in a lot of recent comments about wearing or not wearing a helmet. It never occurred to me not to wear one but recently I'm picking up a lot of people who seem to have a different view. Why is that? Does wearing a helmet not make it safer if you fall, even a little bit? And those who advocate not wearing one, is it a safety thing or a style thing or a macho man thing or what? Or is there some evidence that a helmet doesnt actually give you any protection or even that wearing one could be dangerous in itself.

I'm not looking to start an argument, just interested in the different views.

Mod note

Title changed - this can hopefully be considered the definitive helmet thread that can be pointed to whenever anyone wants to start another discussion on the subject - I'll put a link from the FAQs to it also

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cython

If only there were somewhere that this had been asked and answered a number of times. Perhaps a "megathread" of sorts......

Irish Gunner

Ok was in an accident and the Bell helmet that served me well is now out in the bin with a crack

I was looking for a helmet with a light on it and saw the below in Lidl

https://www.lidl.ie/en/special-offers.htm?articleId=11192

Are there others out there similar that I can consider? Its just for a 30 minute commute there and back to work so just using for that so take it all the safety regulations are ok with this

Any other suggestions as going to bike shop today

Miklos

Irish Gunner wrote: »

Ok was in an accident and the Bell helmet that served me well is now out in the bin with a crack

I was looking for a helmet with a light on it and saw the below in Lidl

https://www.lidl.ie/en/special-offers.htm?articleId=11192

Are there others out there similar that I can consider? Its just for a 30 minute commute there and back to work so just using for that so take it all the safety regulations are ok with this

Any other suggestions as going to bike shop today

It's probably safer in a crash than not wearing one at all, but not by much I'd say.

hans aus dtschl

Irish Gunner wrote: »

Ok was in an accident and the Bell helmet that served me well is now out in the bin with a crack

I was looking for a helmet with a light on it and saw the below in Lidl

https://www.lidl.ie/en/special-offers.htm?articleId=11192

Are there others out there similar that I can consider? Its just for a 30 minute commute there and back to work so just using for that so take it all the safety regulations are ok with this

Any other suggestions as going to bike shop today

I got some nice Carnac "Notus" helmets from PlanetX for £15 the other day. Very neat and stylish, and a good fit. Would recommend. Phenomenal price.

Irish Gunner

Miklos wrote: »

It's probably safer in a crash than not wearing one at all, but not by much I'd say.

So are you saying it's not safe?

Looked at Carnac Notus on planet x and not cheap. Looking for one with light on the back

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01N7JUKZY/ref=asc_df_B01N7JUKZY1534680000000/?creative=22374&creativeASIN=B01MAYA9BE&linkCode=df0&tag=cyclist-m101-21&th=1&psc=1

Also looked at

http://www.cyclist.co.uk/buying-guides/1774/buyers-guide-best-budget-cycling-helmets

I don't mind paying but does extra cost mean better protection or just better durability?

tomasrojo

Irish Gunner wrote: »

So are you saying it's not safe?

Looked at Carnac Notus on planet x and not cheap. Looking for one with light on the back

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01N7JUKZY/ref=asc_df_B01N7JUKZY1534680000000/?creative=22374&creativeASIN=B01MAYA9BE&linkCode=df0&tag=cyclist-m101-21&th=1&psc=1

Also looked at

http://www.cyclist.co.uk/buying-guides/1774/buyers-guide-best-budget-cycling-helmets

I don't mind paying but does extra cost mean better protection or just better durability?

The helmets all have to meet the same standard, and competition around price usually means the manufacturers aim to pass the test, get the certificate, and leave it at that, so usually the more expensive ones are more stylish, or better ventilated, but they don't offer better protection.

The exception are MIPS helmets, that, probably, offer some protections against rotational acceleration, which conventional helmets don't.

(Your first question is a contested topic; there's plenty about it elsewhere in the the thread.)

dahat

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I got some nice Carnac "Notus" helmets from PlanetX for £15 the other day. Very neat and stylish, and a good fit. Would recommend. Phenomenal price.

How did you work around the extortionate delivery charges to Ireland?

Irish Gunner

tomasrojo wrote: »

The helmets all have to meet the same standard, and competition around price usually means the manufacturers aim to pass the test, get the certificate, and leave it at that, so usually the more expensive ones are more stylish, or better ventilated, but they don't offer better protection.

