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Women who are "not maternal" having kids

professore

This is one I've seen a lot. Women who say they aren't maternal having kids. Why would you have kids if you're not maternal? At least for a man who isn't paternal he doesn't have to go through 9 months of pregnancy etc and often will do it for his wife's sake because she wants kids. And while dads are important despite what we like to think the mother has a huge influence on her kids, that can't be replaced. So putting them last is very damaging.

Do non maternal women do it for other people's sake? Is it pure animal desire to reproduce? Or what is the reason?

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Hector Bellend

professore wrote: »

This is one I've seen a lot. Women who say they aren't maternal having kids. Why would you have kids if you're not maternal? At least for a man who isn't paternal he doesn't have to go through 9 months of pregnancy etc and often will do it for his wife's sake because she wants kids. And while dads are important despite what we like to think the mother has a huge influence on her kids. So putting them last is very damaging.

Do non maternal women do it for other people's sake? Is it pure animal desire to reproduce? Or what is the reason?

Wheel a pram into a room full of women and see who isnt "maternal"

The vast majority will cream their undies

professore

Bluestone100 wrote: »

Perhaps fear of being forgotten, of being old and lonely and irrelevant.

The thing is if you are cold to your kids you won't be forgotten - you'll be resented and quite possibly shunned when they grow up.

.......

professore wrote: »

Do non maternal women do it for other people's sake? Is it pure animal desire to reproduce? Or what is the reason?

Up to recently abortion was illegal in Ireland and no contraception is 100% effective.

Edgware

....... wrote: »

Up to recently abortion was illegal in Ireland and no contraception is 100% effective.

Abortion is still illegal

professore

Hector Bellend wrote: »

Wheel a pram into a room full of women and see who isnt "maternal"

The vast majority will cream their undies

True but some women(a small minority but not insignificant, I know a few of them) have no interest in babies and are horrible to their kids, they see them as a hindrance to their social life. Maybe it's just mental illness.

professore

....... wrote: »

Up to recently abortion was illegal in Ireland and no contraception is 100% effective.

I don't buy that, some of the women I know consciously had several children.

Hector Bellend

professore wrote: »

True but some women(a small minority but not insignificant, I know a few of them) have no interest in babies and are horrible to their kids, they see them as a hindrance to their social life. Maybe it's just mental illness.

But they have kids.

Why didnt they pack rubber so to speak

.......

professore wrote: »

I don't buy that, some of the women I know consciously had several children.

My mother didnt want kids, her mother didnt, maybe I come from a long line of women who didnt want kids and Im the first to be able to exercise enough control over my body AND be accepted in society for not having them.

Contraception wasnt widely available in Ireland until the 90s and even then some doctors wouldnt prescribe the pill unless you were married.

No abortion, no roles for women in society if they werent wives and mothers.

I look around now and see it changing, I dont have kids, nor do some of my friends (not all by choice), but women certainly have choices now that they didnt have even 25 years ago.

silverharp

professore wrote: »

True but some women(a small minority but not insignificant, I know a few of them) have no interest in babies and are horrible to their kids, they see them as a hindrance to their social life. Maybe it's just mental illness.

i'd know a lot of couples but i never got the impression that any of the mothers saw their kids as a problem. what kind of poor schmucks are they with? from the male perspective if you are going to settle down and create a family wouldnt you screen out women who you guage would not make good mothers

DaeryssaOne

Probably because even though they're not maternal they feel a pressure from society / family / husband that having kids is the next 'box to tick' so to speak.

I'm not pushed about having kids myself but can also feel the pressure where I am the only one left of a big group of friends that's not and it can almost feel like you're stagnating if you don't take the next step and have a family.

By the way in response to that (disgusting) comment above about a pram being wheeled into a room - I would try to find the exit if I'm honest. Now....bring a kitten or puppy into a room and that's very different!

sbsquarepants

professore wrote: »

Do non maternal women do it for other people's sake? Is it pure animal desire to reproduce? Or what is the reason?

Some do it to get a house and a good night out every 1st Tuesday of the month:)

PlaneSpeeking

Hector Bellend wrote: »

Wheel a pram into a room full of women and see who isnt "maternal"

The vast majority will cream their undies

Thankfully not all of us!

Said at 14 I didn't want kids. Put up with decades of "ah you'll change your mind"; "don't you want one of those ?"; "it's not natural to not want kids".

Etc etc

Hate kids, don't want em and don't want to be around them. People who don't want them should stand their ground and not have them.

I don't see a plus in having an unwanted child.

professore

....... wrote: »

My mother didnt want kids, her mother didnt, maybe I come from a long line of women who didnt want kids and Im the first to be able to exercise enough control over my body AND be accepted in society for not having them.

Contraception wasnt widely available in Ireland until the 90s and even then some doctors wouldnt prescribe the pill unless you were married.

No abortion, no roles for women in society if they werent wives and mothers.

I look around now and see it changing, I dont have kids, nor do some of my friends (not all by choice), but women certainly have choices now that they didnt have even 25 years ago.

So socal acceptance. I get that. However there are still some having kids and it's far more socially acceptable now, and plenty of contraception available.

professore

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Thankfully not all of us!

Said at 14 I didn't want kids. Put up with decades of "ah you'll change your mind"; "don't you want one of those ?"; "it's not natural to not want kids".

Etc etc

Hate kids, don't want em and don't want to be around them. People who don't want them should stand their ground and not have them.

I don't see a plus in having an unwanted child.

See this would be the sensible attitude IMO.

PlaneSpeeking

DaeryssaOne wrote: »

Probably because even though they're not maternal they feel a pressure from society / family / husband that having kids is the next 'box to tick' so to speak.

I'm not pushed about having kids myself but can also feel the pressure where I am the only one left of a big group of friends that's not and it can almost feel like you're stagnating if you don't take the next step and have a family.

By the way in response to that (disgusting) comment above about a pram being wheeled into a room - I would try to find the exit if I'm honest. Now....bring a kitten or puppy into a room and that's very different!

Actually had a situation years ago where a colleague brought her newborn in and one of the other staff brought his Weimeraner puppy in.

12 one way - me the other!!!!!

professore

It appears to me like a box ticking exercise, I have the house with the big mortgage and the kitchen island , the husband with a sensible career, and two kids that match the decor, I've got it made!

That's what I see mainly. If the kids do well in school it's bragging rights but there is no love or affection there.

seamus

"Not maternal" just means that taking care of children doesn't come naturally to them. It doesn't mean that they don't like or want kids.

For the most part, women who are "maternal" just have experience of it; they've experience in younger years of minding kids.

PlaneSpeeking

seamus wrote: »

"Not maternal" just means that taking care of children doesn't come naturally to them. It doesn't mean that they don't like or want kids.

For the most part, women who are "maternal" just have experience of it; they've experience in younger years of minding kids.

It's not as black and white as that.

You cannot speak for all women. I could easily take care of a child, I simply have zero desire to.

You are doing a disservice to many women by saying that when we say we don't like children we are lying and the real reason is we're not up the job.

Shame on you.

seamus

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

It's not as black and white as that.

You cannot speak for all women. I could easily take care of a child, I simply have zero desire to.

You are doing a disservice to many women by saying that when we say we don't like children we are lying and the real reason is we're not up the job.

Shame on you.

I...didn't.

Maybe re-read my post and you'll see that this terrible insult isn't there?

.......

professore wrote: »

So socal acceptance. I get that. However there are still some having kids and it's far more socially acceptable now, and plenty of contraception available.

Agreed.

I see far more men who had no interest in children having them and being quite miserable disinterested fathers - for the first few years anyway.

neonsofa

I have found that a lot of people really want a baby. They are broody for a cute baby but kind of ignore the fact that the baby is a developing human.

PlaneSpeeking

seamus wrote: »

I...didn't.

Maybe re-read my post and you'll see that this terrible insult isn't there?

I'm looking right at the post and it very much is.

"... doesn't come naturally to them... rather than "don't like or want kids".

How hard is it to accept many women do not like children ?

PlaneSpeeking

neonsofa wrote: »

I have found that a lot of people really want a baby. They are broody for a cute baby but kind of ignore the fact that the baby is a developing human.

Ah the "I want a little princess to dress up" or "I want a little soldier to be just like me".

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

pickarooney

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I'm looking right at the post and it very much is.

"... doesn't come naturally to them... rather than "don't like or want kids".

How hard is it to accept many women do not like children ?

He also didn't say that 'non-maternal' women do want kids. If you're picking that up it's more on your interpretation or predisposition to find offence than anything explicit in the text.

seamus

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

How hard is it to accept many women do not like children ?

I didn't say otherwise.

The OP questioned why a "not maternal" woman would have children. I'm simply saying that just because a woman is "not maternal", doesn't mean she doesn't want kids.

There are lots of women who are "maternal", great with kids and child-rearing comes naturally to them, who have no interest in having kids of their own.

"maternal" and "not maternal" when used to describe someone's character, is nothing to do with whether someone wants kids, and I've never heard it used that way.

Malayalam

seamus wrote: »

"Not maternal" just means that taking care of children doesn't come naturally to them. It doesn't mean that they don't like or want kids.

For the most part, women who are "maternal" just have experience of it; they've experience in younger years of minding kids.

Yeah, i agree with that. I am the oldest of a big family, always maternal due to conditioning probably, raising kids since I was 4. But I think some of the mothers being cold to their kids is post facto. It's not that they have children despite being 'not maternal', like ticking off some box or other - its that they have children without thinking too much about it and then afterwards discover that squelching their own selfishness or grumpiness or controlling personalities is too much of an effort and they just don't do it and are non maternal post facto. It's also part of a narcissistic generation/culture where some - post childbirth - find it hard to shift the focus off themselves and onto a dependent child for the years required to raise them. Pity for the kids who have to vie for attention with the black scrying mirror of a smart phone.

Malayalam

neonsofa wrote: »

I have found that a lot of people really want a baby. They are broody for a cute baby but kind of ignore the fact that the baby is a developing human.

Thats true too. When the cute baby develops a contrary will it brings up a lot of subconscious animus in some mothers.

[Deleted User]

Girlfriend hates kids and while she liked her nephew at 6 months, she can't be arsed with him now at a year and a half. She loves him but doesn't like babysitting him at all. I'm much the same and am glad it will never happen since we found out she can't anyway.

Shenshen

My best guess is social pressure. And to some extend, living in denial.

I'm mostly basing that on my own mother, to be honest. She grew up with the notion that to have a good life as a woman, you marry and have children. And then you'll be happy.
She fully internalised that, I don't think she ever questioned this narrative until much, much later in her life. At which point she already had 3 children, but the promised happiness was just not materialising.

I don't believe that she at any point took enough time for herself to reflect that maybe she wasn't maternal, and maybe having children wouldn't increase her happiness in life, let alone that it may be detrimental to the children themselves. It certainly doesn't help that anytime you mention not particularly liking kids, the response you'll get from most people will be "Ah, but that'll be different once they're your own!". Of course, by the time you find out that they're talking out their arses, you already have the children. And children are non-returnable.

I believe many women to this day fall for the same fairy-tale that we have repeated at us ad nauseam until we exit child-bearing age.

neonsofa

Malayalam wrote: »

Yeah, i agree with that. I am the oldest of a big family, always maternal due to conditioning probably, raising kids since I was 4. But I think some of the mothers being cold to their kids is post facto. It's not that they have children despite being 'not maternal', like ticking off some box or other - its that they have children without thinking too much about it and then afterwards discover that squelching their own selfishness or grumpiness or controlling personalities is too much of an effort and they just don't do it and are non maternal post facto. It's also part of a narcissistic generation/culture where some - post childbirth - find it hard to shift the focus off themselves and onto a dependent child for the years required to raise them. Pity for the kids who have to vie for attention with the black scrying mirror of a smart phone.

This is very true. I never realised just how difficult and overwhelming parenting can be until I did it myself. I love minding kids, especially babies, but being fully responsible for a person without being able to hand them back to someone else is an entirely different thing, and some people just don't realise that until they are in it. Also, after a few years of that constant responsibility you can just become jaded. I feel the need to add that I am a loving parent despite how the above sounds :pac: