Should we protest against the pope's visit?

volchitsa wrote: »

I'm genuinely struggling to see how it's not?

Why is the pope not cancelling all engagements to deal with these revelations?

AFAICT, it is just yet another example of how the church has constantly downplayed and ignored previous cases of abuse until they were forced to acknowledge them, and even then they carried out the whole rigmarole of downplaying or ignoring every time there was a new one.

If any other organisation acted like that, anyone who didn't boycott them, who continued to buy their merchandise would be seen as supporting them. Why should the church be treated differently? It's a genuine question and one nobody has answered.

I support the good innocent men and women of the church who are being unfairly maligned in all this. The child abusers and those who aided and abetted them can rot in hell for all the damage they’ve caused.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I support the good innocent men and women of the church who are being unfairly maligned in all this. The child abusers and those who aided and abetted them can rot in hell for all the damage they’ve caused.

Supporting them by going to see the guy in charge who is choosing to ignore the child abuse etc. By ignoring and hidin it, it he is not condemning it and trying to weed it out of the RCC. That’s giving the signal that it’s ok to abuse children.

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Supporting them by going to see the guy in charge who is choosing to ignore the child abuse etc. By ignoring and hidin it, it he is not condemning it and trying to weed it out of the RCC.

Like I keep saying I struggle all the time with this and sometimes think I should just hide what I believe to avoid causing pain or upset.

I want to got to the mass but yet this thread makes me feel like I shouldn’t or that I am hurting people by going.

It really is a tough one.

ziggy

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AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Like I keep saying I struggle all the time with this and sometimes think I should just hide what I believe to avoid causing pain or upset.

I want to got to the mass but yet this thread makes me feel like I shouldn’t or that I am hurting people by going.

It really is a tough one.

It’s good to question rather than blindly follow. Hundreds of thousands will blindly follow and turn up on Sunday.

ziggy wrote: »

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I do care and I wish I could do something to change what happened or make it better.

All I can do is apologize for any upset I caused here. I feel genuinely awful.

Fighting Tao wrote: »

It’s good to question rather than blindly follow. Hundreds of thousands will blindly follow and turn up on Sunday.

I don’t blindly follow - I never have and that’s why I’m torn.

I can’t help what I believe but that doesn’t mean I’m unfeeling or that I don’t care about the hurt the church has caused.

ziggy

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Ok this time I really am bowing out. I’m sorry for any anger or hurt I caused especially to eviltwin.

I can’t help what I believe but I assure you I do not and never will support child abuse, homophobia or any of the other crimes perpetrated by the church.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Ok this time I really am bowing out. I’m sorry for any anger or hurt I caused especially to eviltwin.

I can’t help what I believe but I assure you I do not and never will support child abuse, homophobia or any of the other crimes perpetrated by the church.

You didn't, not a bit.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Ok this time I really am bowing out. I’m sorry for any anger or hurt I caused especially to eviltwin.

I can’t help what I believe but I assure you I do not and never will support child abuse, homophobia or any of the other crimes perpetrated by the church.

See ya, have a great day supporting the Roman Catholic Church. Mind that conscience of yours

eviltwin wrote: »

You didn't, not a bit.

I did, you can say it, I understand. vicwatson too I think.

I feel awful.

Reeling in the Years 2018: Over 400k people applaud the pope on his leadership in covering up and enabling child abuse.

I wonder what song would be played in the background because music is a bit crap these days.

volchitsa

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I support the good innocent men and women of the church who are being unfairly maligned in all this. The child abusers and those who aided and abetted them can rot in hell for all the damage they’ve caused.

More and more, that appears to go right to the very top though.
The Pope's refusal to take the latest information seriously (and remember he previously said that victims in Chile, IIRC, were liars before being forced to apologise) is evidence of that.

Is there any point at which you would actually say "Enough, this institution has nothing to teach anyone about good"? If the Pope himself turned out to have known about abuse and covered it up, would that be enough? If he were an abuser? I'd be really interested to hear if there is anything that would change your mind? I suspect there isn't.

volchitsa wrote: »

More and more, that appears to go right to the very top though.
The Pope's refusal to take the latest information seriously (and remember he previously said that victims in Chile, IIRC, were liars before being forced to apologise) is evidence of that.

