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The Reseeding/Stitching Discussion Thread.

Green farmer

Have a old pasture, never been reseeded. Really poor growth, even though good quality dry land. Did the soil rest and says I'm 1&2's for the p&k and ph 5-8. Was going to lime and reseed . What's that best way to tackle it ?

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Reggie.

Tomjim wrote: »

How was the ground tilled?

Owner ploughed it. Powerharrowed and then rolled it.

Tomjim

Reggie. wrote: »

Owner ploughed it. Powerharrowed and then rolled it.

Would you get away with using a one pass system such as your system Reggie

Reggie.

Tomjim wrote: »

Would you get away with using a one pass system such as your system Reggie

Yeah I'd say you'd have no hassle once the grass was sprayed off and not much cover on it. Them cover crops are fairly aggressive growers. That's field wasn't touched in the owners memory and is to be reseeded next spring so that's why it was ploughed

Say my name

Say my name wrote: »

It might be hard to make out the tracks from sowing yesterday.
Scene today from finishing up rolling.
Then spread fert after.

Finally got something of value from these fields this year.

I got 5 bales/acre of silage from them today. I didn't expect that. I didn't fertilize them really for a cut but now I've a clean canvas for another cut.
5 bales/acre silage and they got 5t of basalt/acre when it was tilled. A bale for every ton.

CloughCasey1

9 acres done this evening. Roll and fert tomorro.

Say my name

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

9 acres done this evening. Roll and fert tomorro.

You may get yourself some (volcanic) basalt dust for that limestone land.

From the "Dirt" book I'm reading.

" The geology of a region controls the kind of soil produced when rocks break down, as they eventually must when exposed at the earth's surface. Granite decomposes into sandy soils. Basalt makes clay-rich soils. Limestone just dissolves away, leaving behind rocky landscapes with thin soils and lots of caves. Some rocks weather rapidly to form thick soils; others resist erosion and only slowly build up thin soils. Because the nutrients available to plants depend on the chemical composition of the soil's parent material, understanding soil formation begins with the rocks from which the soil originates."

GrasstoMilk

Say my name wrote: »

Finally got something of value from these fields this year.

I got 5 bales/acre of silage from them today. I didn't expect that. I didn't fertilize them really for a cut but now I've a clean canvas for another cut.
5 bales/acre silage and they got 5t of basalt/acre when it was tilled. A bale for every ton.

How long was it growing?

Say my name

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

How long was it growing?

It was topped on the 17/7 and then weed regrowth sprayed just after the weather broke.
I had to spray it because of docks coming through.

CloughCasey1

Say my name wrote: »

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

9 acres done this evening. Roll and fert tomorro.

You may get yourself some (volcanic) basalt dust for that limestone land.

From the "Dirt" book I'm reading.

" The geology of a region controls the kind of soil produced when rocks break down, as they eventually must when exposed at the earth's surface. Granite decomposes into sandy soils. Basalt makes clay-rich soils. Limestone just dissolves away, leaving behind rocky landscapes with thin soils and lots of caves. Some rocks weather rapidly to form thick soils; others resist erosion and only slowly build up thin soils. Because the nutrients available to plants depend on the chemical composition of the soil's parent material, understanding soil formation begins with the rocks from which the soil originates."

Plenty of limestone icebergs sticking up alright!!

Say my name

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Plenty of limestone icebergs sticking up alright!!

The Burren used to be prime farmland back in the day too. After the trees were taken off and farming commenced and we know the rest.
We may all read the memo on how to make (new) soil.

There's an area near where I live where there's a clear boundary of thin and thick soils. It's all the same shale rock underneath but west of the river urrin the soil is thicker and east of the river the soil has been erroded for longer and is thiner.
To the west must have been a different landlord or ownership as it was all forest to a few hundred years ago. East seems to have been grazing and tillage since the year dot and their soils have eroded that bit longer. But that squirrely little river is the dividing line.

DJ98

Is it best to do a soil test before or after reseeding? Also when's best to spread lime?

charolais0153

Say my name wrote: »

You may get yourself some (volcanic) basalt dust for that limestone land.

From the "Dirt" book I'm reading.

" The geology of a region controls the kind of soil produced when rocks break down, as they eventually must when exposed at the earth's surface. Granite decomposes into sandy soils. Basalt makes clay-rich soils. Limestone just dissolves away, leaving behind rocky landscapes with thin soils and lots of caves. Some rocks weather rapidly to form thick soils; others resist erosion and only slowly build up thin soils. Because the nutrients available to plants depend on the chemical composition of the soil's parent material, understanding soil formation begins with the rocks from which the soil originates."

Be a long distance to find basalt rock around here though

Buford T. Justice XIX

DJ98 wrote: »

Is it best to do a soil test before or after reseeding? Also when's best to spread lime?

Before reserving as the fert put out for the reseed will skew the fertility results.

Lime out before the seed so it gets worked into the soil to neutralise the acids from grass breakdown.

Say my name

charolais0153 wrote: »

Be a long distance to find basalt rock around here though

Look up the online bedrock map of Ireland.
There are pockets in different parts of the country and then obviously the east of norn Ireland is nearly 100% basalt.
Dung, slurry, humic acid, plant roots, acid in rain, would break the dust down.

The permies on Facebook and Twitter would have the first start of building soil to grow a protein cover crop of alfalfa,clover, vetch mixed with a few cereals. Mulch that (don't spray) and plough under. Then get your rock dusts, basalt and granite and maybe some lime if needed and till in. Then your nutrient charged biochar charged with dung, urine, fish humates, seaweed extract, worm juice and till that in too.
Then from then on maintain a cover on the soil the whole time and none of this continuous ploughing or set (golf ball grazing) stocking with sheep.
There's a quare lot of farmers have themselves to blame for their own troubles. The generations before may not have helped but the knowledge is there now on how to right things. In fact a lot of the permaculture principles have been there since ancient Greece but either the education wasn't taught or the farmer was always living hand to mouth or looking for the quick buck and they were never properly done. Same today.

Reggie.

15 acres in today

alps

Say my name wrote: »

Look up the online bedrock map of Ireland.
There are pockets in different parts of the country and then obviously the east of norn Ireland is nearly 100% basalt.
Dung, slurry, humic acid, plant roots, acid in rain, would break the dust down.

The permies on Facebook and Twitter would have the first start of building soil to grow a protein cover crop of alfalfa,clover, vetch mixed with a few cereals. Mulch that (don't spray) and plough under. Then get your rock dusts, basalt and granite and maybe some lime if needed and till in. Then your nutrient charged biochar charged with dung, urine, fish humates, seaweed extract, worm juice and till that in too.
Then from then on maintain a cover on the soil the whole time and none of this continuous ploughing or set (golf ball grazing) stocking with sheep.
There's a quare lot of farmers have themselves to blame for their own troubles. The generations before may not have helped but the knowledge is there now on how to right things. In fact a lot of the permaculture principles have been there since ancient Greece but either the education wasn't taught or the farmer was always living hand to mouth or looking for the quick buck and they were never properly done. Same today.

Have you fields where you have completed the above process? Any growth measurements vs a standard? Interesting work..

Say my name

alps wrote: »

Have you fields where you have completed the above process? Any growth measurements vs a standard? Interesting work..

There's times when you post and then a month later you look back and wonder who the hell hacked my account...

I guess I get too carried away reading permaculture sites. I endeavour to carry out some of those practices if that's any use to you.
Those people have opened a whole new chapter on agriculture and know how to actually make soil instead of continually stripping it.

(Now where's my copy of Acres till I read about Sunn hemp).

Say my name

alps wrote: »

Have you fields where you have completed the above process? Any growth measurements vs a standard? Interesting work..

Does this count?

2t basalt/acre spread last year and diluted seawater sprayed about a month ago.
8.7 bales/acre - 2nd cut.

Nothing's standard here.

RobinBanks

Is it gone to late to reseed now? Next week promised fairly good and I have a field all dug up where I was filling in hollows and draining.

Reggie.

RobinBanks wrote: »

Is it gone to late to reseed now? Next week promised fairly good and I have a field all dug up where I was filling in hollows and draining.

Lads still doing it around here. Frosty nights might be an issue tho but when mild weather returns then the frost might go away

MeTheMan

Does spraying the seaweed/seawater lower the pH much? Would you be spreading more lime to combat this?

Say my name

MeTheMan wrote: »

Does spraying the seaweed/seawater lower the pH much? Would you be spreading more lime to combat this?

It'll bring it up instead of down.
Any Sodium in it is alkaline. The same as Calcium and Magnesium.