The exception are MIPS helmets, that, probably, offer some protections against rotational acceleration, which conventional helmets don't.

(Your first question is a contested topic; there's plenty about it elsewhere in the the thread.)

Okay mIps offers more protection but you pay premium for them correct

Just googling for prices. After been hit by a car and old helmet cracked down the side I want something that will offer great protection

tomasrojo

Bicycle helmet protection is for various reasons pretty modest. There really isn't a helmet that offers "great" protection. I think the MIPS are on the balance of probability as good as it gets.

magicbastarder

tomasrojo wrote: »

The helmets all have to meet the same standard, and competition around price usually means the manufacturers aim to pass the test, get the certificate, and leave it at that, so usually the more expensive ones are more stylish, or better ventilated, but they don't offer better protection.

would be interesting to see helmet manufacturers release actual test data.
or an organisation like which? do a group test.

tomasrojo

Which? did one, but it was years ago. I think a lot of the helmets failed the test -- which I think was just the basic anvil test (5kg headform dropped 1.5m onto an anvil, and the liner should crush but not break), and the expensive ones didn't do notably better than the cheap ones.

This all from memory, so happy to be corrected.

rubadub

Irish Gunner wrote: »

So are you saying it's not safe?

Sad to see people are still so ignorant about this, esp. in a thread like this.

It does not help when people are instructed to read the first post which has lines like

"And those who advocate not wearing one, is it a safety thing or a style thing or a macho man thing or what?"

It would be rare to hear lines like that about why people do not wear helmets while out drinking alcohol, knowing they will be several times over the limit, A&E full of head injuries due to booze. People get shitfaced at weddings, it does seem to be a style thing why they do not wear them, bunch of mad idiotic vain assholes.

I think the first post people are warned to read could have a few more links added, read this http://www.cyclehelmets.org/

Irish Gunner

rubadub wrote: »

Sad to see people are still so ignorant about this, esp. in a thread like this.

It does not help when people are instructed to read the first post which has lines like

"And those who advocate not wearing one, is it a safety thing or a style thing or a macho man thing or what?"

It would be rare to hear lines like that about why people do not wear helmets while out drinking alcohol, knowing they will be several times over the limit, A&E full of head injuries due to booze. People get shitfaced at weddings, it does seem to be a style thing why they do not wear them, bunch of mad idiotic vain assholes.

I think the first post people are warned to read could have a few more links added, read this http://www.cyclehelmets.org/

Not ignorant I always wear a helmet and from this thread I learned more

hans aus dtschl

dahat wrote: »

How did you work around the extortionate delivery charges to Ireland?

Parcel Motel. Adds an extra €3.

hans aus dtschl

Irish Gunner wrote: »

Looked at Carnac Notus on planet x and not cheap.

I said the price in my first post, tbf. And I think it's extraordinarily cheap.

CramCycle

rubadub wrote: »

It does not help when people are instructed to read the first post which has lines like

"And those who advocate not wearing one, is it a safety thing or a style thing or a macho man thing or what?"

Its more for people to read the mod warning but your quote is also selective, it is part of the OP asking was there reasoning or justification behind those who say they don't or would not wear a helmet.

Irish Gunner

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I said the price in my first post, tbf. And I think it's extraordinarily cheap.

Sorry was looking at the Irish site and not the UK.. Thanks

[Deleted User]

Irish Gunner wrote: »

Just googling for prices. After been hit by a car and old helmet cracked down the side I want something that will offer great protection

Out of curiosity, how did it crack, did your head hit the car or the road?

Irish Gunner

Aegir wrote: »

Out of curiosity, how did it crack, did your head hit the car or the road?

Car hit me from the left (driver not looking) I went over the bonnet and fell down on my left side so helmet saved my head. Bell helmet now in the bin. Have it a while so probably should have replaced it earlier (no hits before this)
Reading up given me more knowledge

Melodeon

There's going to be a cycling helmet item on the Pat Kenny show on Newstalk today.
The promo doesn't sound promising, and Jonathon Healy is hosting...

magicbastarder

i switched it off after a couple of minutes. brain injuries are bad, yes indeedy. no talk of any context in relation to cycling and wider effects and factors.

rubadub

Melodeon wrote: »

Jonathon Healy

Pretty sure he was claiming to wear a cycling helmet going to school.

