An_Toirpin wrote: » There is no sitting bishop that covered up anyway in Ireland in this country.
An_Toirpin wrote: » Well I would presume that person is more interested in going after active bishops. Maybe they mean Seán Brady but is there really a case? Any lawyers here on the thread?
Water John wrote: » Aren't you very careful with your wording in the last sentence; 'There is no sitting bishop that covered up anyway in Ireland in this country.' Quote. Does this cover retired bishops or bishops no longer in this country?
Irish Kings wrote: » Rubbish. Neither the state or the Church management has. With all the new evidence coming to light year after year : How many bishops / former bishops that concealed criminal activity and attempted to pervert the course of justice have been questioned under caution so far by the state ? How many warrants to search their files and offices have been issued by the state ? How many files for attempting to pervert the course of justice been sent to the DPP by the Gardai ? How many bishops / former bishops have been take to court and trialed for attempting to conceal criminal activity and pervert the course of justice ? To do so was ALWAYS and EVER HAS BEEN against Irish law.
Irish Kings wrote: » So no crime was commited when these bishops conspired to pervert the course of justice ? yeah right. When was it not a crime to pervert the coursed of justice and conceal a crime ? Don't be an idiot. Tell us though how though do you propose to prevent people from perverting the course of justice and covering up child rape if the state continually refuses to investigate those responsible for doing exactly that, never mind prosecute them ?
Fighting Tao wrote: » I don't think you understand what is meant by change. The state changed procedures and processes to safeguard children. The church have done nothing. Are you implying that the state is currently raping children?
Fighting Tao wrote: » Are you implying that the state is currently raping children?
Irish Kings wrote: » And tell us how you propose to protect Children when the state refuses to enforce the law or prosecute the people who conspired to cover up criminal activity and pervert the course of justice ?
Fighting Tao wrote: » Maybe i should clarify. The state has learned about the protection of children and changed procedures and practices. The church has not. Maybe you don’t agree with the protection of children!
Irish Kings wrote: » Rubbish. With all the new evidence coming to light year after year How many bishops / former bishops that concealed criminal activity and attempted to pervert the course of justice have been questioned under caution so far by the state ? How many warrants to search their files and offices been issued by the state ? How many files for attempting to pervert the course of justice been sent to the DPP by the Gardai ? How many bishops / former bishops have been take to court and trialed for attempting to conceal criminal activity and pervert the course of justice ? To do so was ALWAYS and EVER HAS BEEN against the law.
Fighting Tao wrote: » The state has been held accountable and is paying victims for various crimes. The state has changed over the years and learned from the interactions with the RCC.
Irish Kings wrote: » So no other crimes were committed and no other laws were broken when they conspired to pervert the course of justice and concealed criminal activity ? Absolute Rubbish. It's always been a crime to conceal any crime, and yet the state is doing nothing. Who else is supposed to question, trial, convict and sentence these people and enact justice if it's not the state ? These flimsy Church and / or State apologist's excuses are rubbish.
Rivka Flat Handgun wrote: » Why is no one calling for the heads of the Gardai and political figures who knew about the abuse and covered it up?
Hotblack Desiato wrote: » Did you see my post which mentioned statute of limitations, and that covering up child abuse has not always been a crime?
Sycamore Tree wrote: » From all accounts this Pennsylvania report is quite disturbing even for those of us accustomed to shocking child abuse reports. The sexual abuse dates back from 1947 and the report names 300 predator priests abusing over 1000 children. You already get the impression that the Americans will take a no nonsense approach when dealing with the Roman organisation even though it also highlights the flaws in their statute of limitations.
Irish Kings wrote: » Those who are now in authority in the state are not pro Catholic Church, so why not a single arrest for questioning, or warrant issued for searching their files in recent years, never mind a trial or conviction for the bishops that covered up these crimes in Ireland ? Most of these Bishops are still alive and well. The state is on the only body in Ireland that can obtain and administer justice for the victims of these crimes and cover ups, so why are the state authorities still refusing to do so and getting away with it, along with the bishops responsible ?
quintana76 wrote: » Suggesting we protest against the Pope as our clown of a Taoiseach visits a Muslim Brotherhood mosque for a photo shoot. There is no hope.
realitykeeper wrote: And that`s another thing, if I were a victim of rape or whatever, I would go tell the GardaÃ. None of these allegations ring true and the utter prejudice displayed against the clergy by all levels of society reinforce the perception that this is a witch hunt.
Discodog wrote: » Maybe they are afraid that they will face compensation claims as it's obvious the state knew about abuse.
erica74 wrote: » I don't think that's the case. I have read stories about them fighting court decisions and dragging things out, certainly not easily picking up the tab.I do think that there is something very strange about the lack of action from our government. I can't explain what. In high profile abuse ring cases, gardai, senior government officials etc have been implicated, maybe it's a similar story here? I think I remember when the Brendan Smyth case was going on (it may well have been a different case) there was evidence of police involvement and cover up.
Leroy42 wrote: » Add to that that historic cases of abuse are very difficult to convict on. First off the victim needs to want to go through all that again. 2nd the priest may not still be alive Records not available Many of the victims were in homes/care and as such the records reside in the church, who can easily block access.
Leroy42 wrote: » I do think that religion continues to carry quite a significant weight in many countries. Taking on the CC is going to cost quite a lot of votes. They are expecting 500k at this event, that is quite a lot of potential voters who seem ok with the CC as it stands. This things are political. The fact that Leo is welcoming an organisation that treats him as a sinner and going to spend eternity in hell, shows that the CC is still a powerful political force.
batgoat wrote: » Maybe this situation would never have arisen if the church had actually reported the crimes? But instead you're making this about the poor church and they're really the victims... Everything goes back to, the church intentionally made it impossible to investigate.
Leroy42 wrote: » One simple question. If one was to start a religious organisation, do you think we should start off with an organisation with systemic child abuse and an inbuilt sexism code.
Hotblack Desiato wrote: » 30 or 40 years ago if a victim went to the Gardai they wouldn't have been believed, because the priests were regarded as pillars of the community who literally could do no wrong. How wrong we were, in all too many cases. But while thankfully Irish society has finally moved on from this mentality of bowing and scraping and unwarranted deference,
