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Removal of Change Reciepts on Dublin Bus Services.

devnull

Dublin Bus has confirmed that from 9th September they will no longer issue change receipts on their services:
https://www.dublinbus.ie/News-Centre/General-News/Removal-of-the-refund-facility-on-board-bus-services/

We wish to advise customers that from 9 September, you will no longer be issued a ‘refund due’ receipt when you overpay for your journey with cash on board our buses. Instead, you will be issued with an ‘extra payment’ receipt that is non-redeemable.

What can I do now?

• Use a Leap Card – Leap Card is at least 20% cheaper than paying in cash and it’s more efficient
• Have the exact fare for your journey
• Redeem previously issued ‘refund due’ receipts from our Head Office, O’Connell Street

If you still overpay for your journey after 9 September, the extra change will go towards continuing to improve our services, and funding the Community Spirit Awards, an initiative that has helped almost 1,800 voluntary groups to date through unclaimed passenger change.

The removal of the ‘refund due’ facility is also consistent with the National Transport Authority’s welcome intention to move to cashless operations on all buses under the BusConnects programme. The National Transport Authority is responsible for all aspects of the regulation of fares and ticketing.

It's strongly expected that the same policy will apply on Go-Ahead.

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Lord Glentoran

Stephen15 wrote: »

dashcamdanny wrote: »

No more change tickets!

I hope they advertise that really well. Drivers are going to get it in the neck from angry customers as it is.

Why get rid of the change ticket? Why does cashless need steps ?

I guess it's because the NTA want to icentivise people to get a Leap card before completely abandoning cash. I presume they are getting rid of the change tickets because people would be confused where to go to get change from Go-Ahead tickets as they wouldn't be able to get it from the DB offices.

Cashless would be even better but that would create even more anger and confusion than getting rid of change tickets if was done now.

I guess it’s because the NTA can’t or won’t impose a fare system on Dublin Bus that would allow for proper use of leap cards without queueing up to speak to the driver first. Abandoning change receipts looks catchy, and that’s what matters.

Tickityboo

CatInABox wrote: »

Well, this is coming as part of busconnects.....

Busconnects wasn't a thing then!!

punisher5112

Stephen15 wrote: »

Less than handling cash I would say. One thing I wonder is what will happen to de-safers working for DB and GAI once cashless buses are introduced I guess they'll be redeployed perhaps as drivers.

Most likely used for cleaning, refueling, moving of buses, retrained to service machines maybe or redundancy a possibility.

Hard to know but I'm sure they would have something to do.

CatInABox

Tickityboo wrote: »

I said this a few years ago (can't find the post)that once go ahead starts that there will miraculously be a simplified fare structure.

Well, this is coming as part of busconnects.....

Tickityboo

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Funny how this happens on the first day Go ahead start their operation.....

I said this a few years ago (can't find the post)that once go ahead starts that there will miraculously be a simplified fare structure.

gctest50

DivingDuck wrote: »

....

but there are undeniably a number of problems with the Leap system as a lot of people (basically all iPhone users) still can't do this.

iPhones can't encode data onto a tag, Android can - Apple are supposed to be enabling it this year

Not a Leap card / app problem, more a phone manufacturer with notions

Stephen15

howiya wrote: »

Forgot the Leap Card the other week and didn't have any change. Would have had to go to the shop to get change so just bought a second leap card instead of getting change.

Registered the card online and claimed the €7.85 refund.

Got to thinking afterwards, how much does a transaction like that cost the NTA? The card itself, payzone commission and processing the refund payment?

Less than handling cash I would say. One thing I wonder is what will happen to de-safers working for DB and GAI once cashless buses are introduced I guess they'll be redeployed perhaps as drivers.

howiya

Stephen15 wrote: »

It's easier to claim back the €5 deposit from a Leap card then it is to claim the 10 or 20 cent you overpayed in cash from O'Connell Street

Forgot the Leap Card the other week and didn't have any change. Would have had to go to the shop to get change so just bought a second leap card instead of getting change.

Registered the card online and claimed the €7.85 refund.

Got to thinking afterwards, how much does a transaction like that cost the NTA? The card itself, payzone commission and processing the refund payment?

MOH

vectorvictor wrote: »

Met with the response of "you are fully entitled to walk if you don't have to foresight to get a bus fare right"

Pretty much what I do these days, since after giving them well over a decade DB have utterly failed to get a bus service right. Still, maybe next century ....

Stephen15

heroics wrote: »

I know the initial 5€ is refundable but that just adds hassle. If they really wanted to get customers to stop using cash then accept contactless for occasional users and leap for the rest.

It's easier to claim back the €5 deposit from a Leap card then it is to claim the 10 or 20 cent you overpayed in cash from O'Connell Street

vectorvictor

heroics wrote: »

Contactless is not irrelevant in this scenario. Just because you can’t support it doesn’t make it irrelevant. If I use the bus once a year and the leap costs 5€ to buy and min 5€ credit then 20% savings means nothing.

I know the initial 5€ is refundable but that just adds hassle. If they really wanted to get customers to stop using cash then accept contactless for occasional users and leap for the rest.

Leap card is essentially free. The deposit is just that, a deposit and I really don't see how that can be "hassle"

Contactless will be nice but it's not necessary and doesn't form a barrier to utilising the technology they do have which to be fair is a stable and competitive cashless option.

Its 1am and I'm debating leap cards

‚ So we'll agree to disagree

heroics

vectorvictor wrote: »

Or to avail of the min 20% saving by getting a leap card , or to have the correct change for your journey. Contactless would be great but it's irrelevant in this scenario.

If people want to use the bus get a leap card or bring the right fare. If they can't be bothered doing either then I highly doubt they'd be bothered going to O'Connell Street to get their 20cent back

Contactless is not irrelevant in this scenario. Just because you can’t support it doesn’t make it irrelevant. If I use the bus once a year and the leap costs 5€ to buy and min 5€ credit then 20% savings means nothing.

I know the initial 5€ is refundable but that just adds hassle. If they really wanted to get customers to stop using cash then accept contactless for occasional users and leap for the rest.

Stephen15

heroics wrote: »

Logic would be not to introduce this until contactless was an option

If it was still possible to claim the change then when Go-Ahead takeover their share of the routes, people would essentially have to go to two separate locations to be able to claim their change depending on what route they are using which would just create unesscary confusion. That's the logic behind this.

vectorvictor

Stephen15 wrote: »

Perhaps it would be a good idea to print on all cash tickets what the fare would be if it was paid if it was paid using a Leap card.

Paper tickets could have the following wording printed on them.

Adult Single Cash: €3.30

With a Leap card this fare would be: €2.60 saving you €0.70
For more info on savings see Leapcard.ie You big overpaying eejet

Fixed that for you

Stephen15

Perhaps it would be a good idea to print on all cash tickets what the fare would be if it was paid if it was paid using a Leap card.

Paper tickets could have the following wording printed on them.

Adult Single Cash: €3.30

With a Leap card this fare would be: €2.60 saving you: €0.70
For more info on savings see Leapcard.ie

vectorvictor

heroics wrote: »

Logic would be not to introduce this until contactless was an option

Or to avail of the min 20% saving by getting a leap card , or to have the correct change for your journey. Contactless would be great but it's irrelevant in this scenario.

If people want to use the bus get a leap card or bring the right fare. If they can't be bothered doing either then I highly doubt they'd be bothered going to O'Connell Street to get their 20cent back

heroics

vectorvictor wrote: »

Hard not to be , it's pure logic.
As for being unable or willing to carry a leap card, anybody that precious will surely have the limo on speed dial

Logic would be not to introduce this until contactless was an option

heroics

Stephen15 wrote: »

If people don't have the wherewithal to use a Leap card and be able to hold on to it then I seriously doubt they'd be bothered keeping change vouchers to collect at DB HQ.

Last time I had them I gave them to charity. If all of the money from now on went to charity and was transparent then that wouldn’t bother me either. I just think it’s premature doing this before introducing contactless payments

DivingDuck

vectorvictor wrote: »

Yet they'll all have their Costa, Valueclub or Tesco Club card on them.

Leap could be made a bit easier I.e. key fob card or NFC mobile but its really not a challenge to have it

The vast majority of the time, I have two credit cards and a debit card in my wallet, along with a twenty, and about a fiver in change. That's all.

Not everyone carries around a ton of useless loyalty cards, and certainly not all of the time.

As for Leap: I've had one for years, but never bothered using it because checking the balance required registration, and from home I had no means to add credit to it unless I walked five to ten minutes away from where I would go to get the bus to do so. Now have access to an NFC Android phone, it is considerably less useless to me, but there are undeniably a number of problems with the Leap system as a lot of people (basically all iPhone users) still can't do this.

It's ridiculous they're getting rid of the refund receipts now; they should have delayed this until their electronic system can support, at the very least, the use of contactless debit cards on boarding.

No other business would get away with this malarkey, but Dublin Bus do because of their captive market. It's not fair to their customers.

vectorvictor

heroics wrote: »

Tbh I was just giving a different point of view. Most of the posts seemed to only be in favour of this.

Hard not to be , it's pure logic.
As for being unable or willing to carry a leap card, anybody that precious will surely have the limo on speed dial

Stephen15

If people don't have the wherewithal to use a Leap card and be able to hold on to it then I seriously doubt they'd be bothered keeping change vouchers to collect at DB HQ.

MarkY91

Ah sure before I started using the leap card in the past 6 months, the drivers wouldn't give the change receipt without having to ask for it anyways.

heroics

Tbh I was just giving a different point of view. Most of the posts seemed to only be in favour of this.

vectorvictor

heroics wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest does anyone have the stars on how many bus journeys were paid in cash as opposed to leap? Since leap is so brilliant I presume this is a tiny percentage.

Actually just did. A quick google all I could find was 70% of journeys in Dublin bus in 2017 were leap and there was 139million journeys. That still leaves a sizeable number of passengers that have not moved to leap. (Approx 39million journeys) based on those numbers.

Regarding leap being "brilliant" , and ignoring your belligerence, which isn't necessary to make your point, I would say 70% is good up take from those who "get it" , the remainder will need to be forced (a bit like how baggage charges on airlines suddenly made people able to travel lighter).

This happens in every change management scenario , there are always those who are slow on the uptake or "don't like change" (pardon the pun)

heroics

G_R wrote: »

Is that including free travel passes? If not, I'd image they count for a large majority of that 39m.

Anecdotally, i use the bus 4 times and a very small percentage use cash

Not sure tbh was just a quick google maybe someone here has better figures.

heroics

vectorvictor wrote: »

Yet they'll all have their Costa, Valueclub or Tesco Club card on them.

Leap could be made a bit easier I.e. key fob card or NFC mobile but its really not a challenge to have it

I carry bank cards/driving licence/health ins and sons u6 med card that’s it. A lot of times I just carry the mobile and use Apple Pay or cash if i need anything.

G_R

heroics wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest does anyone have the stars on how many bus journeys were paid in cash as opposed to leap? Since leap is so brilliant I presume this is a tiny percentage.

Actually just did. A quick google all I could find was 70% of journeys in Dublin bus in 2017 were leap and there was 139million journeys. That still leaves a sizeable number of passengers that have not moved to leap. (Approx 39million journeys) based on those numbers.

Is that including free travel passes? If not, I'd image they count for a large majority of that 39m.

Anecdotally, i use the bus 4 times and a very small percentage use cash

heroics

Just as a matter of interest does anyone have the stars on how many bus journeys were paid in cash as opposed to leap? Since leap is so brilliant I presume this is a tiny percentage.

Actually just did. A quick google all I could find was 70% of journeys in Dublin bus in 2017 were leap and there was 139million journeys. That still leaves a sizeable number of passengers that have not moved to leap. (Approx 39million journeys) based on those numbers.

vectorvictor

heroics wrote: »

It’s just an extra thing to carry for the occasional use. Makes perfect sense if using public transport regularly. For example I use bus/dart Luas probably 3 or 4 times a year. For me a leap card is a pita

As above if they accepted contactless I wouldn’t have a problem.

Yet they'll all have their Costa, Valueclub or Tesco Club card on them.

Leap could be made a bit easier I.e. key fob card or NFC mobile but its really not a challenge to have it

heroics

G_R wrote: »

It's so easy and cheap to get a leap card I really don't think that this is a valid argument tbh.

Some people just need a kick up the hole to switch.

It’s just an extra thing to carry for the occasional use. Makes perfect sense if using public transport regularly. For example I use bus/dart Luas probably 3 or 4 times a year. For me a leap card is a pita

As above if they accepted contactless I wouldn’t have a problem.