In this 2 year old article he says he was in his 40th year
https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/this-much-i-know-jonathan-healy-radio-presenter-421541.html

So about 42 now. I only remember 1 kid wearing a helmet going to school who would have been born around the same time as him.

I wonder if he was lying so as not to appear "mad" or a reckless lunatic.

magicbastarder

i was the first person in our school to wear a helmet. i'm 42...

CramCycle

Was driving for work this morning so decided to listen through. Terrible piece. Absolutely no research done by the presenter and no querying of some of the rubbish coming out of the guests mouth. Nice way to feed into the cycling is dangerous mentality. I was tempted to text in but then I would have had to act like every other driver I seen this morning and text while driving so I passed.

One texter got the point in about helmets in a car but they actually refuted it saying it was unnecessary where my understanding is that it would be far more beneficial at a population level than a mandatory cycle helmet law.

rubadub

magicbastarder wrote: »

i was the first person in our school to wear a helmet. i'm 42...

did many others? it was very rare for that age group in my school. I remember it well that only 1 had them since lads loosened his front wheel and he had a bad crash, they likely would never have done this if he had no helmet. Just like I saw injuries go up when we were forced to wear hurling helmets.

When I was leaving you would see first years with them, but nobody in my age group.

CramCycle wrote: »

One texter got the point in about helmets in a car

They were also dismissing him saying it must be a tounge in cheek comment.

magicbastarder

i didn't hear much actual rubbish from the guest, her speciality is dealing with brain injury and in a very narrow sense she's probably correct when she thinks 'if this person had been wearing a helmet at the time of the crash, they would have suffered less', which is correct.

but she's just looking at outcomes, and the main issue was total lack of balance or understanding of the dynamics of cycling.

the issue about motorists adapting behaviour when they see a cyclist with a helmet on was dealt with in a very trivial manner - i think the host literally said 'well, i don't decide to cycle closer to a cyclist with a helmet, so...'

CramCycle

magicbastarder wrote: »

i didn't hear much actual rubbish from the guest, her speciality is dealing with brain injury and in a very narrow sense she's probably correct when she thinks 'if this person had been wearing a helmet at the time of the crash, they would have suffered less', which is correct.

I would disagree in that as a health official she is doing more harm than good. She is now actively involved in the dangerisation of cycling, meaning her activities may actually lead to a reduction of people taking up cycling at a young age.

but she's just looking at outcomes, and the main issue was total lack of balance or understanding of the dynamics of cycling.

100%. Missing the point about such campaigns and also the mentions of mandatory use having an overall negative effect on cycling numbers with no measurable reduction in head injuries that she would be dealing with.

The one interesting thing I would say is that, and I only though of this now, is that they gave loads of examples of ABI for cyclists. In every text that came in and every example she gave, every cyclist was wearing a helmet. I could be wrong, but if true, it is an odd correlation.

rubadub

magicbastarder wrote: »

i didn't hear much actual rubbish from the guest,'

You must have missed the bit suggesting a skull fractures in the same way as a helmet, i.e. pretty much saying if you see a crack in a helmet then if you had not been wearing one your skull would have had a similar crack.

I have said before if I wore a helmet 24/7 I would likely go through 3 or so a year

Beasty

Here's the acquired brain injury article if anyone wants to have a gander

Now I am biased as I genuinely am of the view wearing a helmet saved my life, but that was in a racing incident

I do think one valid point raised this morning is that head injuries are often caused by falls rather than collisions. I know I am very protective of my head nowadays if I do fall, as I know that repeated head injuries are a very serious risk, particularly given the scale of prior injuries I have had

Having said all that, I do not believe in any kind of compulsion, except for organised races/events (where insurance may actually be invalidated if helmets are not worn and a head injury occurs). It's remains a matter of personal choice, and I really cannot see the practicality of compulsion particularly when you have the likes of the Dublin bike scheme and want to encourage more to stay fit and healthy while reducing road congestion

Macy0161

Beasty wrote:

I do think one valid point raised this morning is that head injuries are often caused by falls rather than collisions. I know I am very protective of my head nowadays if I do fall, as I know that repeated head injuries are a very serious risk, particularly given the scale of prior injuries I have had

Didn't hear it, but that at least is what cycling helmets are designed for. My bugbear is the commentary regarding their usefulness if you get hit by a car.