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Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

JCX BXC

The seat map for the B767-200 being leased by EI next year are available on the Aer Lingus website, the seating is 2,3,2 in economy (As was suspected) and 2,2,2 in business

There are 189 economy seats and 12 Business seats making a total of the reported 201 seats.

Anyone know whether the B767 will be repainted, partially or entirely, in the EI colours for the 6 months that its leased for?

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Nijmegen

Hiring in a plane is by far and away the better option all round, particularly when you consider that for example on a number of the hits they've had recently I'd say it was someone else's insurance picking up the bill. The reputational damage is mostly from delays, which would happen anyway at an outstation where a number of these unfortunate incidents have occurred. EI is going through a period of rapid expansion, where capacity is not caught up. I'd say there'll be more slack in 18-24 months time in any event.

goingnowhere

And the last thing you want to hire in is a clapped out BA 767

[Deleted User]

Mebuntu wrote: »

A laughable analogy, really - comparing individuals, many on a shoestring budget, to a company with contractual obligations to transport 300+ people a throw (600+ if you count the cancelled return flight) over a distance of from 3,000-5,000 miles.

It’s not that bad to be honest as it gets the point across about have an expensive asset sitting around doing nothing for large periods of time. Analogies don’t necessarily need to be like for like they just need to get a point across in a way people can understand.

billy few mates

Mebuntu wrote: »

A laughable analogy, really - comparing individuals, many on a shoestring budget, to a company with contractual obligations to transport 300+ people a throw (600+ if you count the cancelled return flight) over a distance of from 3,000-5,000 miles.

Glad to have helped you raise a smile, I was only making the point by way of example, the numbers may be different but the rationale and logic behind it is the same.
Don't forget they also have an obligation to the shareholders...

trellheim

ow if a BA jet landed to take over LAX on a constant basis I would say the airport roundabout would be occupied once again.

Spanish airline deploys planes where required to cover passenger needs shock horror , now sports .

Irony aside EI is by far the highest operating margin in IAG its not as if they dont have the cash to cover ; if your into risky planning then it might look better on the bottom line to say ah-fkit if anything goes wrong we'll play the percentages and hire in. Judge for yourself on fleet av predictions vs typical unknown-unknowns.

Not sure though why they dont send an IB 346 over though for example to cover , if there was a spare.

salmocab

I’m an absolute know nothing on this but read this thread with interest, how many a/c do EI have for transatlantic currently? How many would they need before it would make sense to have one extra plane to rotate one out of service at a time for servicing etc and have available for problems with the fleet or would that be too expensive. I know it’s not that straight forward as all transatlantic routes don’t go every day so there might be a free aircraft on certain days anyway.

kevinandrew

I think a lot of people overestimate what kind of business IAG is, it’s not a happy union of airlines but a group of individual airlines designed to still compete not only on the world stage but with each other as well. It’s very much an every man for himself situation within the group that appears to be encouraged by management at IAG.

Aer Lingus and Iberia hardly interact, you’d be forgiven to think they’d at least codeshare being in the same airline group but they don’t. Aer Lingus has had former Vueling and Iberia frames in the fleet but that was via leasing companies rather than any special relationship between the airlines themselves.

Having standby aircraft is logistically very difficult and even more so if you’re sending aircraft for “partner” airlines at bases across Europe. Airlines that specialise in last minute leases have the legal requirements, crews and aircraft readily available without much fuss. Yes, it can be costly but it’s happened to Aer Lingus before and never appears to break the bank.

LXFlyer

salmocab wrote: »

I’m an absolute know nothing on this but read this thread with interest, how many a/c do EI have for transatlantic currently? How many would they need before it would make sense to have one extra plane to rotate one out of service at a time for servicing etc and have available for problems with the fleet or would that be too expensive. I know it’s not that straight forward as all transatlantic routes don’t go every day so there might be a free aircraft on certain days anyway.

There are 17 aircraft in service on transatlantic routes:

4 x B757 (2 in Shannon and 2 in Dublin)
5 x A330-200
8 x A330-300

An aircraft rostered for maintenance isn’t going to be available as cover.

goingnowhere

And to make matters more complex you cannot use certain aircraft on certain routes

B757 can only get as far as East Coast destinations
Only the A330-200 can go 'anywhere' except for EI-EWR which isn't crew rest fitted and EI-GEY which is strictly for IAD only
Only the 'new' A330-300's can go West Coast (unless you want to take a hit on payload i.e may need to offload people ex Dublin) and only the latest 2 are actually equipped with crew rest

marno21

goingnowhere wrote: »

And to make matters more complex you cannot use certain aircraft on certain routes

B757 can only get as far as East Coast destinations
Only the A330-200 can go 'anywhere' except for EI-EWR which isn't crew rest fitted and EI-GEY which is strictly for IAD only
Only the 'new' A330-300's can go West Coast (unless you want to take a hit on payload i.e may need to offload people ex Dublin) and only the latest 2 are actually equipped with crew rest

What's the reason for GEY being only for IAD?

goingnowhere

It never strays from IAD

It hasn't got the EI business class cabin so is kept off the premier routes and UA's offering to IAD is still a 757 so its competitive. Doubt it has crew rest

trellheim

I think a lot of people overestimate what kind of business IAG is, it’s not a happy union of airlines but a group of individual airlines designed to still compete not only on the world stage but with each other as well. It’s very much an every man for himself situation within the group that appears to be encouraged by management at IAG.

Aer Lingus and Iberia hardly interact, you’d be forgiven to think they’d at least codeshare being in the same airline group but they don’t. Aer Lingus has had former Vueling and Iberia frames in the fleet but that was via leasing companies rather than any special relationship between the airlines themselves.

Having standby aircraft is logistically very difficult and even more so if you’re sending aircraft for “partner” airlines at bases across Europe. Airlines that specialise in last minute leases have the legal requirements, crews and aircraft readily available without much fuss. Yes, it can be costly but it’s happened to Aer Lingus before and never appears to break the bank.

I get that
It does not, however break the bounds of sanity to 0 in my example - if there was a spare IB 346 in MAD and EI needed it wet , does that not make it a better return to the IAG shareholders rather than an Omni hire which is money straight out the door

john boye

trellheim wrote: »

I get that
It does not, however break the bounds of sanity to 0 in my example - if there was a spare IB 346 in MAD and EI needed it wet , does that not make it a better return to the IAG shareholders rather than an Omni hire which is money straight out the door

Even if there was a spare IB 340 sitting in MAD it's very unlikely that it would be scheduled to be idle long enough to operate a MAD-DUB-USA-DUB-MAD rotation. It would be required by IB for their own scheduled ops soon enough.

Jamie2k9

An IAG company wouldn't be able to match the price of existing operators which is one reason why it dons't happen. EI are long standing customer at this stage so they likely have a set agreement for leases if they are available.

billy few mates

Plus as mentioned several times above, ad hoc charters an ACMI lease ins are often covered by insurance, especially in the case of ground damage so the final bill might not be as high as it might seem...

Karl8415

I see American Airlines announced today that they are introducing a direct service from Dublin to Dallas next June but only up until late September,when EI said recently that they wud announce 2 new TA routes next year I taught Dallas might be one of them,I believe trade links would be quite strong between both cities

[Deleted User]

Karl8415 wrote: »

I see American Airlines announced today that they are introducing a direct service from Dublin to Dallas next June but only up until late September,when EI said recently that they wud announce 2 new TA routes next year I taught Dallas might be one of them,I believe trade links would be quite strong between both cities

Dallas is a large hub airport for American so it make massive sense that they start it as they’ll have the best connections. Bit like Cathay to Hong Kong. All part of the grand plan of being part of the One World alliance as previously suggested. Don’t be surprised to hear JAL to Tokyo as it’s possibly the only last realistic airline to fly to Dublin.

Marcusm

Karl8415 wrote: »

I see American Airlines announced today that they are introducing a direct service from Dublin to Dallas next June but only up until late September,when EI said recently that they wud announce 2 new TA routes next year I taught Dallas might be one of them,I believe trade links would be quite strong between both cities

There is a Joint Business Arrangement in place for transatlantic flights between BA, AA, Iberia and Finnair which Aer Lingus is slated to join. Makes sense to remove a suboptimal AA 757 ex JFK and leave that route to EI. DFW is AA’s busiest connecting hub. For Irish passengers it will open up Caribbean, Central and South American flights which can be marketed by EI who gain revenue share.

Noxegon

I hope DFW goes year round in due time. I have to go to Austin several times a year and Dallas plus a rental car is good enough for my needs.

sherology

Re: DFW: Yeah... Good news to get some passenger # data for EI (or a continued AA service), but the flight arrival and departure times are at that peak CBP/T2 crunch time... So that'll be a gate taken up for 2hrs I guess?

Anywho... Good to see.

JCX BXC

sherology wrote: »

Re: DFW: Yeah... Good news to get some passenger # data for EI (or a continued AA service), but the flight arrival and departure times are at that peak CBP/T2 crunch time... So that'll be a gate taken up for 2hrs I guess?

Anywho... Good to see.

It's replacing the JFK service they operated, so hypothetically it shouldn't cause any extra issues.

Are the arrival/departure times different to the JFK service?

Jamie2k9

sherology wrote: »

Re: DFW: Yeah... Good news to get some passenger # data for EI (or a continued AA service), but the flight arrival and departure times are at that peak CBP/T2 crunch time... So that'll be a gate taken up for 2hrs I guess?

Anywho... Good to see.

Its not in the peak particularly for departure.

[Deleted User]

JCX BXC wrote: »

Are the arrival/departure times different to the JFK service?

Yes, significantly different.

Shn99

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, significantly different.

JFK-DUB- 18:55 - 06:50
DUB-JFK- 08:55 - 11:25

DFW-DUB- 20:35 - 11:40
DUB-DFW- 13:40 - 17:45

goingnowhere

Well the JFK going will help on the ramp at peak times

13:40 wouldn't be peak time, its between the first wave of EI and most US carriers and the afternoon batch around 4pm

[Deleted User]

goingnowhere wrote: »

Well the JFK going will help on the ramp at peak times

13:40 wouldn't be peak time, its between the first wave of EI and most US carriers and the afternoon batch around 4pm

I suspect it will be quickly snapped up

Bussywussy

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

sherology wrote: »

Re: DFW: Yeah... Good news to get some passenger # data for EI (or a continued AA service), but the flight arrival and departure times are at that peak CBP/T2 crunch time... So that'll be a gate taken up for 2hrs I guess?

Anywho... Good to see.

Its not in the peak particularly for departure.

The ramp was mayhem with movement around that time last weekend.

Tenger

Deleted User wrote: »

I suspect it will be quickly snapped up

Maybe with 1 of the expected EI new routes.

Jamie2k9

Bussywussy wrote: »

The ramp was mayhem with movement around that time last weekend.

In terms of CBP processing capacity the 10.45-11.45 hour for departures is its peak, if OTP is good you lose DL x 2, AA x 1, EI x 3. They can always arrive elsewhere and move later. Did notice they have started closing all of E apart from 407-409 during this time. A 12.00 arrival would likely be better all the same.

Noxegon

Pittsburgh has just lost its CDG flight. Opportunity for EI?