AudreyHepburn wrote: » It’s obvious we’re never going to agree so let’s leave it there. I’ll respectfully ask you again to stop making assertions about what I do and don’t support. I’m not homophobic nor do I think child abuse is ok or any of the horrible acts the church committed for that matter and I’d appreciate it if you’d stop suggesting otherwise.
AudreyHepburn wrote: » work wrote: » so you completely don't support the church due to the paedophilia, subsequent cover up+++, hate of gays and children out of wedlock BUT you will go as something to look back on and because of your faith (belief in something with no basis or evidence). How can you sell that to yourself it seems insane logic.....?? I’m not seeing the problem to be honest - I’m going because of my faith not the organization, how hard is that to understand. If it makes anyone here feel any better know that I struggled for a long tome with my faith and I even try to make myself not believe because sometimes you feel like a criminal for saying you believe in god. But no matter how hard I tried I just couldn’t not believe. I didn’t get to where I am without a lot of hard thinking and worrying about how I’d be perceived in modern day Ireland. I’m not a sheep or an apologist. I’m just who has great faith and who won’t let a few evil individuals turn her away from that. If that angers, upsets or in way bothers people here I can only apologize but I can’t change it.
work wrote: » so you completely don't support the church due to the paedophilia, subsequent cover up+++, hate of gays and children out of wedlock BUT you will go as something to look back on and because of your faith (belief in something with no basis or evidence). How can you sell that to yourself it seems insane logic.....??
Fighting Tao wrote: » I never said you were homophobic or that you think child abuse is ok. Please stop making things up. I stated that by going you are supporting and validating the RCC.
AudreyHepburn wrote: » And thereby supporting all the evil things they’ve done which I have made clear that I do not. As I said let’s agree to disagree. I don’t want to cause anymore annoyance or anger, it really wasn’t my intent. I came here to be part of the discussion not upset or anger anyone.
AudreyHepburn wrote: » It’s not as black and white as you would like it to be I’m afraid. I don’t need the church and never said otherwise. But my faith is important to me and it’s that that I’ll celebrate on Sunday. My faith not the organization. .
I’m not homophobic nor do I agree with child abuse, shaming unwed mothers or any other accusation you care to level at me and I’d appreciate if you didn’t make such assertions.
work wrote: » In all fairness I applaud your strength to stand up to the posts being levelled at you. I also cannot agree ever, to me it is like saying I don't support the killing of need but otherwise support the Nazi party. Sorry for the crude analogy but the crimes if the church are getting that bad. You say you do not support the organisation so why not have faith at home or with another less evil organisation.
AudreyHepburn wrote: » Why should I let a few evil individuals turn me away from my faith?
eviltwin wrote: » A lot of the people you are going to see are involved in the cover up of child abuse, have activity sought to bury any restitution to victims. Many are actively anti gay, anti women's autonomy. I don't believe for one moment you condone it but you're not exactly condemning it either by attending. I just can't understand how you can compartmentalize like that. I don't know how people can stand to be in the same space as those people. Eta I'm not trying to guilt you or make you feel bad and if it means that much to you of course you should go. I'm just interested in how people are able to park their horror of the abuse to go receive mass from people who continue to endorse it and facilitate it.
AudreyHepburn wrote: » Why should I let a few evil individuals turn me away from my faith? I’ll say again that I really struggled with this and still do but ultimately my faith and beliefs are what they are and all I can do is apologize again for annoyance I’ve caused here.
donspeekinglesh wrote: » Your belief in god does not need to be tied to the catholic church.
AudreyHepburn wrote: » It feels like a guilt trip a lot of the time to be honest whether or not that’s your own or anyone else’s intent. I suppose it’s about accepting and understanding that not very single solitary member of the church is evil personified and wanting to show support to all the good men and women who are unfairly maligned.
eviltwin wrote: » Why not show support with the victims?
AudreyHepburn wrote: » What gives you the idea that I don’t support them? Of course I do. Again just because I’m going to the park doesn’t mean I think what happened was ok. I think it was disgusting.
AudreyHepburn wrote: » I’m going to bow out now - this is an emotive topic and I don’t there will ever be a day where we all find common ground. At least not for a very long time. There’s not point in treading over the same ground again and again. I’ve said all I can say, I can’t change what I believe and no matter how much I try to explain my position there will be those who simply will not understand. If I have offended or annoyed anyone particularly anyone who has suffered at the church’s hands then I apologize. It wasn’t my intent and please don’t anyone think I don’t support the survivors to the hilt. I do and I hope those responsible are punished to the fullest extent.
Fighting Tao wrote: » The head of any organisation would cancel all plans to deal any ongoing scandals. Why is the pope not handling Pennsylvania directly rather than travelling to Ireland? How come he is hiding from it? People who go are supporting his choice to avoid what is happening in the US in his organisation. They are supporting his avoidance of the issue. They are supporting him in his protection of the clergy involved in the US and in the protection of the RCC.
AudreyHepburn wrote: » Oh get off your pedestal - you know nothing of me or my loyalties so don’t pretend you do.
AudreyHepburn wrote: Oh get off your pedestal - you know nothing of me or my loyalties so don’t pretend you do
eviltwin wrote: » I've earned my place on a pedestal Audrey. I went through years of sexual assault and rape at the hands of a priest along with others. At least two of those who should be there on Sunday won't be because they couldn't deal with it anymore. I've never got justice and never will because that person was shielded until his death by the very people who will be on that stage on Sunday. Forgive me if the entire spectacle is upsetting and infuriating. But that's my sh1t to deal with not yours. I sincerely hope you enjoy Sunday and get what you want from it. I just don't understand it.
Fighting Tao wrote: » Did you type that while in your high horse? :pac:
AudreyHepburn wrote: » I’m sorry to hear that and please please believe me when I say I think what happened to you and others was disgusting and that those responsible deserve to be punished painfully and over a long drawn out period of time. I appreciate your feelings towards the mass and I really honestly didn’t intend to cause you any pain or upset. Now I really do feel terrible. I’m sorry.
eviltwin wrote: » Audrey don't feel terrible. Honestly I don't want you feeling like the bad guy here, your not and my anger isn't towards you or anyone else going. The whole thing is just too close for comfort and the coverage has been bringing up a load of stuff I haven't thought about in years. I'm heading off to rural Donegal tomorrow and getting away from it for a few days of self care. I'm sorry if you feel bad, say a little prayer on Sunday that people find peace. Everyone is entitled to their belief and to express it how they wish.
AudreyHepburn wrote: » How can I not feel terrible - I told you I struggle with my faith all the time and discussions like this make it worse. I know you were angry with me as much as anyone and I understand and apologize again. No wonder you think my loyalty is to the evil bastards that hurt you.