The whole point of this malarkey is to get as broad a spectrum of minerals (safe and in such minuscule amounts to do no harm) as possible into the soil.
http://m.engineeringnews.co.za/article/over-40-minerals-and-metals-contained-in-seawater-their-extraction-likely-to-increase-in-the-future-2016-04-01
I did the whole farm last year but just that one this year with the diluted seawater and then I did other ones with mixed seaweed spray alright this year.
But I've soil tested this spring and will test again next spring to make sure everything is ticking along ok.
Hopefully it should and looks to be a tonic for the soil and the stock.
Stand out thing with all this basalt and seawater application malarkey is clean outs are now down to the ground with no forced grazing needed. Seaweed might not have been as good though the water troughs being kept empty in those paddocks and cows slightly uneasy but still milked ok. It darkens up the grass no end and does push on growth if that's your thing.
Molasses and seaweed solution was better than just the seaweed solution.

cute geoge

What dilution were you at with the sea water and what rate per acre .How did you collect the sea water .Could a lad drive to local strand and soak up a load with vacuum tank

Say my name

cute geoge wrote: »

What dilution were you at with the sea water and what rate per acre .How did you collect the sea water .Could a lad drive to local strand and soak up a load with vacuum tank

Eh no on the tanker. You'll kill the grass. Maybe you might get away with diluting it in a very big slatted tank of slurry and agitating well.
But it's illegal to take seawater from the sea without a license. Someone else collected it for me iykwim.
4 or 5 litres/acre diluted 1 to 20 non treated well water is safe enough to do no harm. The biggest impact will show on older pastures and then maybe once every few years. Everything in moderation.
Water churned up after a storm seems to be the best too.

Wildsurfer

Say my name wrote: »

cute geoge wrote: »

What dilution were you at with the sea water and what rate per acre .How did you collect the sea water .Could a lad drive to local strand and soak up a load with vacuum tank

Eh no on the tanker. You'll kill the grass. Maybe you might get away with diluting it in a very big slatted tank of slurry and agitating well.
But it's illegal to take seawater from the sea without a license. Someone else collected it for me iykwim.
4 or 5 litres/acre diluted 1 to 20 non treated well water is safe enough to do no harm. The biggest impact will show on older pastures and then maybe once every few years. Everything in moderation.
Water churned up after a storm seems to be the best too.

Are they afraid we'll run out of water in the sea! Where did you buy Basalt fertilizer?

Say my name

Wildsurfer wrote: »

Are they afraid we'll run out of water in the sea! Where did you buy Basalt fertilizer?

Probably related to the authorities wanting to know what's going on on the ground in case they miss out from some tax from sea salt making or whatnot. It's usually revenue related disguised by an environmental angle.

On the basalt. It came from an ordinary quarry that I just googled for what I wanted. It's sold as quarry dust for laneways and I've used it for that purposes too. Basalt is not really approved for agricultural use in this country like lime quarries are dept approved so again I had a lot of laneways to cover. Even though positive results have been measured abroad.
Robert McSweeney (@rtmcswee) Tweeted:
Field tests in the US found spreading basalt increased maize crop yields by 15%, says Beerling, and reduced N2O emissions from soils by 40% #negCO2 https://t.co/OEFiw5Zxye https://twitter.com/rtmcswee/status/999596624623128576?s=17

My experience has been positive anyway. I'm not grass measuring but there is a definite difference in the amount of grass and the colour of grass this year. Just don't get too cocky and lay off the fertilizer too much. I did that and my first cut silage would have been bulkier only for I layed off the fert. Lesson learned continue in your normal practice and treat any more as a bonus.

If you are serious about the basalt. Send me a pm. I'm not naming them in public.
There is an online map of quarries in Ireland and what they quarry which is very easy to Google too.

Siamsa Sessions

Reclaimed (weeds for 5+ years) and reseeded a few acres at the end of August. It’s doing fairly OK but on walking it yesterday, I noticed a good bit of chickweed.

Not many docks but plenty chickweed.

Is there any particular post-emergence spray more suited to chickweed than docks?

There’s 5% clover

mahoney_j

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Reclaimed (weeds for 5+ years) and reseeded a few acres at the end of August. It’s doing fairly OK but on walking it yesterday, I noticed a good bit of chickweed.

Not many docks but plenty chickweed.

Is there any particular post-emergence spray more suited to chickweed than docks?

There’s 5% clover

Find grazing gets rid of it here

Reggie.

mahoney_j wrote: »

Find grazing gets rid of it here

Yeah that's it. It's the year for chickweed for some reason

Dunedin

Is a week long enough in this weather enough to leave burning off (roundup) before tilling for reseeding?