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Non LGBT+ Modding of the LGBT forums

JackTaylorFan

So, I can say officially this forum has become unfit for purpose.

A few things I will address here (at risk of being banned):

__________________

Firstly, to the non-LGBT Mod in question:

I now have non-LGBT mods tone-policing me on an LGBT forum because the one remaining active mod is apparently unwilling to mod me. I was made aware of this via, the latest condescending PM from a mod who refused to qualify their understanding on LGBT matters and just spouted fluff instead.

The following is a message I received from non-LGBT mod, Big Bag of Chips. regarding my "posting style" in the LGBT forum:

<SNIP> Posting content of PMs not allowed unless approved by both parties or part of the DR process

Apparently, this is grounds for sanctioning now -i.e. use of impolite emoticons.

So quick question: why are theses emoticons available at all them? And why did the mod is question think it okay to use the same sarcy emoticon in reply to my PM?

<SNIP>

A tad hypocritical don't you think? :rolleyes:

Also, BBoC, just because you modded a "phobia forum" once does not give you an in-depth knowledge of the struggles facing a minority. You literally have no lived-in experience of the individuals you are, in effect, censoring. And as such, on a forum designated for transpeople, your self-referential appropriation of such a role is entirely inappropriate.

In fact, I would say it undermines this whole forum.
__________________________

To the LGBT+ people on this forum, who have apparently been reporting me for not being a very nice person to obvious trolls and transphobes, I say this: tough.

If how I choose to engage with these malignant members of Boards makes you uncomfortable, again, I say: tough. And if you think using a rolleyes emoticon is an over the top reaction to someone excusing both verbal and physical assault of a transperson, then I regard you as bad as the people spouting that nonsense. The simple fact is, the protection of transpeople on here is inadequate. We are almost 30 years behind in our struggle for acceptance, and we are in a dogfight.

So as long as this forum continues to call itself LGBT, transpeople have every right to voice their concerns without constant harassment from both non-LGBT and indeed the LGB part of that acronym. Sadly, we are not at all protected from the constant trolling that occurs on here. If it's not endless questions asked in bad faith (or sealoining as the modern trolling devise is known), on issues that matter to transpeople, it's blatant sockpuppet threads started by suspect accounts in an attempt to rile up controversy https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057893933. And reporting these obvious inflammatory posts does nothing either. The whole thing is a bad joke.

Furthermore, I do not owe any cisgendered person an education on trans issues, here or anywhere else for that matter. The onus to be educated is on every each individual, and we live in a world where this information is not hard to find either. Google exists, as so many of you demonstrate when looking for articles that prop-up your anti-trans agenda on here, and I find it more than a little curious that some of you have so much knowledge on matters concerning transpeople's existence until it comes to actually supporting us. Very ****ing curious.

Finally (before I more than likely get banned), this forum is not about non-LGBT people and their need to be mollified, but that is somehow what it has become. And so I will reiterate the point: The is forum is unfit for its purpose.

So yeah, if the non-LGBT mods or any other mod wants to ban me. Cool.

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eviltwin

How do you know if mods, or anyone else posting here, is LGBT or not

imme

I don't think a person has to be LGBT etc to mod a forum.
That is just common sense to me.

As I understand in general terms about boards, mods are volunteers
I don't see mods having to be so hands on in many other parts of boards.

My 2 cents

Big Bag of Chips

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

So yeah, if the non-LGBT mods or any other mod wants to ban me. Cool.

Happy to oblige.

Take 2 weeks to consider your posting style, that is the only relevant issue here.

dudara

As this relates to a problem with a particular forum, I’m moving this to the Help Desk.

Firstly, you have posted the content of Private Messages in Public. That is not allowed, unless you have the permission of both parties, or it is in support of the Dispute Resolution process. I have snipped the PMs. Do not do this again.

Secondly, people moderating a forum do not have to explicitly be from that community. Boards has never ever made that a condition of modship. It’s obviously good to have mods from the community, but it’s also equally good to have mods from outside the community who can bring a different perspective, or who can stay neutral when there are opposing sides. In this case BBoC is providing holiday cover for the forum, but they are also an experienced mod and CMod.

JackTaylorFan

eviltwin wrote: »

How do you know if mods, or anyone else posting here, is LGBT or not

Becaus3 I asked them. And after refusing to directly answer the question the first time. They gave me a flippant answer about how modding a phobia forum was the same as modding LGBT+ issues.

JackTaylorFan

imme wrote: »

I don't think a person has to be LGBT etc to mod a forum.
That is just common sense to me.

As I understand in general terms about boards, mods are volunteers
I don't see mods having to be so hands on in many other parts of boards.

My 2 cents

With all due respect, I totally disagree. As a trans person I feel highly uncomfortable with a non-LGBT person modding important trans issues they haven't got the first clue about. It's bad enough we only have one gay man - and up till recently - a lesbian modding the forum. There apparently is a another mod, but they have not been active in so long, they are literally redundant.

Trans people are not protected properly on that thread. The charter needs a serious update in what is considered harassment too. I honestly believe that LGB people are subjected to a ton of ridiculous trolling as well, but as for one of you guys to speak up about out.

As a member of the T part of the community, I am absolutely disgusted with the way that forum is handling non-LGBT trolling it would be like going down to my local LGBT centre and being confronted by a load of straight people telling me I owe them explanations for my existence, all the while being ignorant and offensive and ignoring anything I say. While they offered tea by non-lgbt members of staff at the centre.

That's the level the forum is at..

JackTaylorFan

dudara wrote: »

As this relates to a problem with a particular forum,

Secondly, people moderating a forum do not have to explicitly be from that community. Boards has never ever made that a condition of modship. It’s obviously good to have mods from the community, but it’s also equally good to have mods from outside the community who can bring a different perspective, or who can stay neutral when there are opposing sides. In this case BBoC is providing holiday cover for the forum, but they are also an experienced mod and CMod.

Thanks for at least continuing the discussion.

But as I said to the other person, it is entirely inappropriate a non-LGBT member be modding that forum.

This is not like running a "phobia forum" as was the flippant reply I received in query to the qualifications of the mod in question - this is a forum that deals with important social issues (I am talking specifically about trans issues here) that having in-depth knowledge only comes with living the life. It requires a sensitivity and understanding that, no offence, straight people couldn't possibly grasp, and gay people to a lesser extent.

JackTaylorFan

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Happy to oblige.

Take 2 weeks to consider your posting style, that is the only relevant issue here.

The irony of a non-lgbt member telling a transperson what is relevant regarding the running of an LGBT forum is not lost on me in the slightest. Boards is stuck in the 90s it appears.

Will I Am Not

Do all the other posters have an issue with that mod or is it just yourself?

TheValeyard

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

The irony of a non-lgbt member telling a transperson what is relevant regarding the running of an LGBT forum is not lost on me in the slightest. Boards is stuck in the 90s it appears.

No its not.

What you're proposing is actually a form of segregation.

Mods should be chosen for their ability, not gender, sexuality, race, religion, etc

JackTaylorFan

Will I Am Not wrote: »

Do all the other posters have an issue with that mod or is it just yourself?

I'll guess we'll find out, won't we.

As a transperson, I do believe some of the LGB part will not back me up on this - because, honestly I imagine many of them are uncomfortable with us in the first place.

I have an issue with any mod who is not LGBT on an LGBT forum, it is as simple as that. And as someone actively involved in that forum, discussing issues that affect my life, I should have a say on the caliber of people modding me.

Honestly, you may as well close down the forum if the modding is just going to be the same people modding all the other deeply transphobic parts of Boards. Charters are one thing; dismissive attitudes and ignorance are another, and that's what non-LGBT mods bring.

JackTaylorFan

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

No its not.

What you're proposing is actually a form of segregation.

Mods should be chosen for their ability, not gender, sexuality, race, religion, etc

It's not segregation, it's about protecting vulnerable people. That is the whole purpose of LGBT+ centres and spaces across the globe.

The forum is designated as an LGBT place. And as such should be handled by LGBT people. Of course, non-LGBT people are welcome, but they take a back seat and if they are not there to listen then they don't belong at all. Sorry, that's just how it is.

Ezra Wibberley

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

It's not segregation, it's about protecting vulnerable people. That is the whole purpose of LGBT+ centres and spaces across the globe.

The forum is designated as an LGBT place. And as such should be handled by LGBT people. Of course, non-LGBT people are welcome, but they take a back seat and if they are not there to listen then they don't belong at all. Sorry, that's just how it is.

JackTaylorFan has to be one of the angriest people on boards. Never a good word to say. Never positive. Always complaining, fighting, dissenting. Seems to be putting up barriers rather than trying to break down walls.

Will I Am Not

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

I'll guess we'll find out, won't we.

As a transperson, I do believe some of the LGB part will not back me up on this - because, honestly I imagine many of them are uncomfortable with us in the first place.

I have an issue with any mod who is not LGBT on an LGBT forum, it is as simple as that. And as someone actively involved in that forum, discussing issues that affect my life, I should have a say on the caliber of people modding me.

Honestly, you may as well close down the forum if the modding is just going to be the same people modding all the other deeply transphobic parts of Boards. Charters are one thing; dismissive attitudes and ignorance are another, and that's what non-LGBT mods bring.

I have plenty of issues with boards and how it’s run but it’s not my site and I don’t expect them to bow to my demands or the demands of any other individual poster.

Twat-Badger

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

Of course, non-LGBT people are welcome, but they take a back seat and if they are not there to listen then they don't belong at all. Sorry, that's just how it is.

I wonder could you be so kind as to highlight the forum charter that directs that as a non LGBT individual should I venture into the LGBT forum I should take a back seat.

and while you're at it if you could also highlight the portion that tells me that if I'm not prepared to listen, I don't belong.

JackTaylorFan

Will I Am Not wrote: »

I have plenty of issues with boards and how it’s run but it’s not my site and I don’t expect them to bow to my demands or the demands of any other individual poster.

Are you a member of the LGBT community?

Yes or no? Simple answer. Not, "no, but some of my friends are..." are any of that nonsense. Yes or no?

yes: you have a say on LGBT matters

no: you don't

JackTaylorFan

Twat-Badger wrote: »

I wonder could you be so kind as to highlight the forum charter that directs that as a non LGBT individual should I venture into the LGBT forum I should take a back seat.

and while you're at it if you could also highlight the portion that tells me that if I'm not prepared to listen, I don't belong.

It is all implied, to be quite blunt.

But even so, I share you concern: the charter needs a few addendums for the year 2018.

JackTaylorFan

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

JackTaylorFan has to be one of the angriest people on boards. Never a good word to say. Never positive. Always complaining, fighting, dissenting. Seems to be putting up barriers rather than trying to break down walls.

A completely personal attack. Not even attempting to discuss the subject.

eviltwin

I've used the forum for years now and moderation has always been consistent and fair imo. I don't see any difference between those who are openly LGBT and those who may not be.

It would be ridiculous to require mods to meet any kind of standard, once they can do the job their sexuality shouldn't be an issue.

Jack you've been combative and aggressive from day 1. The problem isn't the forum, it's you. There is huge support and empathy on the forum if you could only see it.

Twat-Badger

So these rules that you reference with such unabashed authority don't really exist at all then?

The Bishop Basher

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

Furthermore, I do not owe any cisgendered person an education on trans issues, here or anywhere else for that matter. The onus to be educated is on every each individual, and we live in a world where this information is not hard to find either.

Well firstly i'm not cis gendered, i'm just gendered so i'd appreciate it if you'd stop misgendering people on here.

And secondly, why do you think people should be educated about a "disorder" that effects .3% of the population. What makes you that special ?

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

Are you a member of the LGBT community?

Yes or no? Simple answer. Not, "no, but some of my friends are..." are any of that nonsense. Yes or no?

yes: you have a say on LGBT matters

no: you don't

You make up .3% of the population. You're rattling on ad nauseum about rights and yet no one else gets to have a say on it..

Frankly, no one cares..

ohnonotgmail

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

A completely personal attack. Not even attempting to discuss the subject.

It was an observation not an attack. One that I, an I imagine a lot more here, agree with.

Will I Am Not

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

Are you a member of the LGBT community?

Yes or no? Simple answer. Not, "no, but some of my friends are..." are any of that nonsense. Yes or no?

yes: you have a say on LGBT matters

no: you don't

I’m not but have about the same rights as you on the running of that forum. Zero.

dudara

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

Are you a member of the LGBT community?

Yes or no? Simple answer. Not, "no, but some of my friends are..." are any of that nonsense. Yes or no?

yes: you have a say on LGBT matters

no: you don't

JTF - if I took that logic and extrapolated it, then people who were not impacted by same-sex marriage should not have been allowed vote in the referendum etc.

I do believe that the LGBT forum should be welcoming & supportive. Do I believe it should be insular and unwelcoming to non-LGBT posters? No. I’m sure that many Boards posters have learned about LGBT issues as a result of the discussions here and the experiences shared.

JackTaylorFan

eviltwin wrote: »

I've used the forum for years now and moderation has always been consistent and fair imo. I don't see any difference between those who are openly LGBT and those who may not be.

Yes, but the simple fact, up till very, very recently all the mods have been LGBT with no interference from non-LGBT mods. You're acting like this has always been the case, that non-LGBT mods have been directly modding LGBT people and that is simple not true, at least from the moment I arrived.

I am simply proposing mods be LGBT on an LGBT forum. I don't see why this is even being debated. It is clear, even from the few replies here, that non-LGBT people lack the insight needed, and I will state, again, as one of the only active transpeople on Boards: I am deeply uncomfortable with this latest development.

I may have disagreed with JoeytheParrot on many things, but I did not doubt for one second he had a better understanding of Trans issues than most on Boards - and I seriously question the ability of mods like Big Bag to do the same. I don't care how much of an ally claims to be either.

JackTaylorFan

dudara wrote: »

JTF - if I took that logic and extrapolated it, then people who were not impacted by same-sex marriage should not have been allowed vote in the referendum etc.

I'm sorry, that is a total false equivalency.

And just to add:

The very fact that you think a lot of straight people deserve a lollipop for agreeing that gay people should finally have legally recognized marriages says a lot.

Just to put into perspective where we are at: A total of 1,201,607 people (62.1%) voted Yes and 734,300 (37.9%) voted No. Now, consider the amount of acceptance there is in our society for gay marriage compared to health care t=for trans people. I guarantee those Yes numbers would be nowhere near as high.

imme

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

With all due respect, I totally disagree. As a trans person I feel highly uncomfortable with a non-LGBT person modding important trans issues they haven't got the first clue about. It's bad enough we only have one gay man - and up till recently - a lesbian modding the forum. There apparently is a another mod, but they have not been active in so long, they are literally redundant.

Trans people are not protected properly on that thread. The charter needs a serious update in what is considered harassment too. I honestly believe that LGB people are subjected to a ton of ridiculous trolling as well, but as for one of you guys to speak up about out.

As a member of the T part of the community, I am absolutely disgusted with the way that forum is handling non-LGBT trolling it would be like going down to my local LGBT centre and being confronted by a load of straight people telling me I owe them explanations for my existence, all the while being ignorant and offensive and ignoring anything I say. While they offered tea by non-lgbt members of staff at the centre.

That's the level the forum is at..

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine😀

JackTaylorFan

Will I Am Not wrote: »

I’m not but have about the same rights as you on the running of that forum. Zero.

You're not. Cool. You have literally nothing invested in this debate then. I do.

JackTaylorFan

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It was an observation not an attack. One that I, an I imagine a lot more here, agree with.

Nah, it was by very definition: ad hominem. And the fact the mods allowed it says everything, really. It was completely off-topic. It was also wrong. I have been supportive to what I consider genuine transpeople's cries for help. Just a recent example: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057893811

JackTaylorFan

imme wrote: »

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine😀

Yep. Agreed.