Is there any point at which you would actually say "Enough, this institution has nothing to teach anyone about good"? If the Pope himself turned out to have known about abuse and covered it up, would that be enough? If he were an abuser? I'd be really interested to hear if there is anything that would change your mind? I suspect there isn't.

Yes that would do it. And if I thought that every single member of the church was involved that would do it too.

One eyed Jack

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Supporting them by going to see the guy in charge who is choosing to ignore the child abuse etc. By ignoring and hidin it, it he is not condemning it and trying to weed it out of the RCC. That’s giving the signal that it’s ok to abuse children.

Does anyone you know actually take your shìte seriously? Genuine question, I’d really like to know. Because I sure as hell can’t. For me, I couldn’t care less how my attendance at the final mass “appears” to you. Trying to tell people that if they’re a member of the Catholic Church they’re ok with child abuse? It’s that sort of nonsense rhetoric that prevents people from taking your point of view seriously.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I did, you can say it, I understand. vicwatson too I think.

I feel awful.

I forgive you

Just like this and previous popes have forgiven nonces

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I did, you can say it, I understand.

No! I feel confused that people are going on Sunday but that's about it. I'm not angry or hurt by it. It is what it is. Look, this is one day out of many. The fight for justice and separation of church and state doesn't live or die by events at the weekend. The pope will come, people will attend events, he will leave and life will go on. We will keep on with it regardless of 100 people turning out or 100000. Follow your heart on this and if that means going to mass then so be it. There will be more opportunities for support.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Does anyone you know actually take your shìte seriously? Genuine question, I’d really like to know. Because I sure as hell can’t. For me, I couldn’t care less how my attendance at the final mass “appears” to you. Trying to tell people that if they’re a member of the Catholic Church they’re ok with child abuse? It’s that sort of nonsense rhetoric that prevents people from taking your point of view seriously.

Are you going? :eek::D

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Does anyone you know actually take your shìte seriously? Genuine question, I’d really like to know. Because I sure as hell can’t. For me, I couldn’t care less how my attendance at the final mass “appears” to you. Trying to tell people that if they’re a member of the Catholic Church they’re ok with child abuse? It’s that sort of nonsense rhetoric that prevents people from taking your point of view seriously.

CEOs drop everything to deal with serious issues. I’d consider what’s happening with the current child abuse scandal quite serious. The pope should be dropping everything and personally handling it.

Yes, turning up and applauding him is saying all he’s doing is great. Glad you feel happy about it all.

eviltwin wrote: »

No! I feel confused that people are going on Sunday but that's about it. I'm not angry or hurt by it. It is what it is. Look, this is one day out of many. The fight for justice and separation of church and state doesn't live or die by events at the weekend. The pope will come, people will attend events, he will leave and life will go on. We will keep on with it regardless of 100 people turning out or 100000. Follow your heart on this and if that means going to mass then so be it. There will be more opportunities for support.

I’m going regardless but I hate the idea that doing so must mean I condone what happened to you and others or that I don’t support you.

timthumbni

Why can’t this pope bring over suitcases full of cash to start paying towards some of the many victims of child abuse within the Irish RC church?

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I’m going regardless but I hate the idea that doing so must mean I condone what happened to you and others or that I don’t support you.

I thought you were going, as in going away?

timthumbni wrote: »

Why can’t this pope bring over suitcases full of cash to start paying towards some of the many victims of child abuse within the Irish RC church?

He needs to talk to the Vatican bank about getting some of the laundered stuff

Seth Brundle

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I support the good innocent men and women of the church who are being unfairly maligned in all this. The child abusers and those who aided and abetted them can rot in hell for all the damage they’ve caused.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

vicwatson wrote: »

I thought you were going, as in going away?

I was but I wanted to respond to eviltwin first. I’m going now don’t worry.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I’m going regardless but I hate the idea that doing so must mean I condone what happened to you and others or that I don’t support you.

No I know you don't but I'm worried a large turnout will make those in the hierarchy think they have support. They'll have no incentive to make amends.

JupiterKid

I really don’t care at this stage. If I heard that the Catholic Church machine gunned down hundreds of children with Uzis in a warehouse I wouldn’t be surprised. Their wickedness and depravity has no bounds.

They are essentially finished as a force with any sort of power in this country.

I live right beside the Park and I’m more pissed off that my road and those in my neighborhood will be closed for the duration of this charade. Being hemmed in is pretty inconvenient.