AudreyHepburn wrote: » I support the good innocent men and women of the church who are being unfairly maligned in all this. The child abusers and those who aided and abetted them can rot in hell for all the damage they’ve caused.
timthumbni wrote: » Why can’t this pope bring over suitcases full of cash to start paying towards some of the many victims of child abuse within the Irish RC church?
AudreyHepburn wrote: » I’m going regardless but I hate the idea that doing so must mean I condone what happened to you and others or that I don’t support you.
eviltwin wrote: » No! I feel confused that people are going on Sunday but that's about it. I'm not angry or hurt by it. It is what it is. Look, this is one day out of many. The fight for justice and separation of church and state doesn't live or die by events at the weekend. The pope will come, people will attend events, he will leave and life will go on. We will keep on with it regardless of 100 people turning out or 100000. Follow your heart on this and if that means going to mass then so be it. There will be more opportunities for support.
One eyed Jack wrote: » Does anyone you know actually take your shìte seriously? Genuine question, I’d really like to know. Because I sure as hell can’t. For me, I couldn’t care less how my attendance at the final mass “appears” to you. Trying to tell people that if they’re a member of the Catholic Church they’re ok with child abuse? It’s that sort of nonsense rhetoric that prevents people from taking your point of view seriously.
AudreyHepburn wrote: » I did, you can say it, I understand.
AudreyHepburn wrote: » I did, you can say it, I understand. vicwatson too I think. I feel awful.
Fighting Tao wrote: » Supporting them by going to see the guy in charge who is choosing to ignore the child abuse etc. By ignoring and hidin it, it he is not condemning it and trying to weed it out of the RCC. That’s giving the signal that it’s ok to abuse children.
volchitsa wrote: » More and more, that appears to go right to the very top though. The Pope's refusal to take the latest information seriously (and remember he previously said that victims in Chile, IIRC, were liars before being forced to apologise) is evidence of that. Is there any point at which you would actually say "Enough, this institution has nothing to teach anyone about good"? If the Pope himself turned out to have known about abuse and covered it up, would that be enough? If he were an abuser? I'd be really interested to hear if there is anything that would change your mind? I suspect there isn't.
eviltwin wrote: » You didn't, not a bit.
AudreyHepburn wrote: » Ok this time I really am bowing out. I’m sorry for any anger or hurt I caused especially to eviltwin. I can’t help what I believe but I assure you I do not and never will support child abuse, homophobia or any of the other crimes perpetrated by the church.
Fighting Tao wrote: » It’s good to question rather than blindly follow. Hundreds of thousands will blindly follow and turn up on Sunday.
ziggy wrote: » This post has been deleted.
AudreyHepburn wrote: » Like I keep saying I struggle all the time with this and sometimes think I should just hide what I believe to avoid causing pain or upset. I want to got to the mass but yet this thread makes me feel like I shouldn’t or that I am hurting people by going. It really is a tough one.
Fighting Tao wrote: » Supporting them by going to see the guy in charge who is choosing to ignore the child abuse etc. By ignoring and hidin it, it he is not condemning it and trying to weed it out of the RCC.
volchitsa wrote: » I'm genuinely struggling to see how it's not? Why is the pope not cancelling all engagements to deal with these revelations? AFAICT, it is just yet another example of how the church has constantly downplayed and ignored previous cases of abuse until they were forced to acknowledge them, and even then they carried out the whole rigmarole of downplaying or ignoring every time there was a new one. If any other organisation acted like that, anyone who didn't boycott them, who continued to buy their merchandise would be seen as supporting them. Why should the church be treated differently? It's a genuine question and one nobody has answered.
AudreyHepburn wrote: » How can I not feel terrible - I told you I struggle with my faith all the time and discussions like this make it worse. I know you were angry with me as much as anyone and I understand and apologize again. No wonder you think my loyalty is to the evil bastards that hurt you.
eviltwin wrote: » Audrey don't feel terrible. Honestly I don't want you feeling like the bad guy here, your not and my anger isn't towards you or anyone else going. The whole thing is just too close for comfort and the coverage has been bringing up a load of stuff I haven't thought about in years. I'm heading off to rural Donegal tomorrow and getting away from it for a few days of self care. I'm sorry if you feel bad, say a little prayer on Sunday that people find peace. Everyone is entitled to their belief and to express it how they wish.
AudreyHepburn wrote: » I’m sorry to hear that and please please believe me when I say I think what happened to you and others was disgusting and that those responsible deserve to be punished painfully and over a long drawn out period of time. I appreciate your feelings towards the mass and I really honestly didn’t intend to cause you any pain or upset. Now I really do feel terrible. I’m sorry.
AudreyHepburn wrote: » I’m going to bow out now - this is an emotive topic and I don’t there will ever be a day where we all find common ground. At least not for a very long time. There’s not point in treading over the same ground again and again. I’ve said all I can say, I can’t change what I believe and no matter how much I try to explain my position there will be those who simply will not understand. If I have offended or annoyed anyone particularly anyone who has suffered at the church’s hands then I apologize. It wasn’t my intent and please don’t anyone think I don’t support the survivors to the hilt. I do and I hope those responsible are punished to the fullest extent.
