AGC wrote: » My opinion is Shane is a better player than they are. Micheel and Beem better players than Fowler, Monty etc...?
davo10 wrote: » Pogue eile wrote: » So you would solely rank golfers on majors won and nothing else? Were you not on another thread, incidently also about an Irish golfer, claiming that Koepka, Johnson and Spieth and god know who else were all better than a golfer who has won 4 majors? You seem to move the goalposts depending on your arguement with the only consistency being your need to belittle all Irish golfers. No, I am saying that it is hard to agree that one golfer who has lost his card, has 2 wins in 10 years as a pro is a "far better" golfer that 2 pros were at the time they won majors. If you ask me do I think Koepka, Speith, Thomas and Johnson are better golfers than McIllroy, now, yes I think they are. McIllroy's game has regressed. I don't care if they are Irish, couldn't care less, it amazes me that you think they deserve more praise just because of where they were born, what difference does that make to them as golfers?
Pogue eile wrote: » So you would solely rank golfers on majors won and nothing else? Were you not on another thread, incidently also about an Irish golfer, claiming that Koepka, Johnson and Spieth and god know who else were all better than a golfer who has won 4 majors? You seem to move the goalposts depending on your arguement with the only consistency being your need to belittle all Irish golfers.
davo10 wrote: » How can you possibly compare them as golfers?, they are from different eras. Did you see Beem or Micheel's play week in week out like we do now with all the TV coverage? Did you see either of them when they won their majors? How would Lowry have faired on 2002 or Beem/Micheels fair now if they were young golfers?
FixdePitchmark wrote: » I know it is a bad year. But not sure why people have such little faith in an Irish golfer who just finished 12 in the last major. The fact he is Irish is part of it - are we not supporters of Irish golf ? We need Irish golfers at the top - we don't have too many.
Pogue eile wrote: » :ermm: You're finally loosing it I think davo, have a lie down for yourself there
OEP wrote: » Of course we support him, but it doesn't mean it has to be blind support. Graeme McDowell only has one major, Darren Clarke one major - they have 14 and 21 wins respectively. Shane has 3 wins, one as an amateur. He is not at the level they were at at the same age, and it's not like they were raging hot favourites to win majors either. 12th is a good finish but there's such a massive difference to 12th and winning. Anyone in the field is capable of 12th, but it's a different story when it comes to winning. I hope he does win a major, but his game needs to improve quite a bit or he needs to have a hot streak during one of them.
AGC wrote: » I watched both their major wins and didn’t see them week in week out before or after that because they were not in the TV coverage because they were freak winners. Lowry made it inside the top 20 in the world. Has been consistently been in the top 100/50 over the last few years. I highly doubt either of the above made it to that level on a consistent basis. You sound like Peter Lawrie on the Newstalk podcast.
davo10 wrote: » I don't care if they are Irish, couldn't care less, it amazes me that you think they deserve more praise just because of where they were born, what difference does that make to them as golfers?
FixdePitchmark wrote: » We have had a fairly golden period of Irish performance in majors. But in the 80s and 90s - a full 2 decades we had little or nobody at the top top of the game. We had golfers like Christy O'Connor, Eamon Darcy , Des Smyth - winning events and in majors - top 10s etc. But they were not at the same level as Shane - and Shane by the end of his career will have had a far more significant impact. (IMO) You are unusual that you seem to lack national pride. But for most Irish golf fans an Irish man near the top in events - brings so much more to it. Even the likes of the Ryder cup is not the same. So yes, it does matter to most that he is Irish - we don't get too many players to the top of the game. Shane is one of our few hopes at present. Cherish them when they are there.
davo10 wrote: » I think Lowry has a bit to go before he will be held in the same regard as those three.
davo10 wrote: » According to his bio, his win help to establish Beem in the top 20 of world rankings, I can't find confirmation of how long he was there though.https://tvnewsroom.org/biography-images/rich-beem-146658/
FixdePitchmark wrote: » but he is 31. I'll ask you a straight question . Do you think he will achieve more than the golfers mentioned ?
AGC wrote: » For me that would be a no, I can’t see Shane getting near Christy’s record for starters
FixdePitchmark wrote: » What part of Christy's record ? His senior wins ?
FixdePitchmark wrote: » But not sure why people have such little faith in an Irish golfer who just finished 12 in the last major.
davo10 wrote: » They have 51 pro wins between them, COCJr is remembered world wide for one of the most stunning shots ever played in the Ryder Cup, so he has a hell of a lot to do to top those three, and he ain't looking good at the moment.
AGC wrote: » Impact on the game. For the 3 names you picked they possibly have 10 Ryder Cups between them, granted some as GB&I and no idea how many pro wins. I do not disagree with you on Shane being good enough to win a major and that would separate him from who you named but to be held in the names above Shame certainly needs Ryder Cup, otherwise in the future Harrington, Clarke, McGinley, Gmac, Rory will be held in a different league as major winners( McGinley apart) and multiple Ryder cup players.
GreeBo wrote: » So when the player is Irish, finishing 12th in a major is a sign of greatness, but when they are a US player like Micheel or Beem, winning it means nothing? Stop this bus, I want to get off.
Russman wrote: » 51 pro wins is a bit misleading though, in the context of the debate, isn’t it ? I mean, 15 were domestic Irish tournaments, 13 senior events, and 6 fourball events. Des Smyth’s 8 wins alone on the main tour would be a far better benchmark re Shane. If he was to pick up 6 or 7 wins in the next decade he’d have done well.
AGC wrote: » Did anyone say their major wins mean nothing?
FixdePitchmark wrote: » If Shane returned to European tour he would have multiple wins and be pushing a Ryder Cup place. But he had more ambition and backed himself in the states - it paid off with a win. But he has had a dip in form. Some of these vaulted Irish wins mentioned by Irish golfers are little more than regional events. Shane got to 21st in the OWGR - in an era when it is a true global game of incredible standard He will learn from this - the hard way. I'd say he will come back stronger and better.
AGC wrote: » I would disagree massively there. Lowry is a far better player then Shaun Micheel or Rich Beem
AGC wrote: » My opinion is Shane is a better player than they are.
AGC wrote: » Look at some of the 1 hit wonders that have won majors. Lowry would certainly be well ahead of them.
downthemiddle wrote: » And far worse who have.
GreeBo wrote: » Well I dont know quite what else to take from a sample of your dismissive posts below?
FixdePitchmark wrote: » The fact he is Irish is part of it - are we not supporters of Irish golf ? We need Irish golfers at the top - we don't have too many